RugbyRebels

switchskier wrote:So much for any Scots touring in two years time.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/ ... frica-2021

I am in no way defending Gatland, but we need to stop pretending it is only he who hasn't picked one or two Scots who we may feel deserved to go. It isn't. McGeechan also picked few Scots.

All I want is our players to keep playing well and getting to/being involved in the latter stages of the competitions. Any Lions selection is a bonus for the players and/or fans who still support the concept.

Nothing short of a 6N championship before the lions will get anyone more than a token smattering

Pretty gutted about this but the scots know what they need to do

If we were picking the Lions now I'd admit none deserve to go bar Hogg perhaps. The inconsistency that we play with is not cut out for top test rugby. Or knock out rugby... so the world cup is a huge concern but that's another topic

Finn Russell and Hamish Watson should have been in the original 2017 squad.

But then, it's not unusual for players that were in form to be ignored. Mefin Davies should have been included in the 2005 squad ahead of someone like Andy Titterrell.

On the bright side, he won't have been Welsh coach for two years by then, so he'll have less of a tendency to just reach for the players he's used to.

Puja

Puja wrote:On the bright side, he won't have been Welsh coach for two years by then, so he'll have less of a tendency to just reach for the players he's used to.

Puja

All he’s going to do is stuff the squad full of England players so he can train with them for 6 weeks, as he’ll be coaching them after the World Cup.

General Zod wrote:

Puja wrote:On the bright side, he won't have been Welsh coach for two years by then, so he'll have less of a tendency to just reach for the players he's used to.

Puja

All he’s going to do is stuff the squad full of England players so he can train with them for 6 weeks, as he’ll be coaching them after the World Cup.

I'm still trying to live in denial about that, thank you very much.

Puja

Big D wrote:

switchskier wrote:So much for any Scots touring in two years time.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/ ... frica-2021

I am in no way defending Gatland, but we need to stop pretending it is only he who hasn't picked one or two Scots who we may feel deserved to go. It isn't. McGeechan also picked few Scots.

All I want is our players to keep playing well and getting to/being involved in the latter stages of the competitions. Any Lions selection is a bonus for the players and/or fans who still support the concept.

Yes but in 2009 we were rubbish. That year in the 6N we scored a total of four tries.

McInally travels for sure, quality player & leader, not inclined to giving away hari kiri penalties like some of his teammates

Watson travels but competition is tighter here

paddy no 11 wrote:McInally travels for sure, quality player & leader, not inclined to giving away hari kiri penalties like some of his teammates

Watson travels but competition is tighter here

No point speculating at this stage. 2 years out with a RWC to come and no doubt a slew of retirements and some younger/less experienced international players to make some gains.

Plus we all know we want a team full of Darcy Grahams

That tour will be brutal on the players too so no doubt a few drop outs on tour.

Gatland going to be official soon, I hear.

Where's EinE these days? He'll be jizzing himself over this one.

hugh_woatmeigh wrote:Gatland going to be official soon, I hear.

Where's EinE these days? He'll be jizzing himself over this one.

Gatland confirmed

Kinda innterested to see if his loyalty to wales players lasts two years after the WC. He is very loyal to his players but after two years away Pivac may well not work out and Wales could be in a myre so its really difficult to tell what he will do

The is the challenge for any coach selecting a representative team is trying to get the blend of "current" form using competitions from 3 months before the tour and what the coaches know about a player. And that is part of the problem of Gatland/AN Other being a national coach at the same time as being a Lions coach. It is natural for coaches to go with those they trust and know, or think they will know that turn up in the big games.

This is the same for representative teams from Caley, Glasgow, Edinburgh and Borders age grades all they way up to the Lions.

It happened recently for Scotland. For example, Darcy Graham was performing better than Seymour going into the 6N. Seymour was picked due to past performances. Townsend appears to lean on Glasgow players (Wilson and Gray) because he trusts them. It took an extended run of not peak form before Gray was benched.

The England game that year wasn't just an away game. It was a game talked up by players as Scotland showing they had 6N title ambitions, it was a high pressure game and they bottled it. Arse shatteringly so. Glasgow went to Sarries and got beaten easily in the QFs in Europe that year. Another high pressure game. Both pro teams were nowhere in the league that year. Winning the odd game against a Welsh team without their head coach (we never beat a Gatland coached Welsh team and he was coach forever) or the odd game against Ireland is great but means little without consistency. We are starting to get a consistent at home but remain by and large poor away.

That being said Watson and Barclay should have toured IMO. But English would point to Launchbury as someone who should have toured.

Gatland doesn't think much of the Scotland players, that much is clear, but it is up to them to change peoples minds. If the players take care of their club duties on the pitch, international honours will come and if they play well internationally collectively then Scotland will be consistently better. Do that then lets see where we are in two years and we can discuss Lions, get annoyed at Gatland, argue over the concept of the Lions etc.

As much as I don't like him he and his coaches have got a lot of selections right when it mattered for the test team even if squad selection has been debateable. Rowntree wanting Corbisiero over Grant in 2013, Gatland trusting Davies in 2017 had big impacts on the series.

All the coaches have a say in the selection process, for the last tour Gatland said the fact that Townsend didn't want to be part of the setup was of detriment to the Scottish players, due to them not having a representative in the selection process.

I would have taken Barclay personally on the last tour but the back row is a competitive area.

Numbers wrote:All the coaches have a say in the selection process, for the last tour Gatland said the fact that Townsend didn't want to be part of the setup was of detriment to the Scottish players, due to them not having a representative in the selection process.

I would have taken Barclay personally on the last tour but the back row is a competitive area.

That isn't fair. Townsend was just given a huge promotion to national level and couldn't screw them over on day one. If Gatland was worried about the impartiality of the selection process he could have chosen another Scottish coach.

hugh_woatmeigh wrote:

Numbers wrote:All the coaches have a say in the selection process, for the last tour Gatland said the fact that Townsend didn't want to be part of the setup was of detriment to the Scottish players, due to them not having a representative in the selection process.

I would have taken Barclay personally on the last tour but the back row is a competitive area.

That isn't fair. Townsend was just given a huge promotion to national level and couldn't screw them over on day one. If Gatland was worried about the impartiality of the selection process he could have chosen another Scottish coach.

There were no other coaches of any calibre to pick.

Numbers wrote:

hugh_woatmeigh wrote:

Numbers wrote:All the coaches have a say in the selection process, for the last tour Gatland said the fact that Townsend didn't want to be part of the setup was of detriment to the Scottish players, due to them not having a representative in the selection process.

I would have taken Barclay personally on the last tour but the back row is a competitive area.

That isn't fair. Townsend was just given a huge promotion to national level and couldn't screw them over on day one. If Gatland was worried about the impartiality of the selection process he could have chosen another Scottish coach.

There were no other coaches of any calibre to pick.

That's not really a valid argument when we all know he took Howley...

hugh_woatmeigh wrote:

Numbers wrote:

hugh_woatmeigh wrote:
That isn't fair. Townsend was just given a huge promotion to national level and couldn't screw them over on day one. If Gatland was worried about the impartiality of the selection process he could have chosen another Scottish coach.

There were no other coaches of any calibre to pick.

That's not really a valid argument when we all know he took Howley...

And then took the piss by asking O'Halloran to be assistant backs coach.

It is also irrelevant. Gatland was given a sabbatical to coach the Lions. He literally had months to speak to as many coaches and attend as many games as he wanted.

But none of the above is the reason so few Scots made the tour.

hugh_woatmeigh wrote:Gatland going to be official soon, I hear.

Where's EinE these days? He'll be jizzing himself over this one.

Still about you complete weapon, just busy, Still lurking like a champ, seeing your latest hissy fit during the six nations was fucking golden.

As for the above, nah mate, not really, I’m pretty fucking disappointed in it to be honest. Mainly because we’ve all seen this movie before. Can’t wait to patronised by a member of the other home unions. Sucking air through their teeth... ah well, you know... it’s a 50:50 call... yeah... sure it is.

For clarity, still a Lions fan, will travel no matter what. Doesn’t mean I don’t think Gatland is the wrong man for the job.

I might well travel, as it’s where the in-laws live and it’s taking place at a convenient time for a visit. If pushed, I’ll probably support SA, but I struggle to get up for any match involving the HSBC globetrotters and the associated corporate jamboree.

Edinburgh in Exile wrote:

hugh_woatmeigh wrote:Gatland going to be official soon, I hear.

Where's EinE these days? He'll be jizzing himself over this one.

Still about you complete weapon, just busy, Still lurking like a champ, seeing your latest hissy fit during the six nations was fucking golden.

As for the above, nah mate, not really, I’m pretty fucking disappointed in it to be honest. Mainly because we’ve all seen this movie before. Can’t wait to patronised by a member of the other home unions. Sucking air through their teeth... ah well, you know... it’s a 50:50 call... yeah... sure it is.

For clarity, still a Lions fan, will travel no matter what. Doesn’t mean I don’t think Gatland is the wrong man for the job.

Glad to see you're alive catman.