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Re: Lions SA 2021
Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 12:35 pm
by Mellsblue
Mr Mwenda wrote:North out.
To paraphrase someone after Western Samoa beat Wales:
Thank goodness for that. It’s going to be difficult enough to beat South Africa, imagine if we had to play the whole continent.
Re: Lions SA 2021
Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 1:31 pm
by Puja
Mellsblue wrote:Mr Mwenda wrote:North out.
To paraphrase someone after Western Samoa beat Wales:
Thank goodness for that. It’s going to be difficult enough to beat South Africa, imagine if we had to play the whole continent.
{Golfclap}
Re: Lions SA 2021
Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 2:01 pm
by Mr Mwenda
Mellsblue wrote:Mr Mwenda wrote:North out.
To paraphrase someone after Western Samoa beat Wales:
Thank goodness for that. It’s going to be difficult enough to beat South Africa, imagine if we had to play the whole continent.
Excellent. Not for poor North, mind.
Re: Lions SA 2021
Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 4:11 pm
by Timbo
whatisthejava wrote:Stom wrote:
This is going to be a very Wales heavy squad.
Not convinced by that, Gatland isnt a autocrat, and everyone knows while the wales players are good but their systems were not good and were flattered by the first 3 results and then shat it when they were a sniff away from a grand slam.
I do think England will get very few player, but you got beaten by everyone else, and dont have a voice in the room so when the 50s/50s come up they will go against you.
My gut feel is The forwards will be a mix of Wales/Scotland/IReland and Itoje
The backs will be a mix of welsh and scots with Henshaw
I think its really difficult to name a single english player that outdid his rival even while losing , even though Itoje was a nuisance , he was a nuisance because he was constatly playing illegally and getting penalised.
The props got done up front by Ireland and Scotland
The back row got done in by all 3
The wings never saw the ball
Daly was attrocious
The centres either got ignored or smashed
- Again like Wales, the english players arent suddenly bad but they look like they have been flogged and need some serious downtime. THey wernt from a RWC final, to a few weeks off to a pandemic to a 11 month season , to eddies kamikazee training camps to historic loss to scotland ,ending with a record defeat to Wales and a pasting by Ireland.
Not exactly mentally ready for a lions tour.
- ON the lions, i think its a bad omen, if you want to beat the saffers you need the english players and their arrogance to turn up, we dont have that this year and i think Rassie will have only pick a game plan once the squad has been announed, if we go mobile he will smash us up front. If we go heavy, he will pick a mobile team and smash us out wide.
When it boils down to it a 6 Nations is 4 meaningful games 3-4 months before the Lions test matches start. Form during the 6 nations is one of the selection criteria’s, it shouldn’t be a key differential IMO. 6 weeks before the 6N’s Eng beat Ireland and Wales pretty comfortably. A few weeks before that a Sarries pack with 4 England forwards humped Leinster’s pack (with Healy, Porter, Ryan, Conan etc) all over Dublin. Form comes and goes.
Not suggesting, btw, that there should be a huge number of English players on the tour. Just cautioning against dismissing some of those players based on a small snapshot of form. Just my opinion and how I would be looking to select the squad, mind.
Re: Lions SA 2021
Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 2:25 pm
by Digby
You'd think 20 odd names would be pretty much inked in no matter the 6N. The form discussion is likely only to arise around the last 10-15 spots going
Re: Lions SA 2021
Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 3:50 pm
by Big D
Digby wrote:You'd think 20 odd names would be pretty much inked in no matter the 6N. The form discussion is likely only to arise around the last 10-15 spots going
It is an interesting one really. Form is one thing but if a player has been trending up for a while and continued to improve, or the opposite of that then it shouldn't be misconstrued as form.
I am not saying that from a place of trying to squeeze more Scots in, for me they'd still be the smallest contingent of the party.
Re: Lions SA 2021
Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 4:53 pm
by Digby
Big D wrote:Digby wrote:You'd think 20 odd names would be pretty much inked in no matter the 6N. The form discussion is likely only to arise around the last 10-15 spots going
It is an interesting one really. Form is one thing but if a player has been trending up for a while and continued to improve, or the opposite of that then it shouldn't be misconstrued as form.
I am not saying that from a place of trying to squeeze more Scots in, for me they'd still be the smallest contingent of the party.
if it gets less English players on tour I'm all for selecting on form. just I'd guess the likes of Furlong, Farrell and so on would be going whatever had happened in the 6N, whereas some of the 3rd, 4th choices in a position might come down to who impressed in the 6N
Re: Lions SA 2021
Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 8:48 pm
by Big D
Digby wrote:Big D wrote:Digby wrote:You'd think 20 odd names would be pretty much inked in no matter the 6N. The form discussion is likely only to arise around the last 10-15 spots going
It is an interesting one really. Form is one thing but if a player has been trending up for a while and continued to improve, or the opposite of that then it shouldn't be misconstrued as form.
I am not saying that from a place of trying to squeeze more Scots in, for me they'd still be the smallest contingent of the party.
if it gets less English players on tour I'm all for selecting on form. just I'd guess the likes of Furlong, Farrell and so on would be going whatever had happened in the 6N, whereas some of the 3rd, 4th choices in a position might come down to who impressed in the 6N
As I say, it is the discerning who has simply lost form and could go (maybe May and George could be a examples) v a player who has been slowly reducing from his peak and perhaps not right for SA such as a Mako (and Billy for me) for example who may have been thought as certs 18 months ago. Only using English players as examples as I think they are the hardest to split form v a downward/upward trend.
Re: Lions SA 2021
Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 1:09 pm
by jngf
whatisthejava wrote:Dan. Dan. Dan. wrote:
As much as I love Tipuric as a player, I think SA will just munch him, and there's no chance Gatland plays the gameplan that would suit him...
I did my lions 36 today, well 33 (really dont know about 3) and Tipuric never made it, i was sure he would be there but I really dont think Gatland will not take Watson and
Curry covers all 3 back row spots
It’s a paper tissue cover regarding no.8
Imo Tom Curry’s definitely a grafter and has a lot of doggedness/tenacity but whether England or the Lions I’d pick Sam Simmonds over him whether we’re talking 6, 7 or 8 every time. Simmonds has an X factor of pace and dynamic power which Curry (even in bulked up version) simply doesn’t
Re: Lions SA 2021
Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 1:43 pm
by Mellsblue
If you’ve bought tickets check your email.
Re: Lions SA 2021
Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 4:28 pm
by Puja
The last two posts on this thread are utterly unsurprising.
Puja
Re: Lions SA 2021
Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 4:59 pm
by jngf
Puja wrote:The last two posts on this thread are utterly unsurprising.
Puja
Take it you’re in agreement then Puja
Re: Lions SA 2021
Posted: Sat May 01, 2021 3:07 am
by Spiffy
jngf wrote:whatisthejava wrote:Dan. Dan. Dan. wrote:
As much as I love Tipuric as a player, I think SA will just munch him, and there's no chance Gatland plays the gameplan that would suit him...
I did my lions 36 today, well 33 (really dont know about 3) and Tipuric never made it, i was sure he would be there but I really dont think Gatland will not take Watson and
Curry covers all 3 back row spots
It’s a paper tissue cover regarding no.8
Imo Tom Curry’s definitely a grafter and has a lot of doggedness/tenacity but whether England or the Lions I’d pick Sam Simmonds over him whether we’re talking 6, 7 or 8 every time. Simmonds has an X factor of pace and dynamic power which Curry (even in bulked up version) simply doesn’t
Yes. But Simmonds has been playing only 8 at club level for some time and is a bit of an unknown quantity at 6 or 7.
Faletau is a Gatland favourite at 8 and I think will be a nailed on starter for the test team unless he severely blots his copy book.
At 6, Beirne has been the standout in the 6N and also a likely starter.
That leaves the 7 slot to be contested by Curry, Tipuric and Watson. Tipuric is the best all-round footballer but Watson's carrying and tackle record in the 6N is tremendous. He is not massive but very powerful, punches well beyond his weight, and I think deserves a squad place and probably a test place on form. Curry to cover the back row.
If seven back rowers are to go I would suggest Faletau, Stander, Beirne, Simmonds, Watson, Tipuric, Curry - given that Beirne can also cover lock (though I think locks may be Wyn Jones, Itoje, Henderson, Ryan, Gray.) Underwood loses out on game time and overall back row skills though he is a powerful tackler.
If Simmonds is selected he could well be a star on the firm SA pitches given his pace and power. Depends on the Gatland game plan and how he might want to use him..
Re: Lions SA 2021
Posted: Sat May 01, 2021 9:44 am
by Mikey Brown
Watson has had to play like an absolute maniac to even be in the conversation. I can’t see any way Gatland is taking all of Watson, Tipuric and Simmonds who are all deemed on the small side at this level against SA.
Re: Lions SA 2021
Posted: Sat May 01, 2021 4:54 pm
by whatisthejava
Mental , the back row is so competitive a lions back row of Richie, Tony Underwood and navidi might not even tour.
Re: Lions SA 2021
Posted: Sat May 01, 2021 7:08 pm
by Banquo
whatisthejava wrote:Mental , the back row is so competitive a lions back row of Richie, Underwood and navidi might not even tour.
Good old Underwood.
Re: Lions SA 2021
Posted: Sat May 01, 2021 7:46 pm
by Mellsblue
Ben Youngs withdraws from selection.
Re: Lions SA 2021
Posted: Sat May 01, 2021 9:02 pm
by whatisthejava
Mellsblue wrote:Ben Youngs withdraws from selection.
That’s two lions tours he could have went on and picked family twice. Speaks volumes of the man.
Re: Lions SA 2021
Posted: Sat May 01, 2021 9:14 pm
by Dan. Dan. Dan.
Banquo wrote:whatisthejava wrote:Mental , the back row is so competitive a lions back row of Richie, Underwood and navidi might not even tour.
Good old Underwood.
He
has lost a step. Still not sure I'd play him in the back row though...
Re: Lions SA 2021
Posted: Sun May 02, 2021 10:21 am
by Big D
whatisthejava wrote:Mellsblue wrote:Ben Youngs withdraws from selection.
That’s two lions tours he could have went on and picked family twice. Speaks volumes of the man.
It does. I'd have taken him but he clearly (and correctly imo) values family above all else.
Re: Lions SA 2021
Posted: Sun May 02, 2021 10:22 am
by Big D
Dan. Dan. Dan. wrote:Banquo wrote:whatisthejava wrote:Mental , the back row is so competitive a lions back row of Richie, Underwood and navidi might not even tour.
Good old Underwood.
He
has lost a step. Still not sure I'd play him in the back row though...
He could fly the plane tbf.
Re: Lions SA 2021
Posted: Sun May 02, 2021 12:04 pm
by whatisthejava
whatisthejava wrote:Mental , the back row is so competitive a lions back row of Richie, Underhill and navidi might not even tour.
I’ve edited the original post so you all look weird.
Re: Lions SA 2021
Posted: Sun May 02, 2021 1:31 pm
by Puja
whatisthejava wrote:Mental , the back row is so competitive a lions back row of Richie, Tony Underwood and navidi might not even tour.
FTFY.
Puja
Re: Lions SA 2021
Posted: Sun May 02, 2021 6:03 pm
by Banquo
whatisthejava wrote:whatisthejava wrote:Mental , the back row is so competitive a lions back row of Richie, Underhill and navidi might not even tour.
I’ve edited the original post so you all look weird.
Puja wins
Re: Lions SA 2021
Posted: Sun May 02, 2021 10:26 pm
by whatisthejava
Banquo wrote:
Puja is H
Makes sense