Sandydragon wrote:Hogg was unfortunate to get injured, but was he looking like a test starter before Murray elbowed him? Watson did his chances no harm that's for sure.
Well this was his game to show something, I don't feel like he got far enough in to the game to do anything much, good or bad, though threatened the outside break once or twice I think.
I can't really recall if we saw Watson have to do anything in defence, and that's where he really worries me, even in comparison to Hogg. He looked good going forward though.
Son of Mathonwy wrote:And so we see Gatland's plan, not that comes as any surprise. This is what he'd like Wales to do but we're not quite big enough to dominate like this.
But as with Wales, I don't see it working against the ABs. They'll score tries. If we don't, we won't get enough points on the board to win. As we in Wales have wondered for the last decade, what does Howley actually do??
Meanwhile Scotland & England played some very positive rugby at the weekend. The tour was doomed the minute Gatland was selected.
Son of Mathonwy wrote:And so we see Gatland's plan, not that comes as any surprise. This is what he'd like Wales to do but we're not quite big enough to dominate like this.
But as with Wales, I don't see it working against the ABs. They'll score tries. If we don't, we won't get enough points on the board to win. As we in Wales have wondered for the last decade, what does Howley actually do??
Meanwhile Scotland & England played some very positive rugby at the weekend. The tour was doomed the minute Gatland was selected.
As most of us said...
Yet the board is full of people lauding an improved performance against the crusaders as if kicking an extra pen or two will make a difference against the ABs.
Credit where it's due, the Lions have improved every game.
Match 1 weakness: individual skill
Match 2 weakness: implementing game plan, especially defensively
Match 3 weakness: converting defensive, possessive and territorial dominance into tries.
______________________
Dominating the SHMB
======================
Crusaders were dire. A team that's been winning games through efficiency suddenly lost it. They weren't helped by the ref not knowing his arse from his elbow at scrum but they were just poor.
The Lions forwards were better at the breakdown. The backs created chances but couldn't finish them. That's not entirely surprising with JD2 there. We're going to need to finish pretty much every chance we get to beat the ABs.
I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person.
Eugene Wrayburn wrote:Crusaders were dire. A team that's been winning games through efficiency suddenly lost it. They weren't helped by the ref not knowing his arse from his elbow at scrum but they were just poor.
The Lions forwards were better at the breakdown. The backs created chances but couldn't finish them. That's not entirely surprising with JD2 there. We're going to need to finish pretty much every chance we get to beat the ABs.
The Lions have possibly shown too much come scrum time, they were just effing about at the engage, backing off. When the referee got the scrum sorted the one and only time the Lions got destroyed. The series is going to be a tad tasty up front I think.
Eugene Wrayburn wrote:Crusaders were dire. A team that's been winning games through efficiency suddenly lost it. They weren't helped by the ref not knowing his arse from his elbow at scrum but they were just poor.
The Lions forwards were better at the breakdown. The backs created chances but couldn't finish them. That's not entirely surprising with JD2 there. We're going to need to finish pretty much every chance we get to beat the ABs.
I think your probably letting your dislike of Foxy affect your judgment, considering he wasn't on the field for most of the game. I suppose the Scarlets success is despite him being a crucial part of the team.
Eugene Wrayburn wrote:Crusaders were dire. A team that's been winning games through efficiency suddenly lost it. They weren't helped by the ref not knowing his arse from his elbow at scrum but they were just poor.
The Lions forwards were better at the breakdown. The backs created chances but couldn't finish them. That's not entirely surprising with JD2 there. We're going to need to finish pretty much every chance we get to beat the ABs.
I think your probably letting your dislike of Foxy affect your judgment, considering he wasn't on the field for most of the game. I suppose the Scarlets success is despite him being a crucial part of the team.
He screwed up 2 gilt-edged chances. How would you describe his contribution?
Eta. I don't dislike him at all. He seems like a perfectly nice chap, unlike say Biggar. He's just not very good at the core skills of an international centre.
I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person.
Eugene Wrayburn wrote:Crusaders were dire. A team that's been winning games through efficiency suddenly lost it. They weren't helped by the ref not knowing his arse from his elbow at scrum but they were just poor.
The Lions forwards were better at the breakdown. The backs created chances but couldn't finish them. That's not entirely surprising with JD2 there. We're going to need to finish pretty much every chance we get to beat the ABs.
I think your probably letting your dislike of Foxy affect your judgment, considering he wasn't on the field for most of the game. I suppose the Scarlets success is despite him being a crucial part of the team.
Chris Ashton, Brad Barritt and Alex Goode were crucial parts of Saracens' success. Doesn't mean that they've not got weakness that are exposed at international level.
Eugene Wrayburn wrote:Crusaders were dire. A team that's been winning games through efficiency suddenly lost it. They weren't helped by the ref not knowing his arse from his elbow at scrum but they were just poor.
The Lions forwards were better at the breakdown. The backs created chances but couldn't finish them. That's not entirely surprising with JD2 there. We're going to need to finish pretty much every chance we get to beat the ABs.
I think your probably letting your dislike of Foxy affect your judgment, considering he wasn't on the field for most of the game. I suppose the Scarlets success is despite him being a crucial part of the team.
Chris Ashton, Brad Barritt and Alex Goode were crucial parts of Saracens' success. Doesn't mean that they've not got weakness that are exposed at international level.
Puja
I do feel Davies get some unwarranted stick really. He has played well for Wales and against England yet he gets dismissed He also have previous for the Lions and i thought he looked very good for the Scarlets at the end of the season.
Eugene Wrayburn wrote:Crusaders were dire. A team that's been winning games through efficiency suddenly lost it. They weren't helped by the ref not knowing his arse from his elbow at scrum but they were just poor.
The Lions forwards were better at the breakdown. The backs created chances but couldn't finish them. That's not entirely surprising with JD2 there. We're going to need to finish pretty much every chance we get to beat the ABs.
I think your probably letting your dislike of Foxy affect your judgment, considering he wasn't on the field for most of the game. I suppose the Scarlets success is despite him being a crucial part of the team.
He screwed up 2 gilt-edged chances. How would you describe his contribution?
Eta. I don't dislike him at all. He seems like a perfectly nice chap, unlike say Biggar. He's just not very good at the core skills of an international centre.
How did he screw up the first one? He admittedly dropped the ball through contact on the second occasion(which he had to go off after because he suffered a blow to the head in contact, perhaps a mitigation for dropping it?). You say you don't dislike him but you and Stom are still sore about BOD being dropped 4 years on, get over it Eugene.
Every pundit I've seen said he looked promising for the time he was on the pitch Saturday but I doubt any of them have your rugby intellect of course.
bruce wrote:
I think your probably letting your dislike of Foxy affect your judgment, considering he wasn't on the field for most of the game. I suppose the Scarlets success is despite him being a crucial part of the team.
He screwed up 2 gilt-edged chances. How would you describe his contribution?
Eta. I don't dislike him at all. He seems like a perfectly nice chap, unlike say Biggar. He's just not very good at the core skills of an international centre.
How did he screw up the first one? He admittedly dropped the ball through contact on the second occasion(which he had to go off after because he suffered a blow to the head in contact, perhaps a mitigation for dropping it?). You say you don't dislike him but you and Stom are still sore about BOD being dropped 4 years on, get over it Eugene.
Every pundit I've seen said he looked promising for the time he was on the pitch Saturday but I doubt any of them have your rugby intellect of course.
Eugene Wrayburn wrote:
He screwed up 2 gilt-edged chances. How would you describe his contribution?
Eta. I don't dislike him at all. He seems like a perfectly nice chap, unlike say Biggar. He's just not very good at the core skills of an international centre.
How did he screw up the first one? He admittedly dropped the ball through contact on the second occasion(which he had to go off after because he suffered a blow to the head in contact, perhaps a mitigation for dropping it?). You say you don't dislike him but you and Stom are still sore about BOD being dropped 4 years on, get over it Eugene.
Every pundit I've seen said he looked promising for the time he was on the pitch Saturday but I doubt any of them have your rugby intellect of course.
The one where he passed to the oppo winger?!?!?
Now how could that be a screw up...
I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person.
bruce wrote:
I think your probably letting your dislike of Foxy affect your judgment, considering he wasn't on the field for most of the game. I suppose the Scarlets success is despite him being a crucial part of the team.
He screwed up 2 gilt-edged chances. How would you describe his contribution?
Eta. I don't dislike him at all. He seems like a perfectly nice chap, unlike say Biggar. He's just not very good at the core skills of an international centre.
How did he screw up the first one? He admittedly dropped the ball through contact on the second occasion(which he had to go off after because he suffered a blow to the head in contact, perhaps a mitigation for dropping it?). You say you don't dislike him but you and Stom are still sore about BOD being dropped 4 years on, get over it Eugene.
Every pundit I've seen said he looked promising for the time he was on the pitch Saturday but I doubt any of them have your rugby intellect of course.
Pundits seem to universally think that Farrell is in the top dozen rugby players on the planet. You agree with that?
I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person.
Eugene Wrayburn wrote:
He screwed up 2 gilt-edged chances. How would you describe his contribution?
Eta. I don't dislike him at all. He seems like a perfectly nice chap, unlike say Biggar. He's just not very good at the core skills of an international centre.
How did he screw up the first one? He admittedly dropped the ball through contact on the second occasion(which he had to go off after because he suffered a blow to the head in contact, perhaps a mitigation for dropping it?). You say you don't dislike him but you and Stom are still sore about BOD being dropped 4 years on, get over it Eugene.
Every pundit I've seen said he looked promising for the time he was on the pitch Saturday but I doubt any of them have your rugby intellect of course.
The one where he passed to the oppo winger?!?!?
Who was inbetween him and North, what should he have done, taken contact? if that's the case I wouldn't say it was a gilt edged chance but that the crusaders winger had positioned himself very well defensively.
Eugene Wrayburn wrote:
He screwed up 2 gilt-edged chances. How would you describe his contribution?
Eta. I don't dislike him at all. He seems like a perfectly nice chap, unlike say Biggar. He's just not very good at the core skills of an international centre.
How did he screw up the first one? He admittedly dropped the ball through contact on the second occasion(which he had to go off after because he suffered a blow to the head in contact, perhaps a mitigation for dropping it?). You say you don't dislike him but you and Stom are still sore about BOD being dropped 4 years on, get over it Eugene.
Every pundit I've seen said he looked promising for the time he was on the pitch Saturday but I doubt any of them have your rugby intellect of course.
Pundits seem to universally think that Farrell is in the top dozen rugby players on the planet. You agree with that?
Numbers wrote:
How did he screw up the first one? He admittedly dropped the ball through contact on the second occasion(which he had to go off after because he suffered a blow to the head in contact, perhaps a mitigation for dropping it?). You say you don't dislike him but you and Stom are still sore about BOD being dropped 4 years on, get over it Eugene.
Every pundit I've seen said he looked promising for the time he was on the pitch Saturday but I doubt any of them have your rugby intellect of course.
The one where he passed to the oppo winger?!?!?
Who was inbetween him and North, what should he have done, taken contact? if that's the case I wouldn't say it was a gilt edged chance but that the crusaders winger had positioned himself very well defensively.
Yep, take the contact. We'd breached the defence and from there you'd hope we'd score. You definately won't score if you give the oppo the ball.
Mellsblue wrote:
The one where he passed to the oppo winger?!?!?
Who was inbetween him and North, what should he have done, taken contact? if that's the case I wouldn't say it was a gilt edged chance but that the crusaders winger had positioned himself very well defensively.
Yep, take the contact. We'd breached the defence and from there you'd hope we'd score. You definately won't score if you give the oppo the ball.
Ok, in that case I would suggest that this wasn't a gilt-edged chance, of course his running angle allowed him to make the break in the first place but lets not let that get in the way of the JD bashing.
To give you an idea we had I think 15 clean line breaks v the Blues and scored one try, I think on Saturday it was something along the lines of 11 and we scored no tries, so scoring from the advanced position that you 'hope' we would have converted from would be wishful thinking I suspect, see the numerous times we have failed to convert from 5 yards out as an example.
No-one seems to be bashing Stander for taking his eye off the ball completely with the line begging, or Te'o's hopeless pass to Williams, ditto Watson.
If you want to critcise then try to do it with a measure of perspective.
Numbers wrote:
Who was inbetween him and North, what should he have done, taken contact? if that's the case I wouldn't say it was a gilt edged chance but that the crusaders winger had positioned himself very well defensively.
Yep, take the contact. We'd breached the defence and from there you'd hope we'd score. You definately won't score if you give the oppo the ball.
Ok, in that case I would suggest that this wasn't a gilt-edged chance, of course his running angle allowed him to make the break in the first place but lets not let that get in the way of the JD bashing.
To give you an idea we had I think 15 clean line breaks v the Blues and scored one try, I think on Saturday it was something along the lines of 11 and we scored no tries, so scoring from the advanced position that you 'hope' we would have converted from would be wishful thinking I suspect, see the numerous times we have failed to convert from 5 yards out as an example.
No-one seems to be bashing Stander for taking his eye off the ball completely with the line begging, or Te'o's hopeless pass to Williams, ditto Watson.
If you want to critcise then try to do it with a measure of perspective.
I'll criticise them all but I'm not going to write a list of all those who've ****ed up just so I can point out that Davies ****ed up. I'm still angry with Kay for dropping the ball over the line in the 2003 World Cup final but maybe I should just be happy he had the ability to stand out there to create the opportunity in the first place.
Just because we've failed to convert so many line breaks doesn't take away from the fact that it's a try scoring opportunity. Any line break in the oppo's 22 should be considered a try scoring opportunity.
When it comes down to it it was a big mistake. We won't have many scoring opportunities in the tests and one that good should not be squandered with such a poor piece of execution.
Just to show I'm not completely one sided, I was very pleased that he didn't fire it into row F of the crowd as he normally does off his left hand.
Mellsblue wrote:
The one where he passed to the oppo winger?!?!?
Who was inbetween him and North, what should he have done, taken contact? if that's the case I wouldn't say it was a gilt edged chance but that the crusaders winger had positioned himself very well defensively.
Yep, take the contact. We'd breached the defence and from there you'd hope we'd score. You definately won't score if you give the oppo the ball.
And against the ABs or the more lively franchises there's every chance they will.
I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person.
Numbers wrote:
Who was inbetween him and North, what should he have done, taken contact? if that's the case I wouldn't say it was a gilt edged chance but that the crusaders winger had positioned himself very well defensively.
Yep, take the contact. We'd breached the defence and from there you'd hope we'd score. You definately won't score if you give the oppo the ball.
And against the ABs or the more lively franchises there's every chance they will.
Mellsblue wrote:
Yep, take the contact. We'd breached the defence and from there you'd hope we'd score. You definately won't score if you give the oppo the ball.
Ok, in that case I would suggest that this wasn't a gilt-edged chance, of course his running angle allowed him to make the break in the first place but lets not let that get in the way of the JD bashing.
To give you an idea we had I think 15 clean line breaks v the Blues and scored one try, I think on Saturday it was something along the lines of 11 and we scored no tries, so scoring from the advanced position that you 'hope' we would have converted from would be wishful thinking I suspect, see the numerous times we have failed to convert from 5 yards out as an example.
No-one seems to be bashing Stander for taking his eye off the ball completely with the line begging, or Te'o's hopeless pass to Williams, ditto Watson.
If you want to critcise then try to do it with a measure of perspective.
I'll criticise them all but I'm not going to write a list of all those who've ****ed up just so I can point out that Davies ****ed up. I'm still angry with Kay for dropping the ball over the line in the 2003 World Cup final but maybe I should just be happy he had the ability to stand out there to create the opportunity in the first place.
Just because we've failed to convert so many line breaks doesn't take away from the fact that it's a try scoring opportunity. Any line break in the oppo's 22 should be considered a try scoring opportunity.
When it comes down to it it was a big mistake. We won't have many scoring opportunities in the tests and one that good should not be squandered with such a poor piece of execution.
Just to show I'm not completely one sided, I was very pleased that he didn't fire it into row F of the crowd as he normally does off his left hand.
You can continue as you are, just don't expect anyone to take you seriously if you just have an agenda.
Here's what Guscott said: "Jonathan Davies is also in such good form that he is likely to start in the Test matches and they will want to get him back as quickly as possible."
I wouldn't think you have any respect for him either,, not one pundit has criticised Davies to my knowledge and as previously stated there were bigger mistakes from other players imo which have been glossed over, but lets not let any facts disrupt the witch hunt.
