Brexit delayed

[Stom]

Sometimes of course the EU makes it all too easy to revile the institution, something they're busy ensuring continues by keeping MEP expenses private which is to say free from public scrutiny. This sort of nonsense forces the idea it's far too much a gravy train down our throats

Absolutely. The EU is a bit broken as an institution and the UK is one of the few countries who could have made something better...but that takes someone with actually ability running the country...

[belgarion]

And the EU Commission being willing to listen & change which it ain't. As somebody said earlier on the thread
the turkeys won't vote for Christmas

[Digby]

And the EU Commission being willing to listen & change which it ain't. As somebody said earlier on the thread
the turkeys won't vote for Christmas

On such basis one would seek the disbandment of our own parliament, the more sensible approach is to seek improvement rather than give up in despair

There will now follow some media, public and political pressure on the EU to amend their practices. It may not return a desired result at this time, in which case it's merely an issue to be returned to. Frankly I can't imagine we'll ever run out of issues which see us seeking improvement in public life

[Sandydragon]

Sometimes of course the EU makes it all too easy to revile the institution, something they're busy ensuring continues by keeping MEP expenses private which is to say free from public scrutiny. This sort of nonsense forces the idea it's far too much a gravy train down our throats

When I voted remain, I had this urge to wash my hands. The EU is a terribly structured and let organisation and the idea of greater federalism is one I strongly oppose.

But the free trade area is good for us and whilst I had little hope of EU reform, it’s a better option than a leap on the dark Brexit scenario.

[WaspInWales]

Boris is clearly pushing to get the top job.

I wonder if there is any influence from Trump?

The tiny handed, mushroom-shaped penis has already tipped BoJo to be a "great PM". Clearly not an original Trump thought, but possibly more Bannon related.

This alt-right Bannon movement could be seeing some results.

[Puja]

Sometimes of course the EU makes it all too easy to revile the institution, something they're busy ensuring continues by keeping MEP expenses private which is to say free from public scrutiny. This sort of nonsense forces the idea it's far too much a gravy train down our throats

When I voted remain, I had this urge to wash my hands. The EU is a terribly structured and let organisation and the idea of greater federalism is one I strongly oppose.

But the free trade area is good for us and whilst I had little hope of EU reform, it’s a better option than a leap on the dark Brexit scenario.

The EU needs a reform and to become one thing or the other - either a loose trading relationship or a federalised state. At the moment it's got everyone pulling in different directions and the uncertainty ends up with things like the markets assuming Germany would cover Greece's borrowing and being rudely surprised.

I wouldn't mind either actually - there's a lot of advantages to being part of a (properly organised and democratic) United States of Europe. There's no need for separate militaries and nuclear deterrents, a joined up approach and aligned tax regimes would help with corporate tax evasion, a unified approach to foreign policy would increase our clout and allow greater power to stand alone from ethically questionable regimes like China and Trump's USA.

Puja

[Digby]

Whether a United States of Europe ever comes about I don't know , but I can't see any support for it as things stand, nor any liklihood there'll be any in the next few decades.

On a seperate note my firm has been in discussions with Labour on what they'd be doing vis a vis negotiating our exit and I can confirm like the Tories they're as useful as a chocolate teapot. My personal favourite is their failure to confirm the six tests they'd apply to any proposed Tory deal also being applied to any deal they came back with

[Puja]

Whether a United States of Europe ever comes about I don't know , but I can't see any support for it as things stand, nor any liklihood there'll be any in the next few decades.

On a seperate note my firm has been in discussions with Labour on what they'd be doing vis a vis negotiating our exit and I can confirm like the Tories they're as useful as a chocolate teapot. My personal favourite is their failure to confirm the six tests they'd apply to any proposed Tory deal also being applied to any deal they came back with

That is unsurprising, but amusing. If I were May, I'd be tempted to say, "Fine, you want an election, off you go," just to watch the panic as Labour suddenly had to have an actual plan.

Puja

[Mellsblue]

Whether a United States of Europe ever comes about I don't know , but I can't see any support for it as things stand, nor any liklihood there'll be any in the next few decades.

On a seperate note my firm has been in discussions with Labour on what they'd be doing vis a vis negotiating our exit and I can confirm like the Tories they're as useful as a chocolate teapot. My personal favourite is their failure to confirm the six tests they'd apply to any proposed Tory deal also being applied to any deal they came back with

That is unsurprising, but amusing. If I were May, I'd be tempted to say, "Fine, you want an election, off you go," just to watch the panic as Labour suddenly had to have an actual plan.

Puja

[Digby]

Whether a United States of Europe ever comes about I don't know , but I can't see any support for it as things stand, nor any liklihood there'll be any in the next few decades.

On a seperate note my firm has been in discussions with Labour on what they'd be doing vis a vis negotiating our exit and I can confirm like the Tories they're as useful as a chocolate teapot. My personal favourite is their failure to confirm the six tests they'd apply to any proposed Tory deal also being applied to any deal they came back with

That is unsurprising, but amusing. If I were May, I'd be tempted to say, "Fine, you want an election, off you go," just to watch the panic as Labour suddenly had to have an actual plan.

Puja

And what if she were left with a tiny majority government?

[Puja]

Whether a United States of Europe ever comes about I don't know , but I can't see any support for it as things stand, nor any liklihood there'll be any in the next few decades.

On a seperate note my firm has been in discussions with Labour on what they'd be doing vis a vis negotiating our exit and I can confirm like the Tories they're as useful as a chocolate teapot. My personal favourite is their failure to confirm the six tests they'd apply to any proposed Tory deal also being applied to any deal they came back with

That is unsurprising, but amusing. If I were May, I'd be tempted to say, "Fine, you want an election, off you go," just to watch the panic as Labour suddenly had to have an actual plan.

Puja

And what if she were left with a tiny majority government?

That would be the best punchline of all!

Puja

[WaspInWales]

Boris is clearly pushing to get the top job.

I wonder if there is any influence from Trump?

The tiny handed, mushroom-shaped penis has already tipped BoJo to be a "great PM". Clearly not an original Trump thought, but possibly more Bannon related.

This alt-right Bannon movement could be seeing some results.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45680514

[Digby]

Boris is clearly pushing to get the top job.

I wonder if there is any influence from Trump?

The tiny handed, mushroom-shaped penis has already tipped BoJo to be a "great PM". Clearly not an original Trump thought, but possibly more Bannon related.

This alt-right Bannon movement could be seeing some results.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45680514

He didn't have the guts to run when Gove was against him and since then he's pissed off a large number of Tory MPs who conceivably might have backed him. He's a distance away from getting on the shortlist unless everyone on the right aligns behind him, and a good number of them wouldn't be natural Boris fansr

[Mellsblue]

I think the ERG have him as their candidate but I agree that he’ll struggle for votes within the wider parliamentary party. That said, who would’ve thought Leadsom would make it to the final two last time.

[Sandydragon]

Johnson still has a lot of support amongst Conservative party membership so unless he is culled by the MPs, he has a realistic shot.

Which is truly frightening as he has proven himself to be incapable of holding high office.

Frankly none of the likely candidates is that awe inspiring (please Ruth change your mind). Perhaps Javid

[kk67]

Johnson still has a lot of support amongst Conservative party membership so unless he is culled by the MPs, he has a realistic shot.

Which is truly frightening as he has proven himself to be incapable of holding high office.

That sounds a lot like the justifications that the corporate idiots use in an attempt to negate Jeremy Corbyn's influence.

[morepork]

Johnson still has a lot of support amongst Conservative party membership so unless he is culled by the MPs, he has a realistic shot.

Which is truly frightening as he has proven himself to be incapable of holding high office.

That sounds a lot like the justifications that the corporate idiots use in an attempt to negate Jeremy Corbyn's influence.

Boris is a manifest idiot though.

[kk67]

Johnson still has a lot of support amongst Conservative party membership so unless he is culled by the MPs, he has a realistic shot.

Which is truly frightening as he has proven himself to be incapable of holding high office.

That sounds a lot like the justifications that the corporate idiots use in an attempt to negate Jeremy Corbyn's influence.

Boris is a manifest idiot though.

That's how the 'Boutique Polling Organizations' make their money.
Identify the 10% who are poorly educated, rural, politically disenfranchised, bigoted and just plain thick.
They think he's a 'good laugh'.

Recently it has emerged that these 'Boutique' organisations are sharing 'private polling' information with hedge-fund managers. Huge profits have followed.

[Puja]

Johnson still has a lot of support amongst Conservative party membership so unless he is culled by the MPs, he has a realistic shot.

Which is truly frightening as he has proven himself to be incapable of holding high office.

That sounds a lot like the justifications that the corporate idiots use in an attempt to negate Jeremy Corbyn's influence.

Given the tremendous hash that he made of being Foreign Secretary, I don't think it's an unfair summation.

Puja

[morepork]

Where the fuck is David Cameron these days? Keeping his fat head down is he?

[Sandydragon]

Johnson still has a lot of support amongst Conservative party membership so unless he is culled by the MPs, he has a realistic shot.

Which is truly frightening as he has proven himself to be incapable of holding high office.

That sounds a lot like the justifications that the corporate idiots use in an attempt to negate Jeremy Corbyn's influence.

Given the tremendous hash that he made of being Foreign Secretary, I don't think it's an unfair summation.

Puja

Exactly. Corbyn doesn’t need an opportunity to show he is a joke, is pretty obvious.

[BBD]

Whether a United States of Europe ever comes about I don't know , but I can't see any support for it as things stand, nor any liklihood there'll be any in the next few decades.

On a seperate note my firm has been in discussions with Labour on what they'd be doing vis a vis negotiating our exit and I can confirm like the Tories they're as useful as a chocolate teapot. My personal favourite is their failure to confirm the six tests they'd apply to any proposed Tory deal also being applied to any deal they came back with

That is unsurprising, but amusing. If I were May, I'd be tempted to say, "Fine, you want an election, off you go," just to watch the panic as Labour suddenly had to have an actual plan.

Puja

I can reveal from a source close to the Labour Party elite what the Six tests are that would be applied to any Tory deal

test 1 - Is it a Tory deal?
test 2 - will it give Corbyn an opportunity to create further division at the one time the nation would benefit from unity?
test 3 - Will it finally get anti-semitism off the front page?
test 4 - is there a hope that Labour may actually gain some power however slender?
test 5 - is the maths involved more complicated than Diane Abbott can cope with?
test 6 - are you sure its a Tory deal and therefore must be rejected as a matter of principle?

[Puja]

Whether a United States of Europe ever comes about I don't know , but I can't see any support for it as things stand, nor any liklihood there'll be any in the next few decades.

On a seperate note my firm has been in discussions with Labour on what they'd be doing vis a vis negotiating our exit and I can confirm like the Tories they're as useful as a chocolate teapot. My personal favourite is their failure to confirm the six tests they'd apply to any proposed Tory deal also being applied to any deal they came back with

That is unsurprising, but amusing. If I were May, I'd be tempted to say, "Fine, you want an election, off you go," just to watch the panic as Labour suddenly had to have an actual plan.

Puja

I can reveal from a source close to the Labour Party elite what the Six tests are that would be applied to any Tory deal

test 1 - Is it a Tory deal?
test 2 - will it give Corbyn an opportunity to create further division at the one time the nation would benefit from unity?
test 3 - Will it finally get anti-semitism off the front page?
test 4 - is there a hope that Labour may actually gain some power however slender?
test 5 - is the maths involved more complicated than Diane Abbott can cope with?
test 6 - are you sure its a Tory deal and therefore must be rejected as a matter of principle?

The original 6 tests don't really need satirising - aren't they effectively:

Test 1 - keep all the advantages of EU membership
Test 2 - gain all the advantages of leaving the EU
Test 3 - yes, we know that's impossible, that's the point
Test 4 - Ahahahahahaa!
Test 5 - Ahahahahahahaaa!
Test 6 - please don't actually call an election, I don't want power until this is over and I can blame you for it.

Puja

[BBD]

pretty much an unassailable position from which to throw stones, when you dont have any power or responsibility to offer anything constructive and can simply point to any and every concession which are an inevitable part of the negotiations

I think the politicians of the UK have really let down the electorate with their power play politicking

[Sandydragon]

pretty much an unassailable position from which to throw stones, when you dont have any power or responsibility to offer anything constructive and can simply point to any and every concession which are an inevitable part of the negotiations

I think the politicians of the UK have really let down the electorate with their power play politicking

Amen! Corbyn could have won over a lot of support by acting as an honest broker in all this. Negotiations with the government to thrash out a soft Brexit that labour would support could have allowed May to ignore the ERG and brought about a far more measured departure from the EU.

My own view is that Corbyn and McDonnell are ideologically opposed to the EU and want a hard Brexit so they can ride the backlash against the Tory government and potentially impose their own policies without constraint thereafter.