RugbyRebels

morepork wrote:Jesus the effective pick and go when right on the line is hard to counter when you are, you know, defending the line. Shirley a coach should be able to put forward a plan to keep them down the other end? Do Exeter win all their games like that?

The pick and go as done now with 1 carrier and two players pre bound one of which is nigh on in-front of the ball may well be outlawed from the game. If you look at the World Rugby regs that came out about the "new" old laws to be actually applied to the breakdown there are 7 sections, number 7 isnt there(well it wasnt the last time I looked a few weeks ago so no doubt someone will prove me wrong haha) that section regards the pick and go, apparently WR are concerned about player welfare as essentially it is 3 v 1 with no chance of a fair contest at the breakdown either due to the player who is nigh on in-front of the ball carrier and therefore sealing off the ball. That came from someone who is on the panel that looked at the breakdown issues.

hmm...

It does seem to me that any part of the game that is pretty much unstoppable when done well should be looked at with regards to outlawing it. So I'm kinda happy about that.

The maul is another area that's got ridiculous again.

But if they're going to change any part of the law, it should be to clamp down on flying into rucks. They're dangerous, they can easily lead to sealing off...

Stom wrote:I think Luke looks like a perfectly good player.

But, I mean...

Malins does everything he does, but better.

So does Daly, for that matter.

So does Slade, for that matter.

Hell, I reckon if he'd been played in those positions, Marchant would.

He just seems like a "meh" player to me. Very good but not international standard. Alex Goode standard.

Seen Goode sort of dismissed twice like this now, and whilst I’ve never been a fan at intl level, he’s been a fantastic club player, both domestically and in the European comps. He’s very skilful and positionally excellent. Not a meh player tbh, if any of those compared to him - including Malins- have anything like his career and achievements, they’d have done very well and could look proudly back on their careers.

Banquo wrote:

Stom wrote:I think Luke looks like a perfectly good player.

But, I mean...

Malins does everything he does, but better.

So does Daly, for that matter.

So does Slade, for that matter.

Hell, I reckon if he'd been played in those positions, Marchant would.

He just seems like a "meh" player to me. Very good but not international standard. Alex Goode standard.

Seen Goode sort of dismissed twice like this now, and whilst I’ve never been a fan at intl level, he’s been a fantastic club player, both domestically and in the European comps. He’s very skilful and positionally excellent. Not a meh player tbh, if any of those compared to him - including Malins- have anything like his career and achievements, they’d have done very well and could look proudly back on their careers.

OK, let me rephrase as I was not denigrating Goode.

For me, meh is just someone who does everything to a high standard...but nothing to a high enough standard to, well, stand out.

Goode was a very good reader of the game. But not as good as the best. He could kick long and accurately, but not as long nor as accurately as the best. He could pass to a high standard off both hands, but not as well as the best. He lacked top end pace, his tackling was...not good enough...

I simply meant that James is probably of that level where he'll make an excellent club player but not really have enough "x-factor" to step up to internationals. Because you need something more up there.

Stom wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Stom wrote:I think Luke looks like a perfectly good player.

But, I mean...

Malins does everything he does, but better.

So does Daly, for that matter.

So does Slade, for that matter.

Hell, I reckon if he'd been played in those positions, Marchant would.

He just seems like a "meh" player to me. Very good but not international standard. Alex Goode standard.

Seen Goode sort of dismissed twice like this now, and whilst I’ve never been a fan at intl level, he’s been a fantastic club player, both domestically and in the European comps. He’s very skilful and positionally excellent. Not a meh player tbh, if any of those compared to him - including Malins- have anything like his career and achievements, they’d have done very well and could look proudly back on their careers.

OK, let me rephrase as I was not denigrating Goode.

For me, meh is just someone who does everything to a high standard...but nothing to a high enough standard to, well, stand out.

Goode was a very good reader of the game. But not as good as the best. He could kick long and accurately, but not as long nor as accurately as the best. He could pass to a high standard off both hands, but not as well as the best. He lacked top end pace, his tackling was...not good enough...

I simply meant that James is probably of that level where he'll make an excellent club player but not really have enough "x-factor" to step up to internationals. Because you need something more up there.

His positional play is somewhat underrated as you’ve just shown. I’d think his handling and kicking were as good as most. He did lack top end pace, and tackling was poor. I just think when all is said and done he’s been one of the most influential club players domestically and in Europe for many years, and his skills and achievements are easily dismissed, and have been notably so in the last couple of days. Most players would love a career as good as his- and having a rounded skill set as strong as his is a differentiator in its own right, btw.

Never thought I’d be defending his honour, as never supported him as an England player. But as outstanding club players go....

It's interesting to read about players who may or may not make the grade. If we rule out foreign imports with next to no club background like Shields, what is Jones's record for trying and rejecting players?

There are quite a few that have had a rew minutes and could claim insufficient trial time. But, has Jones rejected that many after a decent amount of game time because they turned out to be not good enough at the top level? I'm no fan of his but I'd guess that he is up there with most head coaches in not doing that. The Exeter props Moon and Williams, for example, played only because others ahead of them in the pecking order were injured. You could make similar cases for the likes of Francis and Roko.

Who were Jones's real mistakes (those that he DID select)?

Burrell, Harrison?

Still don't feel shields was as bad as many wanted him to be, but wouldn't argue that he should be in the team.

Banquo wrote:

Stom wrote:

Banquo wrote: Seen Goode sort of dismissed twice like this now, and whilst I’ve never been a fan at intl level, he’s been a fantastic club player, both domestically and in the European comps. He’s very skilful and positionally excellent. Not a meh player tbh, if any of those compared to him - including Malins- have anything like his career and achievements, they’d have done very well and could look proudly back on their careers.

OK, let me rephrase as I was not denigrating Goode.

For me, meh is just someone who does everything to a high standard...but nothing to a high enough standard to, well, stand out.

Goode was a very good reader of the game. But not as good as the best. He could kick long and accurately, but not as long nor as accurately as the best. He could pass to a high standard off both hands, but not as well as the best. He lacked top end pace, his tackling was...not good enough...

I simply meant that James is probably of that level where he'll make an excellent club player but not really have enough "x-factor" to step up to internationals. Because you need something more up there.

His positional play is somewhat underrated as you’ve just shown. I’d think his handling and kicking were as good as most. He did lack top end pace, and tackling was poor. I just think when all is said and done he’s been one of the most influential club players domestically and in Europe for many years, and his skills and achievements are easily dismissed, and have been notably so in the last couple of days. Most players would love a career as good as his- and having a rounded skill set as strong as his is a differentiator in its own right, btw.

Never thought I’d be defending his honour, as never supported him as an England player. But as outstanding club players go....

His biggest issues were, as you've already noted, top end pace and tackling. The rest of his game was, and still is, mint. A seriously good player.

Doorzetbornandbred wrote: The pick and go as done now with 1 carrier and two players pre bound one of which is nigh on in-front of the ball may well be outlawed from the game. If you look at the World Rugby regs that came out about the "new" old laws to be actually applied to the breakdown there are 7 sections, number 7 isnt there(well it wasnt the last time I looked a few weeks ago so no doubt someone will prove me wrong haha) that section regards the pick and go, apparently WR are concerned about player welfare as essentially it is 3 v 1 with no chance of a fair contest at the breakdown either due to the player who is nigh on in-front of the ball carrier and therefore sealing off the ball. That came from someone who is on the panel that looked at the breakdown issues.

I'd always felt that it was one of things that was already outlawed, like the hit, or feeding at the Scrum, or holding onto players on their side of the ruck. It was just roundly ignored as teams gradually became more and more blatant about it.
My recollection was that the flying wedge was banned from the game in the 90s, with the law banning pre-binding, regardless of numbers.

Stom wrote:hmm...

It does seem to me that any part of the game that is pretty much unstoppable when done well should be looked at with regards to outlawing it. So I'm kinda happy about that.

The maul is another area that's got ridiculous again.

But if they're going to change any part of the law, it should be to clamp down on flying into rucks. They're dangerous, they can easily lead to sealing off...

Epaminondas Pules wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Stom wrote:
OK, let me rephrase as I was not denigrating Goode.

For me, meh is just someone who does everything to a high standard...but nothing to a high enough standard to, well, stand out.

Goode was a very good reader of the game. But not as good as the best. He could kick long and accurately, but not as long nor as accurately as the best. He could pass to a high standard off both hands, but not as well as the best. He lacked top end pace, his tackling was...not good enough...

I simply meant that James is probably of that level where he'll make an excellent club player but not really have enough "x-factor" to step up to internationals. Because you need something more up there.

His positional play is somewhat underrated as you’ve just shown. I’d think his handling and kicking were as good as most. He did lack top end pace, and tackling was poor. I just think when all is said and done he’s been one of the most influential club players domestically and in Europe for many years, and his skills and achievements are easily dismissed, and have been notably so in the last couple of days. Most players would love a career as good as his- and having a rounded skill set as strong as his is a differentiator in its own right, btw.

Never thought I’d be defending his honour, as never supported him as an England player. But as outstanding club players go....

His biggest issues were, as you've already noted, top end pace and tackling. The rest of his game was, and still is, mint. A seriously good player.

Agreed.
I didn’t want him as 15 for England but he’s top of the tier just below test rugby, for me. I wish he’d stayed at 10 as I think he’d easily be test quality in that position. The fact he could play 10 for Sarries at the drop of a hat and look like he always played there says it all, I think. Goode at 10 was a central part of my master plan to get Bedford ‘back’ to the top of English rugby.

Mellsblue wrote:

Epaminondas Pules wrote:

Banquo wrote: His positional play is somewhat underrated as you’ve just shown. I’d think his handling and kicking were as good as most. He did lack top end pace, and tackling was poor. I just think when all is said and done he’s been one of the most influential club players domestically and in Europe for many years, and his skills and achievements are easily dismissed, and have been notably so in the last couple of days. Most players would love a career as good as his- and having a rounded skill set as strong as his is a differentiator in its own right, btw.

Never thought I’d be defending his honour, as never supported him as an England player. But as outstanding club players go....

His biggest issues were, as you've already noted, top end pace and tackling. The rest of his game was, and still is, mint. A seriously good player.

Agreed.
I didn’t want him as 15 for England but he’s top of the tier just below test rugby, for me. I wish he’d stayed at 10 as I think he’d easily be test quality in that position. The fact he could play 10 for Sarries at the drop of a hat and look like he always played there says it all, I think. Goode at 10 was a central part of my master plan to get Bedford ‘back’ to the top of English rugby.

Agreed on all fronts.

Steady on, when were Bedford ever at the top of English rugby?

Ask Banquo. He agreed on all fronts.

Digby wrote:Steady on, when were Bedford ever at the top of English rugby?

60’s and 70’s. You youngsters need to take heed of history. Won the top prize in 1975.

Banquo wrote:

Digby wrote:Steady on, when were Bedford ever at the top of English rugby?

60’s and 70’s. You youngsters need to take heed of history. Won the top prize in 1975.

Ever since they've had the blues.









Ooh, is that my coat? Best be off, curfew and all that.

Dors may well remember when Bedford played the All Blacks....

Did the ABs arrive by steam ship?

morepork wrote:Did the ABs arrive by steam ship?

Shup and yes

Banquo wrote:

Digby wrote:Steady on, when were Bedford ever at the top of English rugby?

60’s and 70’s. You youngsters need to take heed of history. Won the top prize in 1975.

The top prize in a series of random ad-hoc games? Though I will confess to not learning much about rugby games taking place before I was born

Banquo wrote:Dors may well remember when Bedford played the All Blacks....

Cheeky sod. I had to google it:

Bedford v New Zealand
15th November 1905 at Goldinton Road. Won by the All Blacks 41-0 with a record attendance of 6,000.

Digby wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Digby wrote:Steady on, when were Bedford ever at the top of English rugby?

60’s and 70’s. You youngsters need to take heed of history. Won the top prize in 1975.

The top prize in a series of random ad-hoc games? Though I will confess to not learning much about rugby games taking place before I was born

No, in a knockout cup. Wouldn’t have taken much to educate yourself.

Banquo wrote:

morepork wrote:Did the ABs arrive by steam ship?

Shup and yes

Imagine the All Black’s excitement as they first saw the U.K. whilst standing on the captain’s dick.

Mellsblue wrote: Imagine the All Black’s excitement as they first saw the U.K. whilst standing on the captain’s dick.

Imagine the trip over was pretty rowdy but that seems uncalled for.....

jimKRFC wrote:

Mellsblue wrote: Imagine the All Black’s excitement as they first saw the U.K. whilst standing on the captain’s dick.

Imagine the trip over was pretty rowdy but that seems uncalled for.....

Trup over.