RugbyRebels

cashead wrote: ↑Mon Oct 30, 2023 9:49 pm Well, you know what doesn't make you look like a bunch of bloodthirsty shitheels? Not taking random civilians hostage and not killing them. Especially the part in Italics.

How does killing Shani Louk help?

cashead wrote: ↑Sun Nov 05, 2023 10:08 am Seriously though, fuck Hamas. Hard to look good when you rock up to a music concert and then just start living out that Frank Reynolds meme from IASIP.


Also fucking lol at that video they put out. "Look at how good we are to the hostages!" Shit off, you absolute fucks.

Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Sat Nov 04, 2023 5:15 pm A lot of people in Trafalgar Square. I just got back:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67320715

Should be bigger next week though.

“Our message to organisers is clear: please, we ask you to urgently reconsider. It is not appropriate to hold any protests in London this weekend.”

“The hate marchers need to understand that decent British people have had enough of these displays of thuggish intimidation and extremism.”

Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 07, 2023 11:19 am

Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Sat Nov 04, 2023 5:15 pm A lot of people in Trafalgar Square. I just got back:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67320715

Should be bigger next week though.

The Police:

“Our message to organisers is clear: please, we ask you to urgently reconsider. It is not appropriate to hold any protests in London this weekend.”

Suella Braverman:

“The hate marchers need to understand that decent British people have had enough of these displays of thuggish intimidation and extremism.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/ ... -in-london

It seems that, in the view of the Government, a march calling for peace is contradictory to the sentiment of Remembrance Day.

Puja wrote: ↑Tue Nov 07, 2023 11:40 am

Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 07, 2023 11:19 am

Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Sat Nov 04, 2023 5:15 pm A lot of people in Trafalgar Square. I just got back:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67320715

Should be bigger next week though.

The Police:

“Our message to organisers is clear: please, we ask you to urgently reconsider. It is not appropriate to hold any protests in London this weekend.”

Suella Braverman:

“The hate marchers need to understand that decent British people have had enough of these displays of thuggish intimidation and extremism.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/ ... -in-london

It seems that, in the view of the Government, a march calling for peace is contradictory to the sentiment of Remembrance Day.

Braverman really is a human bag of dog shit, isn't she? A walking, talking, Sun headline, with about as much depth to her. I never thought anyone could be more spiteful and hate-filled than Priti Patel, but the Tory party just keeps on demonstrating that there's always deeper depths to plumb.

Puja

Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 07, 2023 11:19 am

Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Sat Nov 04, 2023 5:15 pm A lot of people in Trafalgar Square. I just got back:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67320715

Should be bigger next week though.

The Police:

“Our message to organisers is clear: please, we ask you to urgently reconsider. It is not appropriate to hold any protests in London this weekend.”

Suella Braverman:

“The hate marchers need to understand that decent British people have had enough of these displays of thuggish intimidation and extremism.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/ ... -in-london

It seems that, in the view of the Government, a march calling for peace is contradictory to the sentiment of Remembrance Day.

Sandydragon wrote: ↑Tue Nov 07, 2023 9:17 pm

Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 07, 2023 11:19 am

Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Sat Nov 04, 2023 5:15 pm A lot of people in Trafalgar Square. I just got back:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67320715

Should be bigger next week though.

The Police:

“Our message to organisers is clear: please, we ask you to urgently reconsider. It is not appropriate to hold any protests in London this weekend.”

Suella Braverman:

“The hate marchers need to understand that decent British people have had enough of these displays of thuggish intimidation and extremism.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/ ... -in-london

It seems that, in the view of the Government, a march calling for peace is contradictory to the sentiment of Remembrance Day.

I'd suggest the issue the police are worried about is the potential for some elements in the Palestinian support march breaking off to make trouble at the cenotaph. That risk certainly exists, bearing in mind that some poppy sellers have had abuse from pro-Palestinian protestors over the last week or so. Given the number of veterans who parade, that in itself is a major police operation, and a large pro-Palestinian march would stretch those resources still further.

The police have asked nicely but they don't seem to be taking the step of banning the march; its hardly undemocratic of them to ask nicely to rearrange a march to keep London moving on a busy weekend. And a more mature approach than the Home Secretary seems capable of.

Which Tyler wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 10:41 am Probably fits better here:

I see the neo-nazis are going to gather at the cenotaph to defend the "true meaning of armistice day" and defend the memorial against those calling for peace.
Whilst being supported by the "Party of Churchill".

All whilst at the wrong place and the wrong time.
I'm sure London's Jewish community will also feel so much safer, knowing the the neo-nazis have their back...

My irony filter may just blow a fuse.


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/nov/08/far-right-groups-call-on-supporters-to-oppose-pro-palestine-march-on-armistice-day

The government thinks it is provocative to have these marches on Saturday, on Armistice Day; it is a very sacred day where the whole country comes together to remember those who have paid the ultimate sacrifice to give us the freedom to protest, the freedom to express different views the rest of the year.

Sandydragon wrote: ↑Tue Nov 07, 2023 9:17 pm

Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 07, 2023 11:19 am

Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Sat Nov 04, 2023 5:15 pm A lot of people in Trafalgar Square. I just got back:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67320715

Should be bigger next week though.

The Police:

“Our message to organisers is clear: please, we ask you to urgently reconsider. It is not appropriate to hold any protests in London this weekend.”

Suella Braverman:

“The hate marchers need to understand that decent British people have had enough of these displays of thuggish intimidation and extremism.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/ ... -in-london

It seems that, in the view of the Government, a march calling for peace is contradictory to the sentiment of Remembrance Day.

I'd suggest the issue the police are worried about is the potential for some elements in the Palestinian support march breaking off to make trouble at the cenotaph. That risk certainly exists, bearing in mind that some poppy sellers have had abuse from pro-Palestinian protestors over the last week or so. Given the number of veterans who parade, that in itself is a major police operation, and a large pro-Palestinian march would stretch those resources still further.

The police have asked nicely but they don't seem to be taking the step of banning the march; its hardly undemocratic of them to ask nicely to rearrange a march to keep London moving on a busy weekend. And a more mature approach than the Home Secretary seems capable of.

paddy no 11 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 7:58 pm

Sandydragon wrote: ↑Tue Nov 07, 2023 9:17 pm

Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 07, 2023 11:19 am
The Police:


Suella Braverman:


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/ ... -in-london

It seems that, in the view of the Government, a march calling for peace is contradictory to the sentiment of Remembrance Day.

I'd suggest the issue the police are worried about is the potential for some elements in the Palestinian support march breaking off to make trouble at the cenotaph. That risk certainly exists, bearing in mind that some poppy sellers have had abuse from pro-Palestinian protestors over the last week or so. Given the number of veterans who parade, that in itself is a major police operation, and a large pro-Palestinian march would stretch those resources still further.

The police have asked nicely but they don't seem to be taking the step of banning the march; its hardly undemocratic of them to ask nicely to rearrange a march to keep London moving on a busy weekend. And a more mature approach than the Home Secretary seems capable of.

Why is it likely that some Palestinians will break off?

Why not so it's very likely that right wing violent thugs will attack the pro palestinian march

Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 9:15 am

Sandydragon wrote: ↑Tue Nov 07, 2023 9:17 pm

Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 07, 2023 11:19 am
The Police:


Suella Braverman:


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/ ... -in-london

It seems that, in the view of the Government, a march calling for peace is contradictory to the sentiment of Remembrance Day.

I'd suggest the issue the police are worried about is the potential for some elements in the Palestinian support march breaking off to make trouble at the cenotaph. That risk certainly exists, bearing in mind that some poppy sellers have had abuse from pro-Palestinian protestors over the last week or so. Given the number of veterans who parade, that in itself is a major police operation, and a large pro-Palestinian march would stretch those resources still further.

The police have asked nicely but they don't seem to be taking the step of banning the march; its hardly undemocratic of them to ask nicely to rearrange a march to keep London moving on a busy weekend. And a more mature approach than the Home Secretary seems capable of.

The Gaza ceasefire march is on Saturday, the veterans' parade is on Sunday - what is the problem?

As for the possibility of desecrating the Cenotaph - the march doesn't go near it. The march a couple of weeks back did, but as we all passed the cenotaph not one of us thought to desecrate it.

This is a march against the policy of a foreign government - it's not remotely aimed at dead soldiers or British war veterans (I would hope many war veterans would also welcome an end to the killing too). To suggest that Saturdays' marchers would have anything against Sunday's paraders, or vice versa, seems to me to be looking for division, seeking to stir it up, where there should be none.

And It really isn't for the police to tell us whether a protest is 'appropriate' or not.

Sandydragon wrote: ↑Fri Nov 10, 2023 7:53 am

Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 9:15 am

Sandydragon wrote: ↑Tue Nov 07, 2023 9:17 pm

I'd suggest the issue the police are worried about is the potential for some elements in the Palestinian support march breaking off to make trouble at the cenotaph. That risk certainly exists, bearing in mind that some poppy sellers have had abuse from pro-Palestinian protestors over the last week or so. Given the number of veterans who parade, that in itself is a major police operation, and a large pro-Palestinian march would stretch those resources still further.

The police have asked nicely but they don't seem to be taking the step of banning the march; its hardly undemocratic of them to ask nicely to rearrange a march to keep London moving on a busy weekend. And a more mature approach than the Home Secretary seems capable of.

The Gaza ceasefire march is on Saturday, the veterans' parade is on Sunday - what is the problem?

As for the possibility of desecrating the Cenotaph - the march doesn't go near it. The march a couple of weeks back did, but as we all passed the cenotaph not one of us thought to desecrate it.

This is a march against the policy of a foreign government - it's not remotely aimed at dead soldiers or British war veterans (I would hope many war veterans would also welcome an end to the killing too). To suggest that Saturdays' marchers would have anything against Sunday's paraders, or vice versa, seems to me to be looking for division, seeking to stir it up, where there should be none.

And It really isn't for the police to tell us whether a protest is 'appropriate' or not.

Saturday is the 11th, but I had got my days mixed up when I first responded to this and thought the 11th was the Sunday.

I’d prefer that the 11th was marked more than it is but since we don’t then I’ve no objection to the march on the Saturday.


Sadly not everyone thinks like you do, but the cenotaph shouldn’t be a problem given the lack of proximity.


I think the police are well within their rights to ask a protest not to go ahead. Particularly if they know that counter protestors are likely to kick off on a particular weekend. There’s strong public support for this march
Not going ahead this weekend but entirely the organisers call if they want to turn off half of the population.

Incidentally the Met police is calling in over a thousand officers from other forces. That’s a lot of work that can’t be done across the country for a political march which can achieve nothing. Neither Israel or Hamas give a toss about what the UK thinks.

Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Fri Nov 10, 2023 1:30 pm

Sandydragon wrote: ↑Fri Nov 10, 2023 7:53 am

Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 9:15 am
The Gaza ceasefire march is on Saturday, the veterans' parade is on Sunday - what is the problem?

As for the possibility of desecrating the Cenotaph - the march doesn't go near it. The march a couple of weeks back did, but as we all passed the cenotaph not one of us thought to desecrate it.

This is a march against the policy of a foreign government - it's not remotely aimed at dead soldiers or British war veterans (I would hope many war veterans would also welcome an end to the killing too). To suggest that Saturdays' marchers would have anything against Sunday's paraders, or vice versa, seems to me to be looking for division, seeking to stir it up, where there should be none.

And It really isn't for the police to tell us whether a protest is 'appropriate' or not.

Saturday is the 11th, but I had got my days mixed up when I first responded to this and thought the 11th was the Sunday.

I’d prefer that the 11th was marked more than it is but since we don’t then I’ve no objection to the march on the Saturday.


Sadly not everyone thinks like you do, but the cenotaph shouldn’t be a problem given the lack of proximity.


I think the police are well within their rights to ask a protest not to go ahead. Particularly if they know that counter protestors are likely to kick off on a particular weekend. There’s strong public support for this march
Not going ahead this weekend but entirely the organisers call if they want to turn off half of the population.

Incidentally the Met police is calling in over a thousand officers from other forces. That’s a lot of work that can’t be done across the country for a political march which can achieve nothing. Neither Israel or Hamas give a toss about what the UK thinks.

Fair enough.

The government and certain newspapers are making the most of people's confusion over Saturday and Sunday. I'm sure a lot of people still think the Gaza march might physically clash with the veterans' parade. That's no accident.

I think we'll have to disagree over whether it's right for the police to advise us on the appropriateness of protest. They've come to the right decision this time but under a different commissioner or a less weak government they could easily have interpreted the law differently. That power could make a 'request' from them less innocent. Do you think the police would even have made that public request had they not been under such political pressure?

This is not a 'march which can achieve nothing'. It's not pointless. Yes, Israel and Hamas don't particularly care about it but they do (or certainly Israel does) care what the UK government says. We are an important part of Israel's support network in the international community (and an influence on the US) and Israel would be very worried if we were to suddenly take the UN line and push for them to end the occupation. This march puts pressure on the UK government to do that. It will not change the mind of a Tory government but it might influence a Labour government (or non-Tory coalition). (It also shows them more generally that voters do care about human rights and lives, even in other countries - that's a good thing in itself). It's a long shot and a long road but there's a chance of success. It's not a waste of time.

Which Tyler wrote: ↑Fri Nov 10, 2023 9:25 am Is that to police the peace march? The hooligan march? or the actual remembrance ceremony?

I'm also amazed that anyone thinks the chances of people calling for peace and literal hooligans and fascists are equally likely to fuck shit up.

Sandydragon wrote: ↑Sat Nov 11, 2023 2:14 pmI don’t think any government would do nothing following such a terrorist outrage.

Sandydragon wrote: ↑Sat Nov 11, 2023 2:15 pmEverything. I agree about the hooliganism scum currently throwing objects at the police near the cenotaph. But not everyone on the pro Palestinian March is calling for peace and harmony. It’s a tiny minority who support Hamas but they are present.

paddy no 11 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 7:58 pm

Sandydragon wrote: ↑Tue Nov 07, 2023 9:17 pm

Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 07, 2023 11:19 am
The Police:


Suella Braverman:


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/ ... -in-london

It seems that, in the view of the Government, a march calling for peace is contradictory to the sentiment of Remembrance Day.

I'd suggest the issue the police are worried about is the potential for some elements in the Palestinian support march breaking off to make trouble at the cenotaph. That risk certainly exists, bearing in mind that some poppy sellers have had abuse from pro-Palestinian protestors over the last week or so. Given the number of veterans who parade, that in itself is a major police operation, and a large pro-Palestinian march would stretch those resources still further.

The police have asked nicely but they don't seem to be taking the step of banning the march; its hardly undemocratic of them to ask nicely to rearrange a march to keep London moving on a busy weekend. And a more mature approach than the Home Secretary seems capable of.

Why is it likely that some Palestinians will break off?

Why not so it's very likely that right wing violent thugs will attack the pro palestinian march

paddy no 11 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 11, 2023 2:39 pm In from March in cork today good crowd at it

Sandydragon wrote: ↑Sat Nov 11, 2023 2:14 pm

Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Fri Nov 10, 2023 1:30 pm

Sandydragon wrote: ↑Fri Nov 10, 2023 7:53 am

Saturday is the 11th, but I had got my days mixed up when I first responded to this and thought the 11th was the Sunday.

I’d prefer that the 11th was marked more than it is but since we don’t then I’ve no objection to the march on the Saturday.


Sadly not everyone thinks like you do, but the cenotaph shouldn’t be a problem given the lack of proximity.


I think the police are well within their rights to ask a protest not to go ahead. Particularly if they know that counter protestors are likely to kick off on a particular weekend. There’s strong public support for this march
Not going ahead this weekend but entirely the organisers call if they want to turn off half of the population.

Incidentally the Met police is calling in over a thousand officers from other forces. That’s a lot of work that can’t be done across the country for a political march which can achieve nothing. Neither Israel or Hamas give a toss about what the UK thinks.

Fair enough.

The government and certain newspapers are making the most of people's confusion over Saturday and Sunday. I'm sure a lot of people still think the Gaza march might physically clash with the veterans' parade. That's no accident.

I think we'll have to disagree over whether it's right for the police to advise us on the appropriateness of protest. They've come to the right decision this time but under a different commissioner or a less weak government they could easily have interpreted the law differently. That power could make a 'request' from them less innocent. Do you think the police would even have made that public request had they not been under such political pressure?

This is not a 'march which can achieve nothing'. It's not pointless. Yes, Israel and Hamas don't particularly care about it but they do (or certainly Israel does) care what the UK government says. We are an important part of Israel's support network in the international community (and an influence on the US) and Israel would be very worried if we were to suddenly take the UN line and push for them to end the occupation. This march puts pressure on the UK government to do that. It will not change the mind of a Tory government but it might influence a Labour government (or non-Tory coalition). (It also shows them more generally that voters do care about human rights and lives, even in other countries - that's a good thing in itself). It's a long shot and a long road but there's a chance of success. It's not a waste of time.

I don’t think the Israeli government are that bothered by the British governments opinion at this time. They can’t not act. The fact they are playing into Hamas and Iranian hands makes the whole thing additionally horrific, but they can’t just sit back and do nothing. I don’t think any government would do nothing following such a terrorist outrage.

My hope is that Netanyahu and Hamas are no longer running anything when the dust settles and leaders who take a 2 state solution seriously are at the helm.