Scotland v Ireland - 9 February 2019

[Big D]

Thought Laidlaw was embarrassing moaning about the ref.

Front up and take it on the chin. As soon as you moan about the ref it doesn't matter what you say after.

[SerjeantWildgoose]

Peter O'Mahoney limited? Yer talking utter bollocks, Paddy.

POM combines pugnacity and leadership with skills and a playing nous that frankly put him in that very exclusive strata of players that are just that little bit better than any of us care to admit. There has been a lot of crap talked on this thread about POM. The Jocks are welcome to hate the man (lets be frank, there are plenty of theirs that I dislike intensely), but to call him limited is just bollocks.

And it could have been a penalty, but watching live I was howling that Hogg dived. Poite got plenty wrong today but to subject that incident to the Zapruta-tape autopsy technique does a disservice to everyone who had to make decisions in real time. Don't be so quick to forget that Sexton had to leave the park today because of a failed HIA resulting from more than one late hit. These things happen in the game.

And yous feckers still haven't apologised for trying to strangle ROG. HE COULD O DOID!!!!!

[Adder]

Tataaaa

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[OptimisticJock]

[SerjeantWildgoose]

Biggest laff of the day was in the build up when the BBC showed an extract of the Rory best documentary. First off there is Rory out walking the dogs; he bends down to pick up the dog's toy and knocks on, he then picks it up and throws it - crooked. Cut to Rory in his house in a room with Ireland jerseys all over the walls. He talks us through the jerseys he wore for his first start, his first try, his first game as captain and his GS jerseys. Then he talks about the jerseys he wore in some of the more seminal losses. Cut to the panel.

Invertwat - Rory Best has a room full of jerseys he wore when he lost so that he can learn from them! Martin, did you have a room of losing jerseys?

Martin Johnson - It'd be a small room.

POC - Oh Jaysus!

Nicol - I'd have had to have an extension built on the house.

[paddy no 11]

Mahony is limited in ways pace handling etc but I lauded his other skills his pugnacious and leadership. Youd hate to play against him no doubt

[SerjeantWildgoose]

I'd hate to play with him! I'm an idle hoore and he'd flay the fecking hide off me.

[Donny osmond]

Peter O'Mahoney limited? Yer talking utter bollocks, Paddy.

POM combines pugnacity and leadership with skills and a playing nous that frankly put him in that very exclusive strata of players that are just that little bit better than any of us care to admit. There has been a lot of crap talked on this thread about POM. The Jocks are welcome to hate the man (lets be frank, there are plenty of theirs that I dislike intensely), but to call him limited is just bollocks.

And it could have been a penalty, but watching live I was howling that Hogg dived. Poite got plenty wrong today but to subject that incident to the Zapruta-tape autopsy technique does a disservice to everyone who had to make decisions in real time. Don't be so quick to forget that Sexton had to leave the park today because of a failed HIA resulting from more than one late hit. These things happen in the game.

And yous feckers still haven't apologised for trying to strangle ROG. HE COULD O DOID!!!!!

Isnt part of the point of having a TMO that they can take a look at incidents like what happened to hogg and sexton as the ref cant be expected to see everything? Not sure that "these things happen" is really good enough in this day and age. For what its worth I was pretty disgusted with the crowd booing the ref when the quality of rugby was much more worthy of public derision.

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[ARM]

Peter O'Mahoney limited? Yer talking utter bollocks, Paddy.

POM combines pugnacity and leadership with skills and a playing nous that frankly put him in that very exclusive strata of players that are just that little bit better than any of us care to admit. There has been a lot of crap talked on this thread about POM. The Jocks are welcome to hate the man (lets be frank, there are plenty of theirs that I dislike intensely), but to call him limited is just bollocks.

And it could have been a penalty, but watching live I was howling that Hogg dived. Poite got plenty wrong today but to subject that incident to the Zapruta-tape autopsy technique does a disservice to everyone who had to make decisions in real time. Don't be so quick to forget that Sexton had to leave the park today because of a failed HIA resulting from more than one late hit. These things happen in the game.

And yous feckers still haven't apologised for trying to strangle ROG. HE COULD O DOID!!!!!

Sexton. He has become some untouchable deity.

He got tackled hard a few times and went off injured. The beeb trying to suggest a perfectly legitimate tackle from Gray was late was embarrassing.

[Spiffy]

POM is an abrasive player and like all other good backrows is constantly living on the edge of legality. It looked to me as though he knew exactly what he was doing and got away with it. I would have had no complaints about a yellow. A pity the incident resulted in Hogg having to leave the field. POM's value to Ireland in terms of leadership, breakdown work, lineout nicking, general skukduggery and total commitment is tremendous. He's a great man to have on your side but an absolute hoooore to play against. I can well understand how opposition supporters feel about him, but Irish fans love him. He has swung many a game for the team.

[SerjeantWildgoose]

Isnt part of the point of having a TMO that they can take a look at incidents like what happened to hogg and sexton as the ref cant be expected to see everything? Not sure that "these things happen" is really good enough in this day and age. For what its worth I was pretty disgusted with the crowd booing the ref when the quality of rugby was much more worthy of public derision.

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Of course the TMO is there to allow the ref to look at incidents of foul play, but my point is that in real time the incident involving Hogg and the incidents involving tardy hits on Sexton did not appear to the on-field officials to merit a second look. If every collision were to result in the game being stopped to allow the ref to review it, we'd soon give up watching.

Of course the TMO can always call the attention of the referee to incidents of foul play, but presumably he felt that there was no call to do so today.

And no, Arm, Sexton is neither untouchable nor a deity. But the criticism of POM over a debatable incident that resulted in Hogg leaving the field injured must just as surely be deserved by those whose tackles, the timing of which is debatable, contributed to Sexton also leaving the field.

[Donny osmond]

Isnt part of the point of having a TMO that they can take a look at incidents like what happened to hogg and sexton as the ref cant be expected to see everything? Not sure that "these things happen" is really good enough in this day and age. For what its worth I was pretty disgusted with the crowd booing the ref when the quality of rugby was much more worthy of public derision.

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Of course the TMO is there to allow the ref to look at incidents of foul play, but my point is that in real time the incident involving Hogg and the incidents involving tardy hits on Sexton did not appear to the on-field officials to merit a second look. If every collision were to result in the game being stopped to allow the ref to review it, we'd soon give up watching.

Of course the TMO can always call the attention of the referee to incidents of foul play, but presumably he felt that there was no call to do so today.

And no, Arm, Sexton is neither untouchable nor a deity. But the criticism of POM over a debatable incident that resulted in Hogg leaving the field injured must just as surely be deserved by those whose tackles, the timing of which is debatable, contributed to Sexton also leaving the field.

For what its worth, I'm of the opinion that rugby should go back to the good old days of the ref being the one and only person with any say and everyone else just has to grow tf up and accept what he says. But if we are to have TMO then lets use them, or else whats the point.

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[SerjeantWildgoose]

I believe that the TMO should be more usefully employed in scanning the various camera feeds to pick out the best looking totty in the crowd so that during breaks in play, when the decapitated and dismembered bodies are being strapped to the gurney, there is something better to look at than today's sorry parade of munters.

[hugh_woatmeigh]

lol @ comparing legal hits on Sexton to the deliberate foul on Hogg. Almost as comical as your input on the Paddy Jackson & Stuart Olding debacle.

Either way, the better team won and congratulations to you all.

[Mikey Brown]

Jesus. Don’t tie this in with the lady Jackson stuff.

[switchskier]

Isnt part of the point of having a TMO that they can take a look at incidents like what happened to hogg and sexton as the ref cant be expected to see everything? Not sure that "these things happen" is really good enough in this day and age. For what its worth I was pretty disgusted with the crowd booing the ref when the quality of rugby was much more worthy of public derision.

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Of course the TMO is there to allow the ref to look at incidents of foul play, but my point is that in real time the incident involving Hogg and the incidents involving tardy hits on Sexton did not appear to the on-field officials to merit a second look. If every collision were to result in the game being stopped to allow the ref to review it, we'd soon give up watching.

Of course the TMO can always call the attention of the referee to incidents of foul play, but presumably he felt that there was no call to do so today.

And no, Arm, Sexton is neither untouchable nor a deity. But the criticism of POM over a debatable incident that resulted in Hogg leaving the field injured must just as surely be deserved by those whose tackles, the timing of which is debatable, contributed to Sexton also leaving the field.

There is a difference though as Sexton is holding the ball, inviting the hit and trying to put a man in space, as he did superbly for Stockdales try. Play like that and you are going to get hit occasionally, the opposition can't just leave him because he might pass it. For Hogg the ball is long gone and he's been taken out in order to kill an attacking opportunity.

I did laugh when Scotland were (correctly) penalised for taking the man out beyond the ball, against Ireland of all teams.

[whatisthejava]

Poite is just not a very good ref. But the French refs are pretty bad right now because of the turgid state of their league.
I have no problem Laidlaw saying Romain doesn’t like Scotland ,

Romain favour the bigger more powerful team that’s just his and the French style , headbuts, cynical play is all part and parcel.

The biggest issue yesterday was our tactics , they were poor and failure to execute.

I think the first try and our failure to get points at the end of the half were what killed us.

On a final note expect raynol to be dropped , he dared give an offside penalty. 5th game of the 6N and that’s the first player offside at a ruck.

[SerjeantWildgoose]

Agree with that to some extent ss, but to argue that the ball is 'long gone' in the Hogg incident is getting into the fractions of seconds territory that separates a late tackle from a legitimate one. I would also argue that chipping the ball over a back row forward and then expecting to get past the bits of him that fly off while he attempts to turn is not always going to pay off. Our natural, national biases are very much in play here and I would argue that those who insist that the call on POM/Hogg was clear cut and deserving of summary justice while three arguably late hits on Sexton were not even marginal - and that he deserves them because he invites them - are perhaps letting those biases get the run of them.

I can accept that examination of the replays shows that POM left a hanging elbow/shoulder, that this caused Hogg to fall and that the fall caused the shoulder injury that took him out of the game. But be objective and ask yourself how often referees penalise the standing player who does not get out of the way and allows the kicker to simply run into him? We all howl when it goes against us, but it cant be picked up much more than maybe one in ten goes. As I argued earlier, the TMO could and probably did have a look at it and, presumably, didn't see enough in it to warrant bringing it to the ref's attention.

I also accept that Sexton draws tackles in order to open gaps for others to exploit but this does not negate the rule on late tackles. If there was a marginal call on Hogg warranting the TMO's intervention, there were three on Sexton; those tackles had such an accumulative effect that he too was withdrawn through injury. I won't accept that post-event forensic examination should allow for a different standard to be applied.

If the game should have been stopped to examine the POM/Hogg incident, then it should also have been stopped to examine the hits on Sexton. If it had been, I suspect that penalties would have been awarded and perhaps cards brandished. Following my natural, national bias, the balance could have been 3:1 in Ireland's favour. What would not have changed is that Hogg and Sexton would still have ended up leaving the field of play.

This from today's Irish Independent perhaps illustrates the national spin (I am sure you can find one from the Scotsman that spins it the other way);

Scotland’s accuracy was off and they suffered a real blow when Stuart Hogg was forced off injured midway through the first-half.

And the visiting side extended their lead with a cleverly worked old favourite of Joe Schmidt. Peter O’Mahony linked with Sexton who drew Allan Dell and put Stockdale through a gap by the ruck and the ace finisher did what he did best.

With the out-half crumpled after being smashed late by Dell, Murray converted.

[Mikey Brown]

POM should should be shot. Get over it. Ours were gamesmanship. His were cunty bastardry. That’s how it works. Yes I’m a bit drunk.

[Donny osmond]

I believe that the TMO should be more usefully employed in scanning the various camera feeds to pick out the best looking totty in the crowd so that during breaks in play, when the decapitated and dismembered bodies are being strapped to the gurney, there is something better to look at than today's sorry parade of munters.

An outbreak of common sense, I'd vote for you Sarge

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[SerjeantWildgoose]

POM should should be shot. Get over it. Ours were gamesmanship. His were cunty bastardry. That’s how it works. Yes I’m a bit drunk.

My Priest told me that there is no point arguing with the logic of a drunk. Of course he was invariably pissed and trying to persuade the Parish Council to fund his mission in Las Vegas.

[Cameo]

I think the Dell one was possibly late although Im not sure you'd have wanted to come back for the penalty! There is nothing in the others but no problem if the tmo had wanted to look at them. Afraid the Hogg one is clear cut to me. It's not a hanging elbow while turning. It's a cynical trip.

Anyway, back to Scotland. I think first half showed exactly how we wanted to play tactically. A little more accuracy and I think we would have had a healthy lead. Both teams will change but the game plan seemed well thought out.

[Stones of granite]

It seems to me that claiming that Dell hit Sexton late is a special bit of whataboutery designed to deflect from the late hit on Hogg. Anyone who has ever played Rugby, or knows anything about the game, understands what Sexton did - he drew the tackler onto himself and skilfully timed the pass when the tackler was committed to free space for the supporting runner. To then claim that the committed tackler is then making a late tackle involves one of fuckwittery, ignorance of the game, or plain old malicious accusation.

As far as the obstruction of Hogg goes, I haven’t looked back at it so my recall may not be perfect. In that case, there was no requirement for the tackler to get out of Hogg’s way, but there is a requirement not to move into his way and obstruct him. In real time it looked to me like an obstruction and I was surprised that it wasn’t reviewed.

Incidentally, I had to laugh at Scmidt suggesting that Sextion had to go off following a stamp to the head, only later admitting that that the boot was an Irish boot. Some newspaper reports still only carry the first version.

Here ‘s a classic piece of reporting in the Irish Times. A casual reader will take from this that Sextion failed his HIA after a stamp to the head, the implication being that it was a Scottish player that inflicted the damage. You have to read to almost the end to find that adimisstion from Scmidt that it was one of his own players that “tripped over him”.

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/ ... -1.3788385

[AL.]

Whew lad, no bother though. Not like it took our best player out of the game (and potentially the tournament) and changed the course of the game.

Funny, Ive seen a lot of debates about this... Im not one for knee jerk yellow cards but the way he very professionally kept his head looking like he wasn't looking at what he was doing makes it even more dirty for me.

As for Sexton, well, tackling the opposition is not a new tactic, nor one of note no matter who it is even if the commentators have nothing else to fill the time with.

As for us, weak minded play from a team missing a few key players, not loads of players. However those players that are missing are vital. The weak bench is apparent and costly.....we are going to get butt fucked at Twickenham.

[Tobylerone]

Wilson out.