1872 Cup Champions

[hugh_woatmeigh]

I'm not as positive as some on this. He's an upgrade and I'd expect Edinburgh to improve anyway but not that exciting especially with Hodge staying. Might well do a good job, just waiting to be convinced. Good they have it finalised anyway

I'm in the opposite camp. Edinburgh's problem isn't that they're not talented or intelligent.. it's that they're mentally fragile and their heads drop far too easily. 2 years with Cockerill will be perfect to stamp that out. Once that period is over they can have a think about where they want to go next.

[Big D]

The reality is that Edinburgh are the worst non Italian club in the PRO12. Hodge has shown nothing to suggest he could turn it around, and to be honest he and the other coaches are reasonably lucky to keep their jobs.

Cockerill should be able to attract players that Hodge couldn't, even if his reputation was damaged by the way things ended t the Tigers. Although Johnson v Cockerill on signings could be fun.

[switchskier]

Bugger, not keen on this appointment at all. Cockerill ultimately took Leicester backwards, signed a whole load of poor quality southern hemisphere journeymen and spent most of the past few seasons complaining about just about everything. The Leicester academy has gone from being the core of their club to pushing talented players out of the door.

[Big D]

Bugger, not keen on this appointment at all. Cockerill ultimately took Leicester backwards, signed a whole load of poor quality southern hemisphere journeymen and spent most of the past few seasons complaining about just about everything. The Leicester academy has gone from being the core of their club to pushing talented players out of the door.

I am not sure it is as clear cut at that. After slagging the suggestion of RC at the start I have had a wee look. Leicester may have gone backwards but they are still up 'til this season a club that has finished top 4 every year RC has been in charge and regularly got out of the ECC group stages. Aaron Mauger seems to have escaped a lot of the blame for this seasons mess. Interestingly it was RC who realised something was needing to change before Mauger came in and it was RC who recruited him and realised there was a potential difference in philosophy but welcomed it. I like that, he identified an issue and tried to deal with it. He got it wrong thinking they could work together effectively but he wasn't blind to the situation.

What isn't clear is how much of an input did RC have in the academy. At a fans night, their Rugby Operations Head Ged Glynn gave a talk where he spoke about regrets he had when he let Perry Humphreys, Alex Lewington and Henry Purdy go over the last few years. Glynn also said Fonua was his signing so RC didn't have responsibility for all signings either. Other than Ford are there that many Leicester academy graduates playing at a high level elsewhere?

The clubs with sugar daddy's are also flashing the cash which the Tigers can't compete with for Marquee players (the Bath guy driving for a 2nd Marquee player, Wasps spending plenty of money, Bristol paying Luatua 600k etc.). Leicester are a PLC and run like one. But even allowing for that RC has to take plenty of the blame for recruitment and also the fact that things clearly got stale and he was clearly too loyal to Croft and Manu for example.

All of that being said. He is not being asked nor expected to win competitions as a primary objective, he wont have final say on transfers (that is Johnsons role), and he wont have time to be too loyal to anyone. He is being asked to get a team that is 10th best in the league to improve, probably to a point for someone else to take over in 2 years. He has the mindset that if the players buy in to his way of thinking there should be a sharp improvement fairly quickly. It could do some of the young players a lot of good.

[switchskier]

Bugger, not keen on this appointment at all. Cockerill ultimately took Leicester backwards, signed a whole load of poor quality southern hemisphere journeymen and spent most of the past few seasons complaining about just about everything. The Leicester academy has gone from being the core of their club to pushing talented players out of the door.

I am not sure it is as clear cut at that. After slagging the suggestion of RC at the start I have had a wee look. Leicester may have gone backwards but they are still up 'til this season a club that has finished top 4 every year RC has been in charge and regularly got out of the ECC group stages. Aaron Mauger seems to have escaped a lot of the blame for this seasons mess. Interestingly it was RC who realised something was needing to change before Mauger came in and it was RC who recruited him and realised there was a potential difference in philosophy but welcomed it. I like that, he identified an issue and tried to deal with it. He got it wrong thinking they could work together effectively but he wasn't blind to the situation.

What isn't clear is how much of an input did RC have in the academy. At a fans night, their Rugby Operations Head Ged Glynn gave a talk where he spoke about regrets he had when he let Perry Humphreys, Alex Lewington and Henry Purdy go over the last few years. Glynn also said Fonua was his signing so RC didn't have responsibility for all signings either. Other than Ford are there that many Leicester academy graduates playing at a high level elsewhere?

The clubs with sugar daddy's are also flashing the cash which the Tigers can't compete with for Marquee players (the Bath guy driving for a 2nd Marquee player, Wasps spending plenty of money, Bristol paying Luatua 600k etc.). Leicester are a PLC and run like one. But even allowing for that RC has to take plenty of the blame for recruitment and also the fact that things clearly got stale and he was clearly too loyal to Croft and Manu for example.

All of that being said. He is not being asked nor expected to win competitions as a primary objective, he wont have final say on transfers (that is Johnsons role), and he wont have time to be too loyal to anyone. He is being asked to get a team that is 10th best in the league to improve, probably to a point for someone else to take over in 2 years. He has the mindset that if the players buy in to his way of thinking there should be a sharp improvement fairly quickly. It could do some of the young players a lot of good.

Given the size of the club Leicester should be top four and competitive in Europe at a minimum. Salary cap means that they should be competitive and doesn't explain their constant habit of picking up mediocre players. It also has nothing to do with the way he constantly complains about referees and officials when his team loses which Edinburgh really don't need.

Sorry, am as underwhelmed by this as by the hiring of Solomon's.

[Croft_No.5]

Richard Cockerill wants to instil direction, leadership and steel into his new Edinburgh side when he takes over as head coach from next season.

The bullish former Leicester Tigers director of rugby has signed a two-year deal with Scottish Rugby.

Cockerill is savouring the opportunity to shape and propel a side languishing in the Pro12's lower reaches.




"Edinburgh's had less attention than Glasgow, and it's probably lost its way a little bit," he told BBC Scotland.

Cockerill added: "They want a little bit more direction and I think I can give that. I'm a pretty strong character and leader.



Edinburgh & Glasgow in Pro12 - last five years


Season

Edinburgh

Glasgow


2015-16 9th 3rd
2014-15 8th 1st (champions)
2013-14 8th 2nd (finalists)
2012-13 10th 3rd
2011-12 11th 4th

"I want to come and make a difference. I want Edinburgh to be successful. That's not going to happen overnight, but I've got a very strong work ethic, the players will have to work very hard, want to improve and want to win.

"I'm a person that wants to win. However, the reality is that's going to take some time.

"From the inception of the Pro12, Edinburgh have not finished above eighth, so there's clearly got to be a little bit of sorting out to do. There's no way of sugar-coating it, we have to improve."

'There are going to be a lot of robust conversations'

Cockerill, the former England hooker who spent almost his entire playing and coaching career at Leicester, guided the Tigers to three Aviva Premiership titles before being sacked in January.

Moving from an independently run, wealthy giant of English rugby to work under the aegis of the Scottish Rugby Union, and its director of rugby Scott Johnson, will present a new set of challenges.



Richard Cockerill

Cockerill, centre, made 250 appearances for Leicester as a hooker

"I've had good conversations with Scott and Mark Dodson [Scottish Rugby's chief executive], and I know exactly how that's going to work with the union and the national side," Cockerill said.

"I think I have a good relationship with both of them. I think there are going to be a lot of robust conversations around how things need to be done moving forward and I think that's a healthy thing.



Former Leicester Tigers and England flanker Lewis Moody, speaking to BBC Scotland


The relationship between Richard and Scott Johnson will be all-important. Richard is a very forthright coach, he speaks his mind, he's good at listening to players.
I'm absolutely fascinated to see how it goes. He has a very clear way of doing things. He has changed and adapted over the years, but he's a simple coach in the most positive sense.
He will certainly be a hard taskmaster and ruffle a few feathers. I think the guys need to be prepared for doing a little bit more contact than they've ever done in their lives!
He will relish the opportunity to develop some young talent, and instilling some proper bite and rawness - that's what Edinburgh fans can look forward to.

"The player base they've got, the budget and dynamics are different to what I'm used to, but that's good for me. I'm a pretty strong character and I know what I want."

Home-grown talent the priority

In Edinburgh, Cockerill will be bound by greater financial constraints, a less illustrious playing roster than Leicester or Toulon - where is currently a consultant - and tasked with the aim of producing players of sufficient quality to represent Scotland.

He can't yet say where the squad needs augmented, but emphasises that his priority, where possible, will be to field Scottish talent.

"You have to understand where you sit, what you can and can't buy, and what you can't buy you have to create," Cockerill continued.



Magnus Bradbury

Back-row Magnus Bradbury is among Edinburgh's burgeoning talents, earning his Scotland debut in November

"There are lots of players I signed at Leicester that nobody had ever heard of that ended up being exceptionally good - that's going to have to be the case at Edinburgh.

"I signed Ed Slater from Australia - an Englishman who'd played for Nottingham, now he's a mainstay of the Leicester team and toured with England.

"Geoff Parling was on the bench for Newcastle when I signed him - within 12 months he was an international.

"If you have the choice, you will always have local-grown, Edinburgh, Scottish boys playing for your team because that means more to them than anything else. There's nothing better or stronger as a bond than trying to get those types of players into your team.



Geoff Parling

Geoff Parling, who Cockerill signed for Leicester Tigers, became a British and Irish Lion in 2013

"There's a lot of young quality in that side that needs to be nurtured and brought through. I don't want Edinburgh to be a holding ground waiting for the Test matches to arrive; I want Edinburgh to be a successful team and I want players that want to play for Edinburgh first and foremost."

Physicality first

Edinburgh's overarching game-plan has long been in a state of oscillation.

Michael Bradley's reign yielded glittering running rugby, but calamitous defence. Alan Solomons, his successor, brought rigidity and grunt, but little else besides. Interim boss Duncan Hodge, in charge since September, is trying to restore a little attacking freedom, but has only won three of 11 Pro12 matches.

"I think Duncan's done a very good job in making the team more expansive and that will continue," Cockerill said. "But clearly we have to develop our players and make sure we're resilient, tough, competitive and robust - all the things the game is built on.



Alan Solomons

Alan Solomons stood down as Edinburgh head coach in September last year

"Clearly, things are going to have to be done a little bit differently, because for whatever reason it's not worked as successfully as people would've liked.

"You have to start somewhere and somewhere is normally a good set-piece, physically committed players, and making sure you're always in the battle. That's something as a player I was always very good at, and most of the time, the sides I've coached have always been very difficult to beat, and I think that's important.

"You have to have a really good balance in your game, and I think Edinburgh have got the players and personnel to do that. I don't think there is one way of playing the game.



Duncan Hodge

Duncan Hodge, centre, is in interim charge of Edinburgh, and will revert to his previous role of backs coach when Cockerill arrives

"The All Blacks are the best team in the world - they kick the ball more than anyone else. It's how, why and when you kick the ball.

"I know people will think I will want to be just combative - yeah, I want to be combative and have a strong set-piece, but I want to have a side that can play with ball in hand as well, because that will win you games, and win you big games."

[Mikey Brown]

Is that the cover letter be sent in?

[Cameo]

Is this thing about the all blacks kicking the ball more than anyone else even true. It was a stat that came out before an AI series about 5 years ago and has since been interpreted to mean anything and everything. I am curious whether it is even true any more.

Other than that, sensible comments from Cockerill

[whatisthejava]

Think Cockerill needs a break, i think he has struggled at Leciester but the slow decline is also consitent with the increase of sugar daddys in the AP and French Top 14. I think Cockerill probabbly could outspend 5 years ago but since then has struggled.

A good comparision is Toonie where on his first few years got some absolute gems for peanuts but this season his luck has ran out and the dross really isnt good enough when you take most of the starting team away and some core injuries.

Edinburgh need to now find their own club atmosphere, like Glasgow have, they have a good wee stadium and need to make their fans pasionate about what they are watching, i think Cockeril could take that club forward for 2 years in the same way Lineen and Toonie did for Glasgow

[hugh_woatmeigh]

Think Cockerill needs a break, i think he has struggled at Leciester but the slow decline is also consitent with the increase of sugar daddys in the AP and French Top 14. I think Cockerill probabbly could outspend 5 years ago but since then has struggled.

A good comparision is Toonie where on his first few years got some absolute gems for peanuts but this season his luck has ran out and the dross really isnt good enough when you take most of the starting team away and some core injuries.

Edinburgh need to now find their own club atmosphere, like Glasgow have, they have a good wee stadium and need to make their fans pasionate about what they are watching, i think Cockeril could take that club forward for 2 years in the same way Lineen and Toonie did for Glasgow

Glasgow are a victim of their own success and essentially provide most of the national squad. No team can recover from that.

Very unfair comment but I won't derail the Edinburgh thread any more.

[Adder]

Think Cockerill needs a break, i think he has struggled at Leciester but the slow decline is also consitent with the increase of sugar daddys in the AP and French Top 14. I think Cockerill probabbly could outspend 5 years ago but since then has struggled.

A good comparision is Toonie where on his first few years got some absolute gems for peanuts but this season his luck has ran out and the dross really isnt good enough when you take most of the starting team away and some core injuries.

Edinburgh need to now find their own club atmosphere, like Glasgow have, they have a good wee stadium and need to make their fans pasionate about what they are watching, i think Cockeril could take that club forward for 2 years in the same way Lineen and Toonie did for Glasgow

Glasgow are a victim of their own success and essentially provide most of the national squad. No team can recover from that.

Very unfair comment but I won't derail the Edinburgh thread any more.

Toulouse through the 2000 decade

[Big D]

Darcy Graham signs on a 2 year deal apparently. Good to see an academy graduate come through. McCallum should sign too at somepoint I hope.

[Adder]

Darcy Graham signs on a 2 year deal apparently. Good to see an academy graduate come through. McCallum should sign too at somepoint I hope.

Only video I could find

[switchskier]

Darcy Graham signs on a 2 year deal apparently. Good to see an academy graduate come through. McCallum should sign too at somepoint I hope.

Yup, looks exciting. We could have some real pace on the wings with Graham and Hoyland but our problems are probably further infield. Also whatever happened to that young Aussie winger that we signed?

Anyways teams for tonight. Does anyone care anymore? Looks a desperate attempt to find some combinations that work in the backs.

Edinburgh: Blair Kinghorn, Damien Hoyland, Glenn Bryce, Chris Dean, Rory Scholes, Jason Tovey, Sam Hidalgo-Clyne; Jack Cosgrove, Neil Cochrane (captain), Murray McCallum, Fraser McKenzie, Ben Toolis, Magnus Bradbury, Jamie Ritchie, Cornell Du Preez

Replacements: George Turner, Derrick Appiah, Kevin Bryce, Grant Gilchrist, Lewis Carmichael, Nathan Fowles, Junior Rasolea, Michael Allen

Cardiff Blues: Matthew Morgan; Alex Cuthbert, Willis Halaholo, Steve Shingler, Tom James; Gareth Anscombe, Lloyd Williams; Rhys Gill, Kristian Dacey, Anton Peikrishvili, George Earle, Jarrad Hoeata, Macauley Cook, Josh Sion Bennett, Nick Williams.

Replacements: Matthew Rees, Corey Domachowski, Scott Andrews, James Down, Kirby Myhill, Tomos Williams, Garyn Smith, Aled Summerhill.

[Big D]

Notham played in Russia in the cup. Had a cancer scare this season too.

Scored plenty of tries for Gala IIRC.

[switchskier]

Notham played in Russia in the cup. Had a cancer scare this season too.

Scored plenty of tries for Gala IIRC.

I missed the cancer thing but good to hear that he's at least playing.

Some Graham clips on the Edinburgh Twitter feed. Looks fast enough that prem rugby was simple enough for him, that won't work as well at the next step up but excited to see what he's got.

[Cameo]

Darcy Graham signs on a 2 year deal apparently. Good to see an academy graduate come through. McCallum should sign too at somepoint I hope.

Yup, looks exciting. We could have some real pace on the wings with Graham and Hoyland but our problems are probably further infield. Also whatever happened to that young Aussie winger that we signed?

Anyways teams for tonight. Does anyone care anymore? Looks a desperate attempt to find some combinations that work in the backs.

Edinburgh: Blair Kinghorn, Damien Hoyland, Glenn Bryce, Chris Dean, Rory Scholes, Jason Tovey, Sam Hidalgo-Clyne; Jack Cosgrove, Neil Cochrane (captain), Murray McCallum, Fraser McKenzie, Ben Toolis, Magnus Bradbury, Jamie Ritchie, Cornell Du Preez

Replacements: George Turner, Derrick Appiah, Kevin Bryce, Grant Gilchrist, Lewis Carmichael, Nathan Fowles, Junior Rasolea, Michael Allen

Cardiff Blues: Matthew Morgan; Alex Cuthbert, Willis Halaholo, Steve Shingler, Tom James; Gareth Anscombe, Lloyd Williams; Rhys Gill, Kristian Dacey, Anton Peikrishvili, George Earle, Jarrad Hoeata, Macauley Cook, Josh Sion Bennett, Nick Williams.

Replacements: Matthew Rees, Corey Domachowski, Scott Andrews, James Down, Kirby Myhill, Tomos Williams, Garyn Smith, Aled Summerhill.

Going down tonight, partly to see how myreside works out. Still some youngsters in that team im interested in seeing and should be winnable

[OptimisticJock]

Does anyone care anymore?

Aye. Just can't be arsed with the videos they post so wait until someone does the leg work with the team sheet.

[OptimisticJock]

Any you cunts about?

[Mikey Brown]

Has Bryce played anywhere other than fullback before? I just really like his running style.

[OptimisticJock]

Think he has for the weegies

[Edinburgh in Exile]

Any you cunts about?

Aye, lurking, have it on in the background as I've a rake of work to do.

Seem to be just going from one side to the other right now. Someone needs to put in a better angle, or at least work the overlap better.

[OptimisticJock]

Any you cunts about?

Aye, lurking, have it on in the background as I've a rake of work to do.

Seem to be just going from one side to the other right now. Someone needs to put in a better angle, or at least work the overlap better.

BF1 ain't work.

[Edinburgh in Exile]

Looked like the embra player was unbound from that previous maul, and then blocked the Cardiff lad. I think that first penas should have gone the other way.

[Edinburgh in Exile]

Any you cunts about?

Aye, lurking, have it on in the background as I've a rake of work to do.

Seem to be just going from one side to the other right now. Someone needs to put in a better angle, or at least work the overlap better.

BF1 ain't work.

Ha, It is if you are as shite at it as me. I'm waiting on the DLC to get back into that.

Bit penas happy this ref.