RugbyRebels

its?

Digby wrote:its?

The fundamental question is, "What happens if we lose to France?"

Oakboy wrote:The fundamental question is, "What happens if we lose to France?"

we will probably finish fifth.

Banquo wrote:

Oakboy wrote:The fundamental question is, "What happens if we lose to France?"

we will probably finish fifth.

OK, what happens if we then lose to Ireland as well? I just can't believe Jones is still in the job after the two defeats so far. Nobody sees it as a major crisis so I was just wondering what is!!!!

Losing next 2 games plus the Autumn tests against Australia and SA. Lose them and i think we have a crisis even if we do well in North America in the summer with a heavily depleted squad.

fivepointer wrote:Losing next 2 games plus the Autumn tests against Australia and SA. Lose them and i think we have a crisis even if we do well in North America in the summer with a heavily depleted squad.

To coin a phrase from some 40 odd years back “Crisis, what crisis?”

Oakboy wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Oakboy wrote:The fundamental question is, "What happens if we lose to France?"

we will probably finish fifth.

OK, what happens if we then lose to Ireland as well? I just can't believe Jones is still in the job after the two defeats so far. Nobody sees it as a major crisis so I was just wondering what is!!!!

Just to clarify, you can't believe that the RFU have not already summarily dismissed their expensive and highly rated coach who has a track record of success including 3 6N titles, a RWC final, and the number 1 ranking spot for the first time since 2004, because we lost two games in quick succession? Wind your neck in!

Puja

Puja wrote:

Oakboy wrote:

Banquo wrote: we will probably finish fifth.

OK, what happens if we then lose to Ireland as well? I just can't believe Jones is still in the job after the two defeats so far. Nobody sees it as a major crisis so I was just wondering what is!!!!

Just to clarify, you can't believe that the RFU have not already summarily dismissed their expensive and highly rated coach who has a track record of success including 3 6N titles, a RWC final, and the number 1 ranking spot for the first time since 2004, because we lost two games in quick succession? Wind your neck in!

Puja

That's a bit rude for a mod, Puja, isn't it?

After 15 years on this board I don't see why I can't ask questions about England's head coach when England have just had defeats against Scotland and Wales. What happens when we play a good team?

Ah. The arrogant English.

That's right my pretties....eat each other....we will have no more knocking out of other teams in world cups. Back to normal service now please.

Oakboy wrote:[After 15 years on this board I don't see why I can't ask questions about England's head coach when England have just had defeats against Scotland and Wales. What happens when we play a good team?

I'd assume that you can.
I do wonder how many times each day you need to say the same thing though - after all, it is getting more tiresome, and far more frequent, than JNGF talking the backrow

Oakboy wrote:

Puja wrote:

Oakboy wrote:
OK, what happens if we then lose to Ireland as well? I just can't believe Jones is still in the job after the two defeats so far. Nobody sees it as a major crisis so I was just wondering what is!!!!

Just to clarify, you can't believe that the RFU have not already summarily dismissed their expensive and highly rated coach who has a track record of success including 3 6N titles, a RWC final, and the number 1 ranking spot for the first time since 2004, because we lost two games in quick succession? Wind your neck in!

Puja

That's a bit rude for a mod, Puja, isn't it?

After 15 years on this board I don't see why I can't ask questions about England's head coach when England have just had defeats against Scotland and Wales. What happens when we play a good team?

You can certainly ask questions and I'm far from saying that you're wrong (I'm certainly far less likely than I was when you were singing this tune a month ago!). It just tickled me that you couldn't believe he hadn't been fired after two whole defeats.

Puja

Honestly one of the worst things about an England defeat is the inevitable aftermath of days and days of Oakboy’s tiresome anti-Eddie agenda.

Scrumhead wrote:Honestly one of the worst things about an England defeat is the inevitable aftermath of days and days of Oakboy’s tiresome anti-Eddie agenda.

An England defeat? We got it after England victories too.

I've only been complaining (probably whining at times) since 2003 about our rugby. Though what Eddie is doing whilst I might not like it rarely makes so little sense you wonder how he's got the job, Woodward towards the end, Robinson, Ashton and Burt were just very weird, Johnson was almost okay but lurched around making too many changes under pressure, to selection and tactics.

Woodward came only at just the right time for me as an England fan. I liked the wins of the early 90s 'cause I was just a kid who liked England winning, but by the mid90s I was bored of watching England and might simply have stopped but for the fun of Woodworms early years, and some of the craziness, that first ever England XV picked by Clive remains comedy gold. So I suppose its arguable Clive came along at just the wrong time 'cause I'd have been spared 2 decades of thinking there's a better way to do this that's more fun into the bargain

It’s funny, I, and one or two others, used to get told to stop banging on that Lancaster was out of his depth until, well, he showed he was out of his depth.
Most of us on this board have banged on about Farrell not being the messiah, an anti-Farrell agenda perhaps, when any objective observer would wonder what a bunch of nobodies on an internet message board knew compared to Gatland, Woodward, Warburton etc.
Jones has shown many failings in the last 18 months and Oakboy/Dors is clearly effing frustrated by them. Tbh, so am I, I just don’t see an obvious replacement and am willing to give him slightly longer to turn it round. Tbh, again, if anyone thinks the trajectory of this team is any thing better than horizontal since the RWC then I think you’re delusional.
I could name quite a few people on here who piss me off with their style of posting, their ‘agenda’ etc, and I’m sure many think the same about me, but ultimately it’s a bunch of nobodies giving an opinion on a sport. Ignore, mute, mock or argue your point but don’t whinge.

Call it whinging if you like, but it is very tedious ... I’d like to think at regularly debate, but sometimes some posters have a single viewpoint they simply will not deviate from and I don’t really understand the mentality of people revelling in England losing because they don’t ‘like’ Eddie Jones.

I hope my opinion on our recent form has come across clearly. If not, to reiterate, I hate the way we’ve played in most of the games since the World Cup and I’d say that describing the team’s recent trajectory as ‘horizontal’ is kind. However, we’ve had a slump under Eddie before and came back very strongly. I think at the very least, he deserves the chance to show he can put us back on the right track.

I actually quite like some of the rugby we've played this 6N when we've actually played. It's the not playing bits which so frustrate.

One other, and it's nigh on impossible to get a read on this, is where Eddie thinks the squad are physically at this point, and what the plans are to improve that post the jamboree, or ideally instead of the jamboree. There are lots of comments on fitness, but the trouble there is coaches tend to accidentally not tell the truth in the media.

Perhaps we've flogged the players and they're once again played tired, perhaps we've yet to flog them so they're behind where they could be accepting you cannot always flog them, or perhaps they're perfectly poised to deliver, if the last our performances coming on weak at the end are a bigger concern so I suspect (hope) it's one of the first two.

Only natural to question the leadership when the team falters. Since the WC our form has been sketchy to say the least, and its perfectly fair to point that out.
18 months is quite a long time for us to treading water, or on a horizontal plane.
That concerns me.
Jones' record, which on the whole is very good over his tenure, shouldnt be ignored so he does have credit in the bank.
I think we could all do with a confidence inducing, emphatic performance quite soon.

Mellsblue wrote:It’s funny, I, and one or two others, used to get told to stop banging on that Lancaster was out of his depth until, well, he showed he was out of his depth.
Most of us on this board have banged on about Farrell not being the messiah, an anti-Farrell agenda perhaps, when any objective observer would wonder what a bunch of nobodies on an internet message board knew compared to Gatland, Woodward, Warburton etc.
Jones has shown many failings in the last 18 months and Oakboy/Dors is clearly effing frustrated by them. Tbh, so am I, I just don’t see an obvious replacement and am willing to give him slightly longer to turn it round. Tbh, again, if anyone thinks the trajectory of this team is any thing better than horizontal since the RWC then I think you’re delusional.
I could name quite a few people on here who piss me off with their style of posting, their ‘agenda’ etc, and I’m sure many think the same about me, but ultimately it’s a bunch of nobodies giving an opinion on a sport. Ignore, mute, mock or argue your point but don’t whinge.

It's not the opinion itself, or the strength of that opinion - it's the frequency of expressing it. As with any opinion, telling everyone several times a day, for several years... it gets wearing.

For reference - I was simply having a chuckle at the incredulity that the RFU had not sacked Jones after his second defeat. People on this board are allowed to repeat opinions ad nauseam if they like.

Mod

So, forget my opinion, let's just set out the facts:

1. Since the RWC SF, there has been one quality performance (v France this 6N).

2. Ignoring Italy as mere cannon-fodder, in the latest competition, we have won one game out of four - a 25% success rate.

121 pts conceded. A 6N's record. Plus 67 penalties conceded.

Its been pretty bad. One standout performance against France cannot hide the fact that we've been off the pace.

fivepointer wrote:121 pts conceded. A 6N's record. Plus 67 penalties conceded.

Its been pretty bad. One standout performance against France cannot hide the fact that we've been off the pace.

I've held back, but its worse than that. There is a fundamental set of problems with the playing personnel imo. I think its about collective rugby intelligence as much as anything.