RugbyRebels

https://www.englandrugby.com/news/artic ... mer-series

OUT Oghre, Willis, Spencer, Dingwall, OHC, deGlanville and Parton

IN Capon, Langdon, B Curry, Rodd, Randall, Malins, Sleightholme, Tuilagi and Furbank

Cannot see the point of selecting Tuilagi. Furbank there as 10/15 cover for the A game? No POC.

Re: tuilagi. Presumably to assess his general fitness and such first hand.

Sleightholme obviously missed out first time because of a niggle. Good to see him in.

Spencer turfed out at the first opportunity. Says it all for his international prospects. Shame no Uren, but I wouldn't drop either of Randall or Mitchell and can understand them wanting to focus on a limited number of promising 9s. I'd drop Robson myself, but I know others wouldn't.

Most unlucky are POC and TWillis. Obviously Ludlow and Reid's work rates must've impressed in camp for Willis to be the one getting the Spanish archer. Still surprised at Bassett's continued inclusion - maybe he's lined up as A team captain?

Trevor Davidson still hangs on in there despite Rodd's inclusion!

Puja

Digby wrote:So no thoughts he might declare for Canada?

He was named in last 6N squad by Townsend

POC missing out doesn’t make much sense to me. He’s been playing at 12 for the best (or certainly over of the best) attacking back lines in the country, and he’s not just making up the numbers.

He’s done a lot more than Kelly (who, don’t get me wrong, I like…but) to deserve it in any event.

Shame. I felt that was well earned

Puja wrote:Sleightholme obviously missed out first time because of a niggle. Good to see him in.

Spencer turfed out at the first opportunity. Says it all for his international prospects. Shame no Uren, but I wouldn't drop either of Randall or Mitchell and can understand them wanting to focus on a limited number of promising 9s. I'd drop Robson myself, but I know others wouldn't.

Most unlucky are POC and TWillis. Obviously Ludlow and Reid's work rates must've impressed in camp for Willis to be the one getting the Spanish archer. Still surprised at Bassett's continued inclusion - maybe he's lined up as A team captain?

Trevor Davidson still hangs on in there despite Rodd's inclusion!

Puja

No O’Conor is very strange. He’s been the best 12 in the league by some distance IMO.

I’m shocked Tom Willis has been let go. I wonder if it’s an injury?

Shame to see Hassell-Collins drop out too.

Bassett is a very consistent player and has been a great servant to Wasps but I just don’t see him as test quality.

Still, there is a possibility that some of the changes are down to minor injuries and some of those let go, come back in next week?

I don’t get the Furbank inclusion. At all. Pleased for B Curry and sleightholme.

Gloskarlos wrote:I don’t get the Furbank inclusion. At all. Pleased for B Curry and sleightholme.

How big and what is the difference in class between Tom and Ben Curry? Pretty sure Ben got called into the squad first, got crocked, and that was that.

I R Geech wrote:

Gloskarlos wrote:I don’t get the Furbank inclusion. At all. Pleased for B Curry and sleightholme.

How big and what is the difference in class between Tom and Ben Curry? Pretty sure Ben got called into the squad first, got crocked, and that was that.

Quite. Not a huge gap between them in my view, and what gap there is can easily be attributed to the increased attention, coaching opportunities, and general boost one must get from being a nationally, nay internationally recognised hero. It’s mad to think the difference can be only down to an injury picked up at the wrong time, particularly with a coach whose selection criteria is questionable at times to say the least... years in the international wilderness. There are several players who have come a cropper in the same way. I really hope it doesn’t turn out to be the case for Jack Willis too.

What about Earl?

I did mention Tuilagi. And no poc is an error.

I R Geech wrote:

Gloskarlos wrote:I don’t get the Furbank inclusion. At all. Pleased for B Curry and sleightholme.

How big and what is the difference in class between Tom and Ben Curry? Pretty sure Ben got called into the squad first, got crocked, and that was that.

Tom looks clearly more bulked up and at 17.5 st. is the best part of a stone heavier than his bro (Wicki data, who knows how correct.) He is a different shape then when he first appeared on the scene. His build gives him the capacity to play all three back row slots. Perhaps Ben is a more traditional open side? At present, Tom is probably well ahead of Ben in ability and one of the world's top flankers.

Spiffy wrote:

I R Geech wrote:

Gloskarlos wrote:I don’t get the Furbank inclusion. At all. Pleased for B Curry and sleightholme.

How big and what is the difference in class between Tom and Ben Curry? Pretty sure Ben got called into the squad first, got crocked, and that was that.

Tom looks clearly more bulked up and at 17.5 st. is the best part of a stone heavier than his bro (Wicki data, who knows how correct.) He is a different shape then when he first appeared on the scene. His build gives him the capacity to play all three back row slots. Perhaps Ben is a more traditional open side? At present, Tom is probably well ahead of Ben in ability and one of the world's top flankers.

That difference was definitely not there at the point of his first cap. It's possible that Eddie is a sublime judge of player and Tom has an inherent quality that Ben does not, but to the outside observer, the differences between them appear almost entirely down to Tom spending near 4 years in the elite training environment of the England squad, coupled with Ben having a couple of longish injuries absences.

Puja

Banquo wrote:What about Earl?

Good point. Don't think he particularly needs a rest - maybe he's got a niggle or Eddie thinks he knows what he needs to about him.

Puja

Yeah Earl missing is a bit odd. Albeit I’m not as big a fan of him as some.

Great broken field runner, but other aspects aren’t quite as strong IMO

Earl is a surprising omission. Hopefully this means Ben Curry is in the box seat to start all three games.

Even a long time back people were saying Ben is more skillful and Tom more physical i believe.

I'm curious whether guys like Hill, Martin, Lawrence, Furbank, Malins, who've had a bit of exposure with the full side will be considered for the A fixture. Any idea when this team gets announced? I'm quite looking forward to these games now, even if we're largely looking at a bunch of 3rd/4th choice players.

I would imagine so.

Malins might be saved for the full tests, but the others you mentioned mostly have less than a handful of caps to their name and I’d argue Lawrence (in particular) needs more opportunities to show what he can do.

Mikey Brown wrote:I'm curious whether guys like Hill, Martin, Lawrence, Furbank, Malins, who've had a bit of exposure with the full side will be considered for the A fixture. Any idea when this team gets announced? I'm quite looking forward to these games now, even if we're largely looking at a bunch of 3rd/4th choice players.

Me too. Some of the 3rd, 4th choice players are, in reality, not a million miles off, and some have amazing potential. Should be good

An uncapped XV might look something like - Rodd, Langdon, Heyes, Wells, Munga, Read, Ludlow, Chick, Randall, Umaga, Sleightholme, Ojomoh, Kelly, Radwan, Steward

That would be a little on the green side so I expect to see Obano, P Hill, Ewels, Curry, T Hill, Lawrence, Malins and possibly Cokanasiga in the 23 at least.

Umaga has to start. I'm sure Furbank has been called in so he can cover 10. Interesting to see who starts at hooker and the backrow is full of possibilities.

I would have thought maybe Lawrence at 13 given that Kelly and Ojomoh have only played at 12 in their short senior careers.

I think that was in response to my question about previously capped players now getting A caps, but I agree that sounds more likely and better balanced.

I just find the idea of an A side when you’re already missing half your team to be a bit strange, but I suppose there’s no reason you shouldn’t have fully capped internationals in there.

Scrumhead wrote:I would have thought maybe Lawrence at 13 given that Kelly and Ojomoh have only played at 12 in their short senior careers.

Kelly initially played 13 for Ireland under 20s and Tigers with a sub appearance on the wing as well. Borthwick changed track with him and started playing him solely at 12 during the season. He's got enough of an outside break to make it work and he can link with the wingers well enough given Tigers often use him on the wrap play to do that. I'd expect Kelly to get some game time in the A game to ward off any potential Ireland call up in the near future.

TheNomad wrote:Yeah Earl missing is a bit odd. Albeit I’m not as big a fan of him as some.

Great broken field runner, but other aspects aren’t quite as strong IMO

Agree. England is very well off for established and developing back row talent. Earl is a great player for the loose, open game, but as you suggest perhaps a tad lacking in the nuts and bolts/grunt department. As an all rounder, perhaps a little overrated. Jones does like a workhorse.

FKAS wrote:

Scrumhead wrote:I would have thought maybe Lawrence at 13 given that Kelly and Ojomoh have only played at 12 in their short senior careers.

Kelly initially played 13 for Ireland under 20s and Tigers with a sub appearance on the wing as well. Borthwick changed track with him and started playing him solely at 12 during the season. He's got enough of an outside break to make it work and he can link with the wingers well enough given Tigers often use him on the wrap play to do that. I'd expect Kelly to get some game time in the A game to ward off any potential Ireland call up in the near future.

Yes, but I thought I’d clarified that by referring specifically to their ‘short senior careers’.