RugbyRebels

I'd love to believe that politicians will take real honesty with the country as being the best way forwards, but when our most recent elections have gone to the biggest liars, to people who have blatantly broken the rules, I very much doubt that will be the case. Why should they?

As for the alienation that will be caused be a second referendum - yes, it will, but what's the better alternative?

Peat wrote:I'd love to believe that politicians will take real honesty with the country as being the best way forwards, but when our most recent elections have gone to the biggest liars, to people who have blatantly broken the rules, I very much doubt that will be the case. Why should they?

As for the alienation that will be caused be a second referendum - yes, it will, but what's the better alternative?

The only way I can see a second referrendum causing MORE alienation than currently exists, is if Remain wins by <5 points. Anything else will/should reduce alienation.
The reason there's so much alienation is that we sem to be taking such an extreme all-or-nothing victory (or at least, on one issue that simply doesn't have 100% support from the 51.9% who voted for it) from a 3.8 point victory for the side which is becoming less popular as demographic changes kick in; was also the side of the protest vote; and was the side with outright lies (as opposed to overly pessimistic predictions).
A second win for leave puts the argument to bed; a large win for remain puts the argument to bed (barring the extremes for both)

A 2nd vote is an absolutely shit option......but its the less shit option of those that are currently in front of us.

The problem with leaving - one of many admittedly - is that whatever way we go will be just the start. The real tough negotiations start then, as they must irrespective of how we depart from the EU. That means years and years of Govt & civil service being engaged in working out our future relationship and trying to fashion some kind of workable arrangement with each other, as well as pursuing those great trade deals that are just waiting for us out there.

Meanwhile important issues are sidelined and valuable resource is devoted to this one over riding priority. Brexit is not an event, it is a process.

Government confirms they're getting more serious about no deal Brexit, I can save them some money by saying there's not enough time to get into that even if the EU are willing to play ball.

Sadly I expect they're going to piss my taxes up to the wall on some expensive consultants who might start out saying they can help and then oddly fail to deliver

BREAKING: Government tells citizens to start preparing for no-deal Brexit as Cabinet agrees to ramp up preparations. Public service announcements to be made in the coming weeks. No10 spokesman: “These are the actions of a sensible government to ensure people are prepared.”

"sensible govt".......

fivepointer wrote:BREAKING: Government tells citizens to start preparing for no-deal Brexit as Cabinet agrees to ramp up preparations. Public service announcements to be made in the coming weeks. No10 spokesman: “These are the actions of a sensible government to ensure people are prepared.”

"sensible govt".......

They aren’t really planning for a no deal brexit. All they are doing is making a show to say that if May’s shit deal isn’t passed then the only other option is no deal.

As a plan it may play well with leave voters, but mps and the eu will see it for the bullshit and bluster it is

fivepointer wrote:BREAKING: Government tells citizens to start preparing for no-deal Brexit

Other than fleeing the country and applying for an overseas passport - how the hell are citizens supposed to start preparing? Are they really endorsing panic-buying an stockpiling of foods and medicines? a week before Christmas, when everyone's doing exactly that anyway?
I guess we could add pitchforks and torches to the stockpile; but what else?

We've clearly ordered too many vacuum packs of chestnuts so if anyone is stuck in the coming months I could help. I probably wouldn't, get your own, but I could

Which Tyler wrote:

fivepointer wrote:BREAKING: Government tells citizens to start preparing for no-deal Brexit

Other than fleeing the country and applying for an overseas passport - how the hell are citizens supposed to start preparing? Are they really endorsing panic-buying an stockpiling of foods and medicines? a week before Christmas, when everyone's doing exactly that anyway?
I guess we could add pitchforks and torches to the stockpile; but what else?

Liquidate your savings and place them in offshore tax havens?

Peat wrote:

Which Tyler wrote:

fivepointer wrote:BREAKING: Government tells citizens to start preparing for no-deal Brexit

Other than fleeing the country and applying for an overseas passport - how the hell are citizens supposed to start preparing? Are they really endorsing panic-buying an stockpiling of foods and medicines? a week before Christmas, when everyone's doing exactly that anyway?
I guess we could add pitchforks and torches to the stockpile; but what else?

Liquidate your savings and place them in offshore tax havens?

Savings?
Presumably only caring about the top 5% then - bloody Tories!

When does the EU ATAD come in? It would be good to see this rushed forwards ahead of any brexit date. I have no issue with additional targeting of suspected tax avoiders in the initial roll out.

Dominic Raab now wants to give the £34bn saved on EU contributions away to business in tax breaks. What a surprise. Never saw that coming....

Hasn’t the extra NHS funding already been accounted for, at least in the short term, by the better than predicted finances? Though, with the ONS now moving 40% of the student loan book on to the govts books, that picture may not be so rosy. That said, no, it’s no surprise that the the EU contribution money has been reallocated.

Mellsblue wrote:Hasn’t the extra NHS funding already been accounted for, at least in the short term, by the better than predicted finances? Though, with the ONS now moving 40% of the student loan book on to the govts books, that picture may not be so rosy. That said, no, it’s no surprise that the the EU contribution money has been reallocated.

Reallocated? Tax cuts to business to offset the additional costs and lost business brexit is predicted to cause is less a reallocation than it is simply pissed up against a wall. It is as if that money never existed for your average leave bigot (someone who voted leave as a proxy for less immigration).

canta_brian wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:Hasn’t the extra NHS funding already been accounted for, at least in the short term, by the better than predicted finances? Though, with the ONS now moving 40% of the student loan book on to the govts books, that picture may not be so rosy. That said, no, it’s no surprise that the the EU contribution money has been reallocated.

Reallocated? Tax cuts to business to offset the additional costs and lost business brexit is predicted to cause is less a reallocation than it is simply pissed up against a wall. It is as if that money never existed for your average leave bigot (someone who voted leave as a proxy for less immigration).

Calm down. It’s just a word, wearily typed, to make my point. Don’t let that Brexit vortex drag you in.

Stones of granite wrote:Dominic Raab now wants to give the £34bn saved on EU contributions away to business in tax breaks. What a surprise. Never saw that coming....

Where is the figure of £34 billion coming from, is that predicted contributions over a full period in government under the FTPA?

Mellsblue wrote:

canta_brian wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:Hasn’t the extra NHS funding already been accounted for, at least in the short term, by the better than predicted finances? Though, with the ONS now moving 40% of the student loan book on to the govts books, that picture may not be so rosy. That said, no, it’s no surprise that the the EU contribution money has been reallocated.

Reallocated? Tax cuts to business to offset the additional costs and lost business brexit is predicted to cause is less a reallocation than it is simply pissed up against a wall. It is as if that money never existed for your average leave bigot (someone who voted leave as a proxy for less immigration).

Calm down. It’s just a word, wearily typed, to make my point. Don’t let that Brexit vortex drag you in.

Not a pop at you. Just saying a “brexit dividend” is hardly to be lauded if it only offsets the costs that leaving cause.

canta_brian wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:

canta_brian wrote:
Reallocated? Tax cuts to business to offset the additional costs and lost business brexit is predicted to cause is less a reallocation than it is simply pissed up against a wall. It is as if that money never existed for your average leave bigot (someone who voted leave as a proxy for less immigration).

Calm down. It’s just a word, wearily typed, to make my point. Don’t let that Brexit vortex drag you in.

Not a pop at you. Just saying a “brexit dividend” is hardly to be lauded if it only offsets the costs that leaving cause.

Couldn’t agree more.

canta_brian wrote:

fivepointer wrote: BREAKING: Government tells citizens to start preparing for no-deal Brexit as Cabinet agrees to ramp up preparations. Public service announcements to be made in the coming weeks. No10 spokesman: “These are the actions of a sensible government to ensure people are prepared.”

"sensible govt".......

They aren’t really planning for a no deal brexit. All they are doing is making a show to say that if May’s shit deal isn’t passed then the only other option is no deal.

As a plan it may play well with leave voters, but mps and the eu will see it for the bullshit and bluster it is

The UK Government has been planning for a WTO relationship (deals have already been agreed Euratom, CTC etc..) between the UK and EU for over year. The company I work for has access to Ministers and has been aware for a while (~12mths) of it, and our customers (construction, automotive, pharma, agriculture and others) have been preparing for nearly as long. With agreement of CTC (https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-t ... ter-brexit) a lot of boarder issues go away (inlcuding NI...).

The feed back from head office (again good access to government/EU) is that they (except the Dutch) have not prepared for WTO until now.

jimKRFC wrote:

canta_brian wrote:

fivepointer wrote: BREAKING: Government tells citizens to start preparing for no-deal Brexit as Cabinet agrees to ramp up preparations. Public service announcements to be made in the coming weeks. No10 spokesman: “These are the actions of a sensible government to ensure people are prepared.”

"sensible govt".......

They aren’t really planning for a no deal brexit. All they are doing is making a show to say that if May’s shit deal isn’t passed then the only other option is no deal.

As a plan it may play well with leave voters, but mps and the eu will see it for the bullshit and bluster it is

The UK Government has been planning for a WTO relationship (deals have already been agreed Euratom, CTC etc..) between the UK and EU for over year. The company I work for has access to Ministers and has been aware for a while (~12mths) of it, and our customers (construction, automotive, pharma, agriculture and others) have been preparing for nearly as long. With agreement of CTC (https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-t ... ter-brexit) a lot of boarder issues go away (inlcuding NI...).

The feed back from head office (again good access to government/EU) is that they (except the Dutch) have not prepared for WTO until now.

Excellent! One question, though. Is the legal jurisdiction under the ECJ? Is this another example of the UK "taking back control" by submitting to a jurisdiction we no longer have any influence over?

http://ukandeu.ac.uk/new-report-explain ... ould-mean/

Put together by serious, informed people who know what they are on about.

Pascal Lamy, former DG of the WTO, has described leaving the EU (and SM) and going to WTO as moving from 1st to 4th division.

Stones of granite wrote: Excellent! One question, though. Is the legal jurisdiction under the ECJ? Is this another example of the UK "taking back control" by submitting to a jurisdiction we no longer have any influence over?

To be honest I'm not sure. I guess it would depend on where the companies in dispute were based (EU or non-EU).

Jeremy says it's all go for brexit if Labour win a snap election. Mind he also says it's for the party as a whole to decide the position on a second referendum, which is less honest than any attempt for Philip Green to set out he paid enough tax. Corbyn's bullshit on allowing the party to decide on any second referendum is so bad it's less honest than listening to Boris

Having to hire a ferry company with no travel routes, staff or boats in the name of appearing to do something nicely sums up the government's approach to brexit in 2018