Eng vs. Sco - Match thread

[Tobylerone]

Have to say, chaps, that turned out to be quite an exciting match.

[Epaminondas Pules]

Eddie... to have a squad with so much pace, power and talent and to make them so fucking weird... At times we're unplayable, then just terrible, so, so terrible. Arrogance basically, that's our problem. In Eddie's image.

I think what usually happens is that we get a big injection from our subs in the second/front row. The combination of injuries sort of left us completely knackered.

Oh and if youngs could not have gifted them all those points would have been nice.

We just lost focus. We battered them too easily in the first half an then lost momentum. It is as simple as that.

[Mellsblue]

Wow reading this thread is like reading the comments of the daily mail. It’s fucking hilarious! Blaming individual players for conceding 38 points! Genuine! It would be useful if some people on this board actually watched rugby regularly or maybe even played it.

Quite some turn around from Scotland that and then superb resilience from England to get the draw.

Who is blaming anybody for conceding all 38 points?
We all watch it regularly and most of us have played. Some to quite a high level.
If you think that second half performance is acceptable against an injury ravaged Scotland side then I think you have have it wrong. Very wrong.
If you are happy with that result then good for you but some of us think we should be winning the World Cup, with second the very least we should achieve, and that performance, as with the Wales one, isn’t good enough.
Even JW agrees with us non-playing, non-watching Dail Mail readers.

[Mellsblue]

Have to say, chaps, that turned out to be out to be quite an exciting match.

What is this. Where is the crying baby Nigel?!?!?

[Galfon]

That was a great score by Sam Johnson at a key moment.
Graham was on fire until taken out..would they have won if still on ?..

[Oakboy]

I have sympathy for:

Scotland - deserved the win.
All our outside backs who deserved to be on the winning side.
Wilson, who should not have gone off.
Cipriani who should be our FH.

I have no sympathy for:

Jones, who should be sacked now.
Farrell and Youngs who should be discarded.

[fivepointer]

We didnt even deserve a draw. Thanks to a dumb penalty we got the chance and, to be fair, did well to finally get the try.
But really after a tremendous opening 30 minutes, we were absolutely dire. No direction, no common sense, error ridden and flat footed.
A side should never be 31 pts up and fail to win a game. Simply never. That was a performance of almost unbelievable sloppy amateurism from England. Winning when you are in a dominant position should be a given yet we basically stopped playing and stopped doing the things that had brought us success early in the game.
It was a collective failure but for the second game in this 6N's our starting half backs were utterly culpable. How Farrell stayed on till 59 minutes and Youngs 73 is beyond me.
I refuse to believe that we dont have a better SH than Youngs.

[Mellsblue]

Geech blaming decision makers. He must read the Daily Mail.

[Banquo]

Eddie... to have a squad with so much pace, power and talent and to make them so fucking weird... At times we're unplayable, then just terrible, so, so terrible. Arrogance basically, that's our problem. In Eddie's image.

I think what usually happens is that we get a big injection from our subs in the second/front row. The combination of injuries sort of left us completely knackered.

Oh and if youngs could not have gifted them all those points would have been nice.

We just lost focus. We battered them too easily in the first half an then lost momentum. It is as simple as that.

Kinda, but its not a simple solution; we are not able to change the momentum of the game once it starts moving against us (same v wales). Flat track bullies, particularly at half back- Youngs response was to keep giving it back to them, and Faz was passive and/or indecisive. You are right in saying highlighting individuals is daft- almost every player made critical mistakes, and that's not a great sign imo.

[Banquo]

We didnt even deserve a draw. Thanks to a dumb penalty we got the chance and, to be fair, did well to finally get the try.
But really after a tremendous opening 30 minutes, we were absolutely dire. No direction, no common sense, error ridden and flat footed.
A side should never be 31 pts up and fail to win a game. Simply never. That was a performance of almost unbelievable sloppy amateurism from England. Winning when you are in a dominant position should be a given yet we basically stopped playing and stopped doing the things that had brought us success early in the game.
It was a collective failure but for the second game in this 6N's our starting half backs were utterly culpable. How Farrell stayed on till 59 minutes and Youngs 73 is beyond me.
I refuse to believe that we dont have a better SH than Youngs.

This.

[Which Tyler]

SCW is disappointed we used the bench...

[Banquo]

oh.....and the tackling was genuinely rubbish, especially in the outside backs.

[Epaminondas Pules]

Wow reading this thread is like reading the comments of the daily mail. It’s fucking hilarious! Blaming individual players for conceding 38 points! Genuine! It would be useful if some people on this board actually watched rugby regularly or maybe even played it.

Quite some turn around from Scotland that and then superb resilience from England to get the draw.

Who is blaming anybody for conceding all 38 points?
We all watch it regularly and most of us have played. Some to quite a high level.
If you think that second half performance is acceptable against an injury ravaged Scotland side then I think you have have it wrong. Very wrong.
If you are happy with that result then good for you but some of us think we should be winning the World Cup, with second the very least we should achieve, and that performance, as with the Wales one, isn’t good enough.
Even JW agrees with us non-playing, non-watching Dail Mail readers.

Go back through the thread, apparently Young’s and Farrel gave it away. There was also a thread recently about how little people in here actually watch rugby now, especially club rugby. People who have opinions on players they’ve never seen. Even kids like Barbeary that I guarantee 90% of you have never actually watched play and yet cite as a ‘next big thing’ prospect. Actually watching players is a massive help when it comes to forming an opinion. Not blaming it Mells but there is a fuck load of it on this board.

We lost our momentum and Scotland gained there’s. It does happen. We recovered and snatched a draw. Is it ideal, no. Is there a certain amount of circumstance that mitigates it? Yes.

Did I say it was good? Or did I say that momentum shift happens? Which it does in rugby. It’s hard to pick up again in the second half when you have battered a team in the first half. That’s just how it is. And also credit to Scotland for fucking us up.

[Digby]

A comedy of errors or more a King Lear?

[Epaminondas Pules]

One thing that gets me is that nobody factors the mental side of the game that today as a whole brought. To totally ignore the mental aspect of rugby especially in a competition where the importance of a game changes by the minute is very interesting.

[Mellsblue]

You are right in saying highlighting individuals is daft- almost every player made critical mistakes, and that's not a great sign imo.

I think they are highlighted because the players keep making them and keep getting picked without question.

[Galfon]

EJ says he knows what the problem is with collective psyche..and it could take time to fix.

[Buggaluggs]

Did I say it was good? Or did I say that momentum shift happens? Which it does in rugby. It’s hard to pick up again in the second half when you have battered a team in the first half. That’s just how it is. And also credit to Scotland for fucking us up.

Wales didn't find that a problem as we won the GS in pretty easy fashion.

[WaspInWales]

I feel like I did at the RWC. Emotionless. Tacticslly clueless and coach favourites not based on performance. Balls to it.

This.

[Banquo]

One thing that gets me is that nobody factors the mental side of the game that today as a whole brought. To totally ignore the mental aspect of rugby especially in a competition where the importance of a game changes by the minute is very interesting.

Indeed, and we failed at it. Its not an excuse however. And what's the evidence that no-one is factoring it in- it plays into errors, it plays into shyte decision making, it plays into intensity drop off. What point are you making? If you are saying we lost it mentally, I don't think anyone would disagree.

[Mellsblue]

One thing that gets me is that nobody factors the mental side of the game that today as a whole brought. To totally ignore the mental aspect of rugby especially in a competition where the importance of a game changes by the minute is very interesting.

We still lost, after having it wrapped up at halftime, again. It’s World Cup year, at home to a depleted Scotland side and we imploded. We’re a team that has struggled to adapt to the ebbs and flows of games for years. We’ve said it repeatedly. It’s been an ongoing issue for years and it hasn’t been remedied.

[Epaminondas Pules]

Did I say it was good? Or did I say that momentum shift happens? Which it does in rugby. It’s hard to pick up again in the second half when you have battered a team in the first half. That’s just how it is. And also credit to Scotland for fucking us up.

Wales didn't find that a problem as we won the GS in pretty easy fashion.

You were fucking awesome today!

[Stom]

oh.....and the tackling was genuinely rubbish, especially in the outside backs.

I though Tuilagi was terrible in defence.

[Banquo]

You are right in saying highlighting individuals is daft- almost every player made critical mistakes, and that's not a great sign imo.

I think they are highlighted because the players keep making them and keep getting picked without question.

You missed my point- highlighting a couple doesn't demonstrate what happened with a lot of players making mistakes as part of an all round melt down. I know that's not giving enough credit to Scotland, but....

You can highlight Faz's garish mistakes, but you could also call out lots of poor tackle attempts, Vunipola's key spill, Genge's wrong options (and any number out wide)..etc etc. The key feature was a collective lack of discipline, focus and intensity- exacerbated by zero leadership.

[Epaminondas Pules]

One thing that gets me is that nobody factors the mental side of the game that today as a whole brought. To totally ignore the mental aspect of rugby especially in a competition where the importance of a game changes by the minute is very interesting.

Indeed, and we failed at it. Its not an excuse however. And what's the evidence that no-one is factoring it in- it plays into errors, it plays into shyte decision making, it plays into intensity drop off. What point are you making? If you are saying we lost it mentally, I don't think anyone would disagree.

The point I’m making is the armchair punditry on here makes no mention of it. Does not factor it at all, as if international rugby was a simple thing.

We won!! World Cup contenders!
We lost! End of the world!
Same with individual players.