RugbyRebels

Genuine query of the Irish posters Why is Cooney 'persona non gratia'? JGP doesn't totally convince in similar manner to Randall not convincing this sceptic. Is JGP more than an alternative to CM as a solution beyond RWC 23?

Spiffy wrote:

Danno wrote:Even without Porter that pack is frightening. O'Mahoney starting to maximise his shithousing too.

Yes. None better at stirring it up. But he is also one of the world's best lineout poachers and his overall game has livened up this season.
Looking forward to the open side battle - Curry/VDF (who is in the form of his life.)
(VDF is not, as Dewi Morris may believe, a transplanted Saffer. His Irish mum married a Dutch bloke and he was raised in Ireland.)
Sorry we are not seeing an Aki/Henshaw midfield. Ringrose is OK but overrated.

I’m going to win no friends here by saying I think Van de Flier has the edge on pace and skills over Curry (in the context of being out and out openside) - Curry has the edge on dog and physicality

Ringrose is a quality player. Unrealistic comparisons with O’driscoll from a young age haven’t helped him.

I’d pick Ringrose over any option we have.

This far into the 6N, with extra camp time from the gap weeks, there can be no 'unfamiliar with new systems and combinations' excuses. There needs to be cohesion and accuracy all over the pitch with a special emphasis on ruthlessness in the 22. All units have to be better than the sum of their parts or we will lose - because that's where Ireland are at.

jngf wrote:

Spiffy wrote:

Danno wrote:Even without Porter that pack is frightening. O'Mahoney starting to maximise his shithousing too.

Yes. None better at stirring it up. But he is also one of the world's best lineout poachers and his overall game has livened up this season.
Looking forward to the open side battle - Curry/VDF (who is in the form of his life.)
(VDF is not, as Dewi Morris may believe, a transplanted Saffer. His Irish mum married a Dutch bloke and he was raised in Ireland.)
Sorry we are not seeing an Aki/Henshaw midfield. Ringrose is OK but overrated.

I’m going to win no friends here by saying I think Van de Flier has the edge on pace and skills over Curry (in the context of being out and out openside) - Curry has the edge on dog and physicality

John Clarke, the Lions and England S&C coach, has said that Tom Curry has recorded speeds of 10mps+ max velocity. For context that’s on or around international back 3 type pace- probably as quick as any of the outside backs we’ll see at Twickers on Saturday. He does all of his sprint training at England with the backs.

Zero chance VDF has more pace than Curry.

Is the England back row quicker than the England back 3?!?!?

Mellsblue wrote:Is the England back row quicker than the England back 3?!?!?

Over a 40metre sprint I’m backing Curry and Simmonds to come 1st and 2nd out of both back 3’s.

Timbo wrote:

jngf wrote:

Spiffy wrote:
Yes. None better at stirring it up. But he is also one of the world's best lineout poachers and his overall game has livened up this season.
Looking forward to the open side battle - Curry/VDF (who is in the form of his life.)
(VDF is not, as Dewi Morris may believe, a transplanted Saffer. His Irish mum married a Dutch bloke and he was raised in Ireland.)
Sorry we are not seeing an Aki/Henshaw midfield. Ringrose is OK but overrated.

I’m going to win no friends here by saying I think Van de Flier has the edge on pace and skills over Curry (in the context of being out and out openside) - Curry has the edge on dog and physicality

John Clarke, the Lions and England S&C coach, has said that Tom Curry has recorded speeds of 10mps+ max velocity. For context that’s on or around international back 3 type pace- probably as quick as any of the outside backs we’ll see at Twickers on Saturday. He does all of his sprint training at England with the backs.

Zero chance VDF has more pace than Curry.

Curry does not look outstandingly fast in the context of an actual game, despite what the sprint stats might say. If he is as pacy as you say, then England are certainly not getting the best return out of his speed by using him as a close quarters ball carrier who is often just running into contact.

Timbo wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:Is the England back row quicker than the England back 3?!?!?

Over a 40metre sprint I’m backing Curry and Simmonds to come 1st and 2nd out of both back 3’s.

Sadly, you’re probably correct.

Ffs. He’s at it again. Remember when he warned France to expect ‘absolute brutality’…….

That backline is decidedly meh. I think I'm just tired of Eddie now.

Spiffy wrote:

Timbo wrote:

jngf wrote:
I’m going to win no friends here by saying I think Van de Flier has the edge on pace and skills over Curry (in the context of being out and out openside) - Curry has the edge on dog and physicality

John Clarke, the Lions and England S&C coach, has said that Tom Curry has recorded speeds of 10mps+ max velocity. For context that’s on or around international back 3 type pace- probably as quick as any of the outside backs we’ll see at Twickers on Saturday. He does all of his sprint training at England with the backs.

Zero chance VDF has more pace than Curry.

Curry does not look outstandingly fast in the context of an actual game, despite what the sprint stats might say. If he is as pacy as you say, then England are certainly not getting the best return out of his speed by using him as a close quarters ball carrier who is often just running into contact.

Maybe needs to work on his footwork going into contact or he’s not as intuitive an attacker ball in hand as some others. Not sure. But if you player can him and watch him closely you’ll see plenty of examples of proper over the ground pace. He doesn’t end up in the right place at the right time 95% of the time just because he reads the game very well.

Is he high? Is he contractually obliged to spend so much time just spouting random jibberish to the media or something? Weren’t we ‘massive underdogs’ (or something to that effect) like 3 days ago?

Is he still that obsessed with South Africa that he hasn’t even noticed France? Or this him doing his lightning rod, 4D chess thing?

Maybe it needs a pasting on Saturday to push Eddie over the cliff edge?

I still find a lot of the stuff he says interesting, even if some of it is nonsense. He’s talked about how he sees part of his job is selling a big match to the audience, a bit like a boxing promoter. Also, he’s not an idiot and always says stuff for a reason (although he also gets a big carried away too).

If I was to guess I’d say that these quotes are more about sending a message to his own players, rather than a dig at Ireland.

Portcullis Irish wrote:Genuine query of the Irish posters Why is Cooney 'persona non gratia'? JGP doesn't totally convince in similar manner to Randall not convincing this sceptic. Is JGP more than an alternative to CM as a solution beyond RWC 23?

As non leinster person I just see it as bias

The leinster supporters would say he's too old or troll out some shit like sexton says park is better but reality is cooney wad best 9 in Ireland for about 2 years and didn't get a chance

He's a play making 9, maybe they want just a passing 9, though Murray and park are only marginally better than cooney

Had Ireland easy winners earlier in the week but the Ireland changes make it an even game

Ireland by 3

paddy no 11 wrote:

Portcullis Irish wrote:Genuine query of the Irish posters Why is Cooney 'persona non gratia'? JGP doesn't totally convince in similar manner to Randall not convincing this sceptic. Is JGP more than an alternative to CM as a solution beyond RWC 23?

As non leinster person I just see it as bias

The leinster supporters would say he's too old or troll out some shit like sexton says park is better but reality is cooney wad best 9 in Ireland for about 2 years and didn't get a chance

He's a play making 9, maybe they want just a passing 9, though Murray and park are only marginally better than cooney

The next generation of Irish SHs is already lining up. Doak of Ulster (about 20) - big, tough, smart, an old head on him, an all-round game and a good goal kicker. Casey of Munster - a real live wire with a fast pass, though at times a bit of a headless chicken, but that will sort out.
Of the present lot I'd have Marmion and Blade (both Connacht) ahead of JGP (who is OK on the front foot, but usually has a few brain farts.) Never figured why Marmion, who always played well for Ireland, lost his place on the squad. I think it was under Schmidt.
I would disagree with your suggestion that JGP is a better SH than Cooney, who, I think is the more rounded and reliable footballer.

Mikey Brown wrote:Is he high? Is he contractually obliged to spend so much time just spouting random jibberish to the media or something? Weren’t we ‘massive underdogs’ (or something to that effect) like 3 days ago?

Is he still that obsessed with South Africa that he hasn’t even noticed France? Or this him doing his lightning rod, 4D chess thing?

I must be missing something, that or his reference to physicality refers to fitness rather than brutality. As individuals we look to possess both but as a unit lacking in one.

I though France were massive on both fronts.

Timbo wrote:I still find a lot of the stuff he says interesting, even if some of it is nonsense. He’s talked about how he sees part of his job is selling a big match to the audience, a bit like a boxing promoter.

I would suggest not kicking the leather off the ball from 2019 through to 2021 and not finishing 5th in the 6N as the best ways to sell a match.

Apparently none of our starting backs outside of Smith have even scored a try this tournament.

I’m sure that’s all about Smith doing everything for himself though, not that he has nothing keeping the defence in check.

#BlameforSmith etc.

Mikey Brown wrote:Apparently none of our starting backs outside of Smith have even scored a try this tournament.

I’m sure that’s all about Smith doing everything for himself though, not that he has nothing keeping the defence in check.

#BlameforSmith etc.

Chicken meet egg

Mellsblue wrote:

Timbo wrote:I still find a lot of the stuff he says interesting, even if some of it is nonsense. He’s talked about how he sees part of his job is selling a big match to the audience, a bit like a boxing promoter.

I would suggest not kicking the leather off the ball from 2019 through to 2021 and not finishing 5th in the 6N as the best ways to sell a match.

He needs to win at least one of the two remaining games or it's 5th place again. As Healey says in the DT this morning - that's P45 time. I think Jones was a bad appointment originally and it was a huge error to keep him after 2019 BUT he must have something up his sleeve, surely? There must be a decent performance just around the corner for any retention of credibility. Two defeats AND two bad performances have to be unacceptable. We may not have bucket loads of world class players but we are not as bad as Jones has made us look this 6N so far.

Oakboy wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:

Timbo wrote:I still find a lot of the stuff he says interesting, even if some of it is nonsense. He’s talked about how he sees part of his job is selling a big match to the audience, a bit like a boxing promoter.

I would suggest not kicking the leather off the ball from 2019 through to 2021 and not finishing 5th in the 6N as the best ways to sell a match.

He needs to win at least one of the two remaining games or it's 5th place again. As Healey says in the DT this morning - that's P45 time. I think Jones was a bad appointment originally and it was a huge error to keep him after 2019 BUT he must have something up his sleeve, surely? There must be a decent performance just around the corner for any retention of credibility. Two defeats AND two bad performances have to be unacceptable. We may not have bucket loads of world class players but we are not as bad as Jones has made us look this 6N so far.

Had an identical conversation this time 4 or so years ago! And about every England coach since Woodward 2003, and every one before him bar Cooke and Mike Davis (and possibly Rowell, though he didn't use what he had well, but got results).