England forward pack as things stand

[Scrumhead]

Earl has featured heavily for Sarries this season and has been great.

They’ve also rotated a lot so I don’t think it’s a case of the team making him look good.

Not really fair to judge him on a couple of short cameos for England.

I see him as having similar qualities to Simmonds but a bit more size. He’s got great pace, he’s good at the breakdown and he’s a physical defender. There’s a lot to like about him.

And that’s coming from a Quins fan.

[Scrumhead]

We haven’t discussed the locks that much and as some others have said, this might be the area where we see the most changes.

Itoje is surely a shoo-in, but for various reasons the other three locks we’ve generally been able to rely on (Kruis, Launchbury and Lawes) May not be in the picture for much longer.

Launchbury has experience, is reliably good and is young enough to comfortably make it to 2023 but for whatever reason he’s never had much of a run under Eddie. Kruis looks like he’s off to Japan and whether Lawes can maintain his current level as Father Time catches up is yet to be seen.

Ewels is decent but probably no more than that. I’ve seen him have some good games for England (notably on the Argentina tour) but he’s never really been a serious challenger to the main group and I think he’s a step down on all of them.

Beyond that, we’re looking a bit thin on the ground ...

Isiekwe dropped out of favour post SA tour and has never really got back in to Eddie’s favour despite playing well for Sarries. I rate him as a better all round player than Ewels.

Moon has looked promising for Saints IMO. His style of play reminds me quite lot of Launchbury but importantly, he’s a self-confessed lineout geek which could be very useful in replacing Kruis.

Stooke has been around the fringes of the squad and while I think he’s really kicked on in the last couple of seasons, I’m not sure he’s someone I can see really making it at test level.

I’m not sure on some of the other options? Kpoku seems to have all the goods without having really seized his opportunity yet and I think it’s too soon for the likes of Coles.

I know Martin is very highly rated at Tigers so if he progresses as expected, he could well come in to the frame quite early, as Itoje did. Any others to really keep an eye on?

[Oakboy]

Hill!

[Mellsblue]

With Ted Hill at blindside and Richard Hill on the back room staff, we’d definitely have Hills to pay the bills.

[Stom]

I like Ewels. If we hadn't been so well blessed for locks, he'd have been a cert. He'd walk into the Wales or Scotland teams. Australia, too, for that matter.

Hill is decent, but no more than that, in my eyes. Worth having there while others develop, but unless he suddenly finds another gear (possible), I think he'll just be an also-ran.

Along with Martin, both Quins locks, Hammond and Tizard, have looked decent for the u20s. I think we've got a few good locks coming through, with Coles, Moon, and Kpoku.

[fivepointer]

David Ribbans is very good. His injury record is a bit concerning but he ticks a lot of other boxes.

[Scrumhead]

I didn’t rate Hill when I first saw him for the U20s but I’ve been really impressed by him for Worcester.

He’s massively physical both as a carrier and as a defender and is already an accomplished lineout forward as well as having a good turn on pace. I’m going to stick my neck out here and say I think he’s going to become a truly elite player. Basically a grittier Tom Croft.

[Banquo]

I didn’t rate Hill when I first saw him for the U20s but I’ve been really impressed by him for Worcester.

He’s massively physical both as a carrier and as a defender and is already an accomplished lineout forward as well as having a good turn on pace. I’m going to stick my neck out here and say I think he’s going to become a truly elite player. Basically a grittier Tom Croft.

The Hills are alive. Think Stom was talking about Jonny.

[Timbo]

Yeah, Ted Hill is an immense talent in my eyes. Despite playing all his club rugby at 6 Eddie is the type to throw him in at second row if he’s not totally convinced by the other young options.

I would guess that the next crop will come from Isiekwe, Kpoku, Moon, Hill or Ribbands. A lot will just depend on being fit and in form at the right time to take an opportunity.

[twitchy]

It will be interesting to see what happens with hinkley at exe. Obviously a way down the pecking order but promising.

[Stom]

I didn’t rate Hill when I first saw him for the U20s but I’ve been really impressed by him for Worcester.

He’s massively physical both as a carrier and as a defender and is already an accomplished lineout forward as well as having a good turn on pace. I’m going to stick my neck out here and say I think he’s going to become a truly elite player. Basically a grittier Tom Croft.

The Hills are alive. Think Stom was talking about Jonny.

I was indeed. Ted Hill is far from an also ran. He’d be first choice 6 by now if we weren’t so well stocked there. A very impressive player in how he’s stepped up.

[Scrumhead]

Yeah. Makes sense now.

Johnny Hill does seem to have bulked up a bit though which looked to have improved his carrying quite a bit. Certainly not a bad 6th choice in comparison to a lot of the other home nations’ locks.

[Banquo]

Yeah. Makes sense now.

Johnny Hill does seem to have bulked up a bit though which looked to have improved his carrying quite a bit. Certainly not a bad 6th choice in comparison to a lot of the other home nations’ locks.

agreed he is ok

[Mikey Brown]

I didn’t rate Hill when I first saw him for the U20s but I’ve been really impressed by him for Worcester.

He’s massively physical both as a carrier and as a defender and is already an accomplished lineout forward as well as having a good turn on pace. I’m going to stick my neck out here and say I think he’s going to become a truly elite player. Basically a grittier Tom Croft.

The Hills are alive. Think Stom was talking about Jonny.

I was indeed. Ted Hill is far from an also ran. He’d be first choice 6 by now if we weren’t so well stocked there. A very impressive player in how he’s stepped up.

Interesting to hear so many in here saying similar. I haven’t watched him much at all recently and thought he was still considered a ‘project’ rather than a top player.

It would be great if there’s another rock of a player like him that can fill in at 6 if Wilson can’t go the distance. Assuming EJ even goes back to Wilson at 6, which I feel he should.

[Banquo]

The Hills are alive. Think Stom was talking about Jonny.

I was indeed. Ted Hill is far from an also ran. He’d be first choice 6 by now if we weren’t so well stocked there. A very impressive player in how he’s stepped up.

Interesting to hear so many in here saying similar. I haven’t watched him much at all recently and thought he was still considered a ‘project’ rather than a top player.

It would be great if there’s another rock of a player like him that can fill in at 6 if Wilson can’t go the distance. Assuming EJ even goes back to Wilson at 6, which I feel he should.

Not that I disagree, but which of Curry and Underhill do you then play at 7?

[Mikey Brown]

I was indeed. Ted Hill is far from an also ran. He’d be first choice 6 by now if we weren’t so well stocked there. A very impressive player in how he’s stepped up.

Interesting to hear so many in here saying similar. I haven’t watched him much at all recently and thought he was still considered a ‘project’ rather than a top player.

It would be great if there’s another rock of a player like him that can fill in at 6 if Wilson can’t go the distance. Assuming EJ even goes back to Wilson at 6, which I feel he should.

Not that I disagree, but which of Curry and Underhill do you then play at 7?

I'm very happy with either in the starting XV, but I just want a proper 6. I guess I'd bench Underhill. I don't know if his talents are suited to a mega 20/25 minute blast of intensity off the bench, it's not always that simple, but that could be a real weapon if so.

To be honest, If we're finding that they are all consistently fit and available then I really won't complain about whatever flanker (!) configuration we get. Has EJ got any more curveballs in his locker?

[Stom]

Interesting to hear so many in here saying similar. I haven’t watched him much at all recently and thought he was still considered a ‘project’ rather than a top player.

It would be great if there’s another rock of a player like him that can fill in at 6 if Wilson can’t go the distance. Assuming EJ even goes back to Wilson at 6, which I feel he should.

Not that I disagree, but which of Curry and Underhill do you then play at 7?

I'm very happy with either in the starting XV, but I just want a proper 6. I guess I'd bench Underhill. I don't know if his talents are suited to a mega 20/25 minute blast of intensity off the bench, it's not always that simple, but that could be a real weapon if so.

To be honest, If we're finding that they are all consistently fit and available then I really won't complain about whatever flanker (!) configuration we get. Has EJ got any more curveballs in his locker?

Yeah, I’d be quite happy with rotation, just like Clive did. We saw a lot of Moody with one of the Holy Trinity missing out. No reason we can’t do the same.

I do feel like underhill would be the man to miss out once the likes of hill and Willis get up to speed.

[Mikey Brown]

I generally think yes. But then I think about the NZ semi-final. He was like the fucking terminator.

[Stom]

I generally think yes. But then I think about the NZ semi-final. He was like the fucking terminator.

Oh, he absolutely can be.

But so could Joe Worsley...

[jngf]

I like Ewels. If we hadn't been so well blessed for locks, he'd have been a cert. He'd walk into the Wales or Scotland teams. Australia, too, for that matter.

Really struggling to see that - does Ewels have a single USP for a test level lock? (Other than being Curry’s understudy at no.8? )

[Mikey Brown]

I generally think yes. But then I think about the NZ semi-final. He was like the fucking terminator.

Oh, he absolutely can be.

But so could Joe Worsley...

I don't think Underhill is anywhere near as 1 dimensional as is if often made out. I've never seen Joe Worsley play like that at international level.

[jngf]

Not that I disagree, but which of Curry and Underhill do you then play at 7?

I'm very happy with either in the starting XV, but I just want a proper 6. I guess I'd bench Underhill. I don't know if his talents are suited to a mega 20/25 minute blast of intensity off the bench, it's not always that simple, but that could be a real weapon if so.

To be honest, If we're finding that they are all consistently fit and available then I really won't complain about whatever flanker (!) configuration we get. Has EJ got any more curveballs in his locker?

Yeah, I’d be quite happy with rotation, just like Clive did. We saw a lot of Moody with one of the Holy Trinity missing out. No reason we can’t do the same.

I do feel like underhill would be the man to miss out once the likes of hill and Willis get up to speed.

Whilst he’s be no means an out and out openside imo, I think if he stays fit, Underhill’s defence makes him pretty well undroppable. There’s a precedent for this going back a few decades, in the early 90’s Andy Robinson and the (early version) Neil Back might both have had a fair claim to be to be considered the best out and out opensides in England, but Peter Winterbottom’s defence was such an X factor that meant he was first choice and undroppable.

[Puja]

I'm very happy with either in the starting XV, but I just want a proper 6. I guess I'd bench Underhill. I don't know if his talents are suited to a mega 20/25 minute blast of intensity off the bench, it's not always that simple, but that could be a real weapon if so.

To be honest, If we're finding that they are all consistently fit and available then I really won't complain about whatever flanker (!) configuration we get. Has EJ got any more curveballs in his locker?

Yeah, I’d be quite happy with rotation, just like Clive did. We saw a lot of Moody with one of the Holy Trinity missing out. No reason we can’t do the same.

I do feel like underhill would be the man to miss out once the likes of hill and Willis get up to speed.

Whilst he’s be no means an out and out openside imo, I think if he stays fit, Underhill’s defence makes him pretty well undroppable. There’s a precedent for this going back a few decades, in the early 90’s Andy Robinson and the (early version) Neil Back might both have had a fair claim to be to be considered the best out and out opensides in England, but Peter Winterbottom’s defence was such an X factor that meant he was first choice and undroppable.

I'd say horses for courses. In some games, we will need both a 7 who specialises in defence, others we will rely on the 6 to be the tackling machine. I wouldn't say that having a defensive specialist at 7 is a priority all of the time.

Puja

[Scrumhead]

I'm very happy with either in the starting XV, but I just want a proper 6. I guess I'd bench Underhill. I don't know if his talents are suited to a mega 20/25 minute blast of intensity off the bench, it's not always that simple, but that could be a real weapon if so.

To be honest, If we're finding that they are all consistently fit and available then I really won't complain about whatever flanker (!) configuration we get. Has EJ got any more curveballs in his locker?

Yeah, I’d be quite happy with rotation, just like Clive did. We saw a lot of Moody with one of the Holy Trinity missing out. No reason we can’t do the same.

I do feel like underhill would be the man to miss out once the likes of hill and Willis get up to speed.

Whilst he’s be no means an out and out openside imo, I think if he stays fit, Underhill’s defence makes him pretty well undroppable. There’s a precedent for this going back a few decades, in the early 90’s Andy Robinson and the (early version) Neil Back might both have had a fair claim to be to be considered the best out and out opensides in England, but Peter Winterbottom’s defence was such an X factor that meant he was first choice and undroppable.

I think it’s unfair to label Underhill as purely a defensive specialist. His destructive tackling is his stand out skill but in addition to that, he’s very good at securing our attacking ball and not a bad carrier either. I just think Curry is a better all rounder who offers more in attack without a significant drop off in defence.

[jngf]

Yeah, I’d be quite happy with rotation, just like Clive did. We saw a lot of Moody with one of the Holy Trinity missing out. No reason we can’t do the same.

I do feel like underhill would be the man to miss out once the likes of hill and Willis get up to speed.

Whilst he’s be no means an out and out openside imo, I think if he stays fit, Underhill’s defence makes him pretty well undroppable. There’s a precedent for this going back a few decades, in the early 90’s Andy Robinson and the (early version) Neil Back might both have had a fair claim to be to be considered the best out and out opensides in England, but Peter Winterbottom’s defence was such an X factor that meant he was first choice and undroppable.

I think it’s unfair to label Underhill as purely a defensive specialist. His destructive tackling is his stand out skill but in addition to that, he’s very good at securing our attacking ball and not a bad carrier either. I just think Curry is a better all rounder who offers more in attack without a significant drop off in defence.

I would certainly say Curry’s much more of a linkman than Underhill and that Underhill’s the more powerful ball carrier (and hope this aspect of his game can be used more) - this is where I disagree with Mitchell whose described Curry as having the bigger carrying game of the two - and this was used as a justification for Curry rather than Underhill moving to 6. To be fair, Lawes has probably demonstrated the best back row carrying we’ve seen recently (not that I would start him at 6).