RugbyRebels

not saying preferrential just wrong, it was totally deliberate

paddy no 11 wrote:not saying preferrential just wrong, it was totally deliberate

Why make the point about an Argentinian or Samoan then? I don’t think Owens is an especially subjective ref.

paddy no 11 wrote:not saying preferrential just wrong, it was totally deliberate

Since when is a first offence no-arm tackle at the shins an automatic yellow?

Puja

Puja wrote:

paddy no 11 wrote:not saying preferrential just wrong, it was totally deliberate

Since when is a first offence no-arm tackle at the shins an automatic yellow?

Puja

That's what I was trying to figure out from the laws, but found the reference a bit 'challenging'

Puja wrote:

paddy no 11 wrote:not saying preferrential just wrong, it was totally deliberate

Since when is a first offence no-arm tackle at the shins an automatic yellow?

Puja

2 yards from the line......watch it back and let me know if you think it merited a yellow?

paddy no 11 wrote:

Puja wrote:

paddy no 11 wrote:not saying preferrential just wrong, it was totally deliberate

Since when is a first offence no-arm tackle at the shins an automatic yellow?

Puja

2 yards from the line......watch it back and let me know if you think it merited a yellow?

I liked how hard Kyle worked to get back onside

paddy no 11 wrote:

Puja wrote:

paddy no 11 wrote:not saying preferrential just wrong, it was totally deliberate

Since when is a first offence no-arm tackle at the shins an automatic yellow?

Puja

2 yards from the line......watch it back and let me know if you think it merited a yellow?

Found it (52s in for the closeup):

It's clearly a stupid penalty, but it's neither dangerous (as his direction is always down to the ground and it's more of a trip than a direct shoulder to a joint) nor stopping a try being scored (given that there are two other Englishmen making the tackle at the same time). It's brainless, awful technique and, had a yellow been given, I would have complained but not too loudly - harsh, but not outrageous. Can't see it as a travesty of justice that it wasn't given though and, had the position been reversed, wouldn't have been screaming for a yellow for the opposition.

Frankly, my main takeaway is the sheer amount of effort he's put into tackling illegally, when it surely would've been easier to use your arms.

Puja

Puja wrote:

paddy no 11 wrote:

Puja wrote:
Since when is a first offence no-arm tackle at the shins an automatic yellow?

Puja

2 yards from the line......watch it back and let me know if you think it merited a yellow?

Found it (52s in for the closeup):

It's clearly a stupid penalty, but it's neither dangerous (as his direction is always down to the ground and it's more of a trip than a direct shoulder to a joint) nor stopping a try being scored (given that there are two other Englishmen making the tackle at the same time). It's brainless, awful technique and, had a yellow been given, I would have complained but not too loudly - harsh, but not outrageous. Can't see it as a travesty of justice that it wasn't given though and, had the position been reversed, wouldn't have been screaming for a yellow for the opposition.

Frankly, my main takeaway is the sheer amount of effort he's put into tackling illegally, when it surely would've been easier to use your arms.

Puja

I think he messed up, tried to correct and ended up messing it up further. He flips over during the tackle. I think he lost footing and just ballsed it up.

Sinckler does tackle like that, it's not a good look, and if he gets a yellow for it he'd have little in the way of valid complaint

Yep. With many other players I’d think they just messed it up and fell over but he does have a habit of flying in like that.

Spiffy wrote:I would say that the standard of refereeing at this RWC has been poor. Something has to be done about consistency. No two refs seem to interpret the laws in the same way and teams spend a fair bit of the game groping about to try and find out what the ref really wants, what he will let go, and what he will penalize. The breakdown is now a complete lottery and set scrums are a close second, when the wrong front rower is frequently pinged. As for crooked lineout throws, squint feeds, blatant blocking, and non-turnover turnovers .....

No two games tell the same story and they never will.
You have to decide what is material and what is superfluous.
That's why quality ref's are such a rarity and why we should cherish them.

This is exactly why reffing rugby union is an art and not a science.

Timbo wrote:

Peej wrote:Slightly odd that Lavanini has been given a four week ban, but the two Italian probs that tried to pile drive Vermeulen head first into the ground only received three each

Lavanini has a significant amount of previous, hence not getting the full reduction.

Oh, Yeah.

Nothing so satisfying as 'previous' when you're at a disciplinary hearing.
BOOM...!.

Ohhhh bloody hell

kk67 wrote:

Spiffy wrote:.. As for crooked lineout throws, squint feeds, blatant blocking, and non-turnover turnovers .....

..This is exactly why reffing rugby union is an art and not a science.

Struggle with this sort of thing.

(btw, don't think I've seen a kick-off or restart yet where there aren't several players stealing a few yards...strange that, from memory school refs were always strict on this & squint throws and feeds!..)

It sounds like pages in the rule book are allowed to go missing in the interest of keeping the game moving....great for some viewers maybe but not so if your team gets the @rse end of it & goes home.

Galfon wrote:
It sounds like pages in the rule book are allowed to go missing in the interest of keeping the game moving....great for some viewers maybe but not so if your team gets the @rse end of it & goes home.

LAW.
In order to keep the game moving.

Structure is the primary target of any rugby union ref. You should know that.

kk67 wrote: Structure is the primary target of any rugby union ref. You should know that.

Unenviable task given the complexities and speed of events, and not one most would be comfortable taking on..
however..'The referee must apply fairly all the laws of the game in every match.'
may appear passable within a match but oft appear inconsistent between matches due to the individual interpretation.Without clones, not sure what the answer is unless they pay mega-bucks to get super-elite hombres.

kk67 wrote:

Spiffy wrote:I would say that the standard of refereeing at this RWC has been poor. Something has to be done about consistency. No two refs seem to interpret the laws in the same way and teams spend a fair bit of the game groping about to try and find out what the ref really wants, what he will let go, and what he will penalize. The breakdown is now a complete lottery and set scrums are a close second, when the wrong front rower is frequently pinged. As for crooked lineout throws, squint feeds, blatant blocking, and non-turnover turnovers .....

No two games tell the same story and they never will.
You have to decide what is material and what is superfluous.
That's why quality ref's are such a rarity and why we should cherish them.

This is exactly why reffing rugby union is an art and not a science.

This may be the most beautiful thing ever written on here. It is almost poetry. Like Philip Larkin in the first flush of love.

Puja wrote:

paddy no 11 wrote:

Puja wrote:
Since when is a first offence no-arm tackle at the shins an automatic yellow?

Puja

2 yards from the line......watch it back and let me know if you think it merited a yellow?

Found it (52s in for the closeup):

It's clearly a stupid penalty, but it's neither dangerous (as his direction is always down to the ground and it's more of a trip than a direct shoulder to a joint) nor stopping a try being scored (given that there are two other Englishmen making the tackle at the same time). It's brainless, awful technique and, had a yellow been given, I would have complained but not too loudly - harsh, but not outrageous. Can't see it as a travesty of justice that it wasn't given though and, had the position been reversed, wouldn't have been screaming for a yellow for the opposition.

Frankly, my main takeaway is the sheer amount of effort he's put into tackling illegally, when it surely would've been easier to use your arms.

Puja

Read did the same in the NZ v Namibia game in a similar position (near their own try line) and it was also just a penalty. Which would seem consistent.

And agreed. It’s just as easy and far more effective to get your arms out and at least try to grab.

Mellsblue wrote:

kk67 wrote:

Spiffy wrote:I would say that the standard of refereeing at this RWC has been poor. Something has to be done about consistency. No two refs seem to interpret the laws in the same way and teams spend a fair bit of the game groping about to try and find out what the ref really wants, what he will let go, and what he will penalize. The breakdown is now a complete lottery and set scrums are a close second, when the wrong front rower is frequently pinged. As for crooked lineout throws, squint feeds, blatant blocking, and non-turnover turnovers .....

No two games tell the same story and they never will.
You have to decide what is material and what is superfluous.
That's why quality ref's are such a rarity and why we should cherish them.

This is exactly why reffing rugby union is an art and not a science.

This may be the most beautiful thing ever written on here. It is almost poetry. Like Philip Larkin in the first flush of love.

I was thinking more Rab C Nesbitt on Buckfast, but ok

Epaminondas Pules wrote:

Puja wrote:

paddy no 11 wrote:
2 yards from the line......watch it back and let me know if you think it merited a yellow?

Found it (52s in for the closeup):

It's clearly a stupid penalty, but it's neither dangerous (as his direction is always down to the ground and it's more of a trip than a direct shoulder to a joint) nor stopping a try being scored (given that there are two other Englishmen making the tackle at the same time). It's brainless, awful technique and, had a yellow been given, I would have complained but not too loudly - harsh, but not outrageous. Can't see it as a travesty of justice that it wasn't given though and, had the position been reversed, wouldn't have been screaming for a yellow for the opposition.

Frankly, my main takeaway is the sheer amount of effort he's put into tackling illegally, when it surely would've been easier to use your arms.

Puja

Read did the same in the NZ v Namibia game in a similar position (near their own try line) and it was also just a penalty. Which would seem consistent.

And agreed. It’s just as easy and far more effective to get your arms out and at least try to grab.

Lets see what happens when someone (france) does it against NZ later in the tournament

paddy no 11 wrote:

Epaminondas Pules wrote:

Puja wrote:
Found it (52s in for the closeup):

It's clearly a stupid penalty, but it's neither dangerous (as his direction is always down to the ground and it's more of a trip than a direct shoulder to a joint) nor stopping a try being scored (given that there are two other Englishmen making the tackle at the same time). It's brainless, awful technique and, had a yellow been given, I would have complained but not too loudly - harsh, but not outrageous. Can't see it as a travesty of justice that it wasn't given though and, had the position been reversed, wouldn't have been screaming for a yellow for the opposition.

Frankly, my main takeaway is the sheer amount of effort he's put into tackling illegally, when it surely would've been easier to use your arms.

Puja

Read did the same in the NZ v Namibia game in a similar position (near their own try line) and it was also just a penalty. Which would seem consistent.

And agreed. It’s just as easy and far more effective to get your arms out and at least try to grab.

Lets see what happens when someone (france) does it against NZ later in the tournament

Should be fairly safe from that. France vs New Zealand only happens if France either beat both England and Australia or if they beat Wales, then South Africa. While not impossible, not even I'm putting money on that long shot.

Puja

paddy no 11 wrote:

Epaminondas Pules wrote:

Puja wrote:
Found it (52s in for the closeup):

It's clearly a stupid penalty, but it's neither dangerous (as his direction is always down to the ground and it's more of a trip than a direct shoulder to a joint) nor stopping a try being scored (given that there are two other Englishmen making the tackle at the same time). It's brainless, awful technique and, had a yellow been given, I would have complained but not too loudly - harsh, but not outrageous. Can't see it as a travesty of justice that it wasn't given though and, had the position been reversed, wouldn't have been screaming for a yellow for the opposition.

Frankly, my main takeaway is the sheer amount of effort he's put into tackling illegally, when it surely would've been easier to use your arms.

Puja

Read did the same in the NZ v Namibia game in a similar position (near their own try line) and it was also just a penalty. Which would seem consistent.

And agreed. It’s just as easy and far more effective to get your arms out and at least try to grab.

Lets see what happens when someone (france) does it against NZ later in the tournament

Quite unlikely to happen (France), but if it does it'll most likely be just a penalty, like almost all instances of the same.

Mellsblue wrote:

kk67 wrote: No two games tell the same story and they never will.
You have to decide what is material and what is superfluous.
That's why quality ref's are such a rarity and why we should cherish them.

This is exactly why reffing rugby union is an art and not a science.

This may be the most beautiful thing ever written on here. It is almost poetry. Like Philip Larkin in the first flush of love.

Not many people know that Larkin played flanker for Wetherby Town RFC and wrote a poem "They f*** you up, your referees"

CunningPunter wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:

kk67 wrote: No two games tell the same story and they never will.
You have to decide what is material and what is superfluous.
That's why quality ref's are such a rarity and why we should cherish them.

This is exactly why reffing rugby union is an art and not a science.

This may be the most beautiful thing ever written on here. It is almost poetry. Like Philip Larkin in the first flush of love.

Not many people know that Larkin played flanker for Wetherby Town RFC and wrote a poem "They f*** you up, your referees"

Lavanini frankly shows appalling understanding of the warning of being at one another's throats, maybe like KK he'd downed a few

I wish commentators wouldnt pretend not to understand the decisions when they are obvious. It's the same people who then complain that the fans are left in the dark. Two very explicable yellows in the Wales Fiji game so far and they are acting like it is a lottery