Italy v England, Saturday 3 Feb 2024, 2.15pm (ITV)

[Banquo]

In the long term, might Itoje accepting the captaincy when George departed be the most important outcome from this game?

Individual performances in a much-changed new era are likely to be patchy, I suppose, but did England show significant benefit in togetherness/slickness in defence/attack to justify their players not being available to clubs last weekend when the Scots were, for example?

There were a few surprises: Roots being so useful at the line-out, Underhill and Chessum playing below their normal level, George throwing in badly several times.

Was it my imagination but has Earl beefed up - at some cost in speed?

If it was Itoje, the decision to take a scrum at the end was a shocker.

Not sure why Underhill and even Chessum being below normal levels was a surprise- the former hasn't played for ages and the latter had been injured. George rushed one throw on a quick call from Itoje, but was fine otherwise (11/12 lineouts won).

But plenty of concerns outside the non concerns

[FKAS]

Perhaps they are more creative, imaginative, skillful, faster, better coached, and kick less. Just a suggestion, mind.

France and Italy kicked less than England but Wales, Italy and Scotland all kicked more. The kicking away of good attacking ball has tended to be the problem previously but not so much yesterday.

..but the other points are valid in fairness.

Yeah I wasn't disagreeing with those, only the kicking.

[Oakboy]

In the long term, might Itoje accepting the captaincy when George departed be the most important outcome from this game?

Individual performances in a much-changed new era are likely to be patchy, I suppose, but did England show significant benefit in togetherness/slickness in defence/attack to justify their players not being available to clubs last weekend when the Scots were, for example?

There were a few surprises: Roots being so useful at the line-out, Underhill and Chessum playing below their normal level, George throwing in badly several times.

Was it my imagination but has Earl beefed up - at some cost in speed?

If it was Itoje, the decision to take a scrum at the end was a shocker.

Not sure why Underhill and even Chessum being below normal levels was a surprise- the former hasn't played for ages and the latter had been injured. George rushed one throw on a quick call from Itoje, but was fine otherwise (11/12 lineouts won).

But plenty of concerns outside the non concerns

Do you rate C-S? Assuming Roots keeps the 6 shirt, would C-S at 8, Earl at 7 be a credible starting back-row v Wales?

[Banquo]

In the long term, might Itoje accepting the captaincy when George departed be the most important outcome from this game?

Individual performances in a much-changed new era are likely to be patchy, I suppose, but did England show significant benefit in togetherness/slickness in defence/attack to justify their players not being available to clubs last weekend when the Scots were, for example?

There were a few surprises: Roots being so useful at the line-out, Underhill and Chessum playing below their normal level, George throwing in badly several times.

Was it my imagination but has Earl beefed up - at some cost in speed?

If it was Itoje, the decision to take a scrum at the end was a shocker.

Not sure why Underhill and even Chessum being below normal levels was a surprise- the former hasn't played for ages and the latter had been injured. George rushed one throw on a quick call from Itoje, but was fine otherwise (11/12 lineouts won).

But plenty of concerns outside the non concerns

Do you rate C-S? Assuming Roots keeps the 6 shirt, would C-S at 8, Earl at 7 be a credible starting back-row v Wales?

He looked the part physically as folks have said, and actually looked keen to play rugby, which is great. No idea of his skill level as an 8 tbh. I didnt like the configuration of the back row at the scrum, no way should Roots ever pack down at openside from a scrum. So...depends on how skilled CCS is, and I genuinely dont know; to me it looked like him OR Roots, not both.

[p/d]

Dingers down as missing 5 tackles and making 3 metres ……. So not as bad as I thought.

[Banquo]

Dingers down as missing 5 tackles and making 3 metres ……. So not as bad as I thought.

we get it...you HATE him.



I thought he played well bar the hideous missed tackle....though Dan made one more metre than him . Ole Henry missed 2 tackles out of 5 as well. Dingers attempted the most tackles in the team, which should say something about what was happening in defence ( and two of those missed tackles were in the same move, he missed Ioane twice!)

[Banquo]

I'm reading a lot about how Freeman looks to be international quality in the press. No sh*t, hes looked that way since his very good debut in Oz. But hadn't started since iirc

[FKAS]

Roots has played a bit of 8 previously so could be shuffled back to 8 if required.

We did seem to lack a bit of physicality in the backrow with Underhill not making the hoped impact. CCS certainly helped provide some impact off the bench, can he deliver it from the start though?

Pearson to come in on the flank and offer more carrying?

[Banquo]

Roots has played a bit of 8 previously so could be shuffled back to 8 if required.

We did seem to lack a bit of physicality in the backrow with Underhill not making the hoped impact. CCS certainly helped provide some impact off the bench, can he deliver it from the start though?

Pearson to come in on the flank and offer more carrying?

Don't we actually need someone who is an 8? Pearson needs to improve ball retention but imo should get a go.

[FKAS]

I'm reading a lot about how Freeman looks to be international quality in the press. No sh*t, hes looked that way since his very good debut in Oz. But hadn't started since iirc

He looked ok on that tour. The new system with the back three coming into the line a lot more we showed yesterday really suited Freeman. Got him more touches which definitely helped him shine.

Dingwall did lead the side for missed tackles but he was also joint second for tackles made with 9. The only real errors were him forcing a pass in the Italian 22 that wasn't on which ended up as an Italian scrum and then the two missed tackles on the same for the final Italian try. I think he's done enough to get another shot again next week.

[Banquo]

on the upside, Still Boring captured a number of possible defectors yesterday. Dingers, Rooters (I assume), Finner, Cunners, Feyiners....

[p/d]

Dingers down as missing 5 tackles and making 3 metres ……. So not as bad as I thought.

we get it...you HATE him.



I thought he played well bar the hideous missed tackle....though Dan made one more metre than him

There is a lot more to hate than Dingwall. I actually really rate him and was so hoping he would be starting alongside a Smith. The Ford, Dingers and Slade combination was always going to take time to show cohesion, and he did grow as the game went on.
But boy oh boy we do need someone to straighten and carry

[p/d]

Roots has played a bit of 8 previously so could be shuffled back to 8 if required.

We did seem to lack a bit of physicality in the backrow with Underhill not making the hoped impact. CCS certainly helped provide some impact off the bench, can he deliver it from the start though?

Pearson to come in on the flank and offer more carrying?

Don't we actually need someone who is an 8? Pearson needs to improve ball retention but imo should get a go.

You would think wouldn’t you. Dombrandt to start and then Earl 7 and a 6 at 6. It might just work

[Banquo]

I'm reading a lot about how Freeman looks to be international quality in the press. No sh*t, hes looked that way since his very good debut in Oz. But hadn't started since iirc

He looked ok on that tour. The new system with the back three coming into the line a lot more we showed yesterday really suited Freeman. Got him more touches which definitely helped him shine.

Dingwall did lead the side for missed tackles but he was also joint second for tackles made with 9. The only real errors were him forcing a pass in the Italian 22 that wasn't on which ended up as an Italian scrum and then the two missed tackles on the same for the final Italian try. I think he's done enough to get another shot again next week.

He looked better than ok imo, solid, made breaks, completely at home in a backline that was pretty average with Porter sh*tting the bed and Faz awful at12 (I know I know).

Agreed on Dingwall; I have to say that having watched him a lot, some of my worries about his step up are still there- but he is smart and generally makes good decisions- his passing, bar once, was very good, and he always runs straight- may sound facile, but not many who need to do this, do so.

[Banquo]

Dingers down as missing 5 tackles and making 3 metres ……. So not as bad as I thought.

we get it...you HATE him.



I thought he played well bar the hideous missed tackle....though Dan made one more metre than him

There is a lot more to hate than Dingwall. I actually really rate him and was so hoping he would be starting alongside a Smith. The Ford, Dingers and Slade combination was always going to take time to show cohesion, and he did grow as the game went on.
But boy oh boy we do need someone to straighten and carry

lol...thats what he did do well when he got it, though distributing rather than carrying, bar once. I dont actually think Ford/Smith/Smith would ever work that well with Dingers/Slade. Dingers/Lawrence, Slade/Lawrence maybe.

[FKAS]

Roots has played a bit of 8 previously so could be shuffled back to 8 if required.

We did seem to lack a bit of physicality in the backrow with Underhill not making the hoped impact. CCS certainly helped provide some impact off the bench, can he deliver it from the start though?

Pearson to come in on the flank and offer more carrying?

Don't we actually need someone who is an 8? Pearson needs to improve ball retention but imo should get a go.

Earl can play 8, so can Roots. Recent attempts to play a specialist 8 in the role haven't really gone to plan.

Who have we got available;

Barbeary - banned
Fisilau - bit raw summer tour or A side likely for him
Dombrant - no impact in 15 caps so far
Billy V - NO
TWillis - injured
Mercer - seemingly refuses to work on what the England coaches have told him to
Chick - no

Who we tapping in to play 8?

[p/d]

I'm reading a lot about how Freeman looks to be international quality in the press. No sh*t, hes looked that way since his very good debut in Oz. But hadn't started since iirc

Class. No more needs to be said.

[Banquo]

Roots has played a bit of 8 previously so could be shuffled back to 8 if required.

We did seem to lack a bit of physicality in the backrow with Underhill not making the hoped impact. CCS certainly helped provide some impact off the bench, can he deliver it from the start though?

Pearson to come in on the flank and offer more carrying?

Don't we actually need someone who is an 8? Pearson needs to improve ball retention but imo should get a go.

Earl can play 8, so can Roots. Recent attempts to play a specialist 8 in the role haven't really gone to plan.

Who have we got available;

Barbeary - banned
Fisilau - bit raw summer tour or A side likely for him
Dombrant - no impact in 15 caps so far
Billy V - NO
TWillis - injured
Mercer - seemingly refuses to work on what the England coaches have told him to
Chick - no

Who we tapping in to play 8?

Oh I get it, but shoehorning Roots seems the worst of all worlds. Thus moving Earls and having Roots and CCS alongside doesn't appeal tbh. Who did Roots play 8 for out of interest- and this is assuming his two MOTM carries and a bit of lineout work confirm him as intl class.

[p/d]

we get it...you HATE him.



I thought he played well bar the hideous missed tackle....though Dan made one more metre than him

There is a lot more to hate than Dingwall. I actually really rate him and was so hoping he would be starting alongside a Smith. The Ford, Dingers and Slade combination was always going to take time to show cohesion, and he did grow as the game went on.
But boy oh boy we do need someone to straighten and carry

lol...thats what he did do well when he got it, though distributing rather than carrying, bar once. I dont actually think Ford/Smith/Smith would ever work that well with Dingers/Slade. Dingers/Lawrence, Slade/Lawrence maybe.

I’d be interested to see how many offloads our centres managed

[Banquo]

I'm reading a lot about how Freeman looks to be international quality in the press. No sh*t, hes looked that way since his very good debut in Oz. But hadn't started since iirc

Class. No more needs to be said.

It seemingly does- pundits are saying he's so much better now he's bigger! wtf

[p/d]

Mercer - seemingly refuses to work on what the England coaches have told him to

What you reckon that is? Curtail his running with the ball so there is no more than 2m between him and Dan Cole

[p/d]

I'm reading a lot about how Freeman looks to be international quality in the press. No sh*t, hes looked that way since his very good debut in Oz. But hadn't started since iirc

Class. No more needs to be said.

It seemingly does- pundits are saying he's so much better now he's bigger! wtf

They would be better off finding out who let the barber into camp rather than imagining reasons for why he has been overlooked for so long.

[Banquo]

Class. No more needs to be said.

It seemingly does- pundits are saying he's so much better now he's bigger! wtf

They would be better off finding out who let the barber into camp rather than imagining reasons for why he has been overlooked for so long.

arf. He seems to have also cut the Scots 15 hair as well

[p/d]

It seemingly does- pundits are saying he's so much better now he's bigger! wtf

They would be better off finding out who let the barber into camp rather than imagining reasons for why he has been overlooked for so long.

arf. He seems to have also cut the Scots 15 hair as well

Indeed. I bet De Glanville is shitting himself SB is at the other end of the phone

[twitchy]

I remember people asked what roots was like as a player and (I think) puja described him as some sort of donkey like penalty machine. Every one since has seemed to accept this description of him as gospel and run with it. I thought at the time "is he"?

I think he deserves to be rated on his actual performances now people have watched him first hand at test level.