Autumn International Squad

[Spiffy]

Odd, because I've been told a number of times how slick our centre operation was when Farrell and JJ were in occupation , and also Scrumhead saying despite all his game time Slade has never really convinced at 13.....
Having asked the question re Tuilagi and the impact of his presence/non presence a number of times, we are now getting to the nub of it; its not Tuilagi per se, but how we want to play (this may get into chicken and egg territory now) under Eddie (and previously tbf).

Frankly, if you want a successful breaking 13, you really have to have a running threat at 12 and a 10 like Ford being able to play what's in front of them; it was true that we had a patch when JJ looked fantastic both sides of the ball, but we had a dominent pack at that point. To be really honest, I don't think Eddie really knows much about back play, and that's coupled with his belief (as you pointed out) that our strengths lie in power rather than guile and pace (I don't think he trusts the pack to make enough good decisions when playing fast and loose)- and that's where Manu plays in.
I'm still not convinced other than JJ we've produced other 13's you'd want to create the scenario you describe, though that's harsh on Marchant, who I agreed earlier had been treated strangely; I don't think Slade is an outside breaking centre at intl level tbh.

I've tried to avoid the F word, but he remains a road block for me at 12.

JJ did look very good for a while...before Jones. I pretty much agree with it all. But I do think Slade can make a nice outside break. Not in the class of JJ or Marchant - or, and I know this is my opinion... - George Lowe, who didn't get a look in for England, but he's still good at it, imo.

And yes, it's style, and yes, perhaps he's been backed into that because of the limitations of the players and himself.

JJ has played the majority of his games under Jones, and has looked excellent in Jones's teams, esp 2016-18; Jones brought him in as a regular, whereas he was a bit in and out under Burt. Slade's outside breaking ability at intl level would have to be questioned, he's not that quick at that level.
And yes, chicken meet egg

Still trying to figure out how JJ blotted his copy book and got the heave ho. A very good all-round 13 with a bit of pace, strength, sound defence and some rugby intelligence. Played many good games for England and was never memorably bad (filled in on the wing OK too.) He could well have had a bagful of caps by now. Don't know why Jones took the ugly.

[Banquo]

JJ did look very good for a while...before Jones. I pretty much agree with it all. But I do think Slade can make a nice outside break. Not in the class of JJ or Marchant - or, and I know this is my opinion... - George Lowe, who didn't get a look in for England, but he's still good at it, imo.

And yes, it's style, and yes, perhaps he's been backed into that because of the limitations of the players and himself.

JJ has played the majority of his games under Jones, and has looked excellent in Jones's teams, esp 2016-18; Jones brought him in as a regular, whereas he was a bit in and out under Burt. Slade's outside breaking ability at intl level would have to be questioned, he's not that quick at that level.
And yes, chicken meet egg

Still trying to figure out how JJ blotted his copy book and got the heave ho. A very good all-round 13 with a bit of pace, strength, sound defence and some rugby intelligence. Played many good games for England and was never memorably bad (filled in on the wing OK too.) He could well have had a bagful of caps by now. Don't know why Jones took the ugly.

He has got 50+ caps in fairness- he was favoured by Jones for a while, but he got hurt and wasn't quite the same player post injury. Terrific defender and actually in the system we were playing would have been ideal in defence. His time has gone though, even at Bath it seems.

[Puja]

Japan are looking like they'll be sturdy opposition. Just came within 7 points of overturning NZ this morning.

Puja

[twitchy]

[Scrumhead]

Good. The more competitive the better IMO. Although it’s fair to say Japan are normally considerably better at home than on the road.

We can’t afford to take them lightly now or next year so I’d prefer us to see and acknowledge the threat they bring rather than trip up at the RWC.

[Oakboy]

I think Japan being truly competitive at world level can only be good for the game. Let's hope theirs is an example for others to follow. A RWC involving more than 8 genuine contenders would raise rugby's profile, for example. Previously, has there ever been more than 4?

[Which Tyler]

Japan are looking like they'll be sturdy opposition. Just came within 7 points of overturning NZ this morning.

Puja

[Banquo]

Japan are looking like they'll be sturdy opposition. Just came within 7 points of overturning NZ this morning.

Puja

Nasty, but you see something pretty similar every game. They really need to crack down on this type of attempted clear out every time- the laws prohibit clearouts below hip height anyway. And you have to bind. And you can't lead with your shoulder.

[Which Tyler]

I'm really hoping it's the start of a clampdown, rather than the token card that means it can be ignored for the next 5 years.

FtR, I've already seen the predictable "what else is he supposed to do?" Just like we saw when the time Warburton was carded for a tip tackle, and the first time Dan Biggar landed on an innocent winger, and the first time Charlie Ewels didn't bend his hips, and the first time blah blah di blah.

In this case, the answers are obvious, and similar to previous examples.
1]Bind on the torso and croc role.
2] Bind on the torso and attempt to drive over.
3] Accept that you're too late, and the breakdown is already lost (and that losing possession is preferable to causing brain damage)

[fivepointer]

Not "super dangerous" as far as Marshall is concerned....ok.

Players have to least stay on their feet while trying to clear someone out. They should be looking to drive up, not pile down on to an exposed head/neck.

I think coaches accepting option 3 and devising a strategy to challenge the jackaller when he is in possession might be something they need to consider.

[Mellsblue]

Disagree on 1]. That just moves the potential injury from one part of the body to another, just ask Jack Willis.

[Which Tyler]

I'd agree it's a bad option but A] it's currently legal in rugby, and B] it's a hell of a lot less dangerous than hitting someone in the head with your shoulder.

[Mellsblue]

Just ban both. The croc roll shouldn’t be an option suggested if we’re looking at easy wins to make the game safer. It’s akin to telling someone not to punch someone else in the face but, instead, to punch them in the kidney (overly provocative to make a point).
2] and 3] are plentiful enough options.

[Which Tyler]

I'm good with that.

[Danno]

There's just no control whatsoever, which is my main takeaway. Just flies in as a human missile and whatever contact happens is ~at best~ a secondary consideration. Maybe stop anyone joining the breakdown from more than 1-2m out so you can't get that kind of momentum? I dunno.

[Margin_Walker]

Wider squad for the first game. Johnny May had a miraculous recovery. Naulago is an eye opener on the unavailable for selection list.

FORWARDS

Alex Coles (Northampton Saints, uncapped)
Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs, 37 caps)
Tom Curry (Sale Sharks, 41 caps)
Ellis Genge (Bristol Bears, 39 caps)
Joe Heyes (Leicester Tigers, 5 caps)
Jonny Hill (Sale Sharks, 15 caps)
Maro Itoje (Saracens, 58 caps)
George McGuigan (Newcastle Falcons, uncapped)
Tom Pearson (London Irish, uncapped)
Val Rapava Ruskin (Gloucester Rugby, uncapped)
David Ribbans (Northampton Saints, uncapped)
Sean Robinson (Newcastle Falcons, uncapped)
Bevan Rodd (Sale Sharks, 2 caps)
Sam Simmonds (Exeter Chiefs, 14 caps)
Kyle Sinckler (Bristol Bears, 52 caps)
Jack Singleton (Gloucester Rugby, 3 caps)
Hugh Tizard (Saracens, uncapped)
Billy Vunipola (Saracens, 64 caps)
Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 70 caps)
Jack Willis (unattached, 4 caps)
BACKS

Joe Cokanasiga (Bath Rugby, 12 caps)
Owen Farrell (Saracens, 97 caps)
George Furbank (Northampton Saints, 6 caps)
Will Joseph (London Irish, 1 cap)
Max Malins (Saracens, 14 caps)
Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby, 69 caps)
Cadan Murley (Harlequins, uncapped)
Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs, 42 caps)
Guy Porter (Leicester Tigers, 2 caps)
Raffi Quirke (Sale Sharks, 2 caps)
Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs, 48 caps)
Marcus Smith (Harlequins, 13 caps)
Freddie Steward (Leicester Tigers, 13 caps)
Manu Tuilagi (Sale Sharks, 46 caps)
Jack van Poortlviet (Leicester Tigers, 3 caps)
Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 117 caps)

Unavailable for selection due to injury: Alfie Barbeary, Ollie Chessum, Trevor Davison, Nic Dolly, Charlie Ewels, George Ford, Tommy Freeman, Jamie George, Sam Jeffries, Nick Isiekwe, Courtney Lawes, Lewis Ludlam, Louis Lynagh, Rato Naulago, Harry Randall, Will Stuart, Sam Underhill, Jack Walker.

[jimKRFC]

If Naulago goes off to play for England after not playing for Bristol for about 10 months then it'll be extremely annoying.. not to mention unfair on a bunch of players how've been fit and playing.

[fivepointer]

Thats bizarre. Naulago has never been in a squad and i'm not aware of him even being mentioned as someone who was being seriously looked at.
Radwan and Roebuck cut. Farrell and May back in.
as a Sean Robinson fan i'm very pleased he's been called up.
We have a quandary at 6 now that Lawes has been ruled out. Alex Coles to debut?

[Peej]

Or just Jack Willis/Ludlam to play alongside Curry and Billy?

Naulago is classic Eddie, it's like he's making up for a more conventional training squad. Imagine Atkinson might now appear for Tigers this weekend.

[rjjb]

Naulago (who?) listed as injured, but Arundell not. I think someone somewhere has ballsed up the list.

[Puja]

Naulago (who?) listed as injured, but Arundell not. I think someone somewhere has ballsed up the list.

Siva Naulago, the Fijian ex-league player at Bristol - fearsome try-scorer, but has spent most of the last year either injured or banned from high tackles (or both). Bizarre name to drop.

Good spot on Arundell. Maybe Eddie's dropped him as some kind of Eddie-like character-building-exercise?

Puja

[Margin_Walker]

LI confirmed today in a release that Arundell is rehabbing with England this week. Presumably he was an oversight on that list.

[Puja]

Let's have this in a better format, shall we?

Ellis Genge (Bristol Bears, 39 caps)
Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 70 caps)
Bevan Rodd (Sale Sharks, 2 caps)
Val Rapava Ruskin (Gloucester Rugby, uncapped)

Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs, 37 caps)
George McGuigan (Newcastle Falcons, uncapped)
Jack Singleton (Gloucester Rugby, 3 caps)

Joe Heyes (Leicester Tigers, 5 caps)
Kyle Sinckler (Bristol Bears, 52 caps)

Maro Itoje (Saracens, 58 caps)
Jonny Hill (Sale Sharks, 15 caps)
Hugh Tizard (Saracens, uncapped)
David Ribbans (Northampton Saints, uncapped)
Sean Robinson (Newcastle Falcons, uncapped)

Tom Curry (Sale Sharks, 41 caps)
Jack Willis (unattached, 4 caps)
Alex Coles (Northampton Saints, uncapped)
Tom Pearson (London Irish, uncapped)

Billy Vunipola (Saracens, 64 caps)
Sam Simmonds (Exeter Chiefs, 14 caps)


Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 117 caps)
Jack van Poortlviet (Leicester Tigers, 3 caps)
Raffi Quirke (Sale Sharks, 2 caps)

Marcus Smith (Harlequins, 13 caps)

Owen Farrell (Saracens, 97 caps)
Manu Tuilagi (Sale Sharks, 46 caps)
Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs, 48 caps)
Guy Porter (Leicester Tigers, 2 caps)
Will Joseph (London Irish, 1 cap)

Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby, 69 caps)
Joe Cokanasiga (Bath Rugby, 12 caps)
Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs, 42 caps)
Max Malins (Saracens, 14 caps)
Cadan Murley (Harlequins, uncapped)

Freddie Steward (Leicester Tigers, 13 caps)
George Furbank (Northampton Saints, 6 caps)


So, we have 4 looseheads, 2 tightheads, 5 or 6 locks (depending on how you count) of whch only two have been capped, and only two capped flankers. Interesting.

Puja

[Which Tyler]

Let's have this in a better format, shall we?

Thank you - I was just about to start

[Banquo]

The wings still look an odd assortment to me.