RugbyRebels

Incredible effort given the absentees.

Can't see us beating this NZ side but the players we have missing are insane now - players that would likely have got into any of the recent winning sides in several cases:

- Curry x2
- Cokanasiga
- Maunder
- Isiekwe
- Aspland-Robinson

There's more I'm sure - an incredible group

Any links for the NZ - France match please?

WaspInWales wrote:Any links for the NZ - France match please?

ITV4 if you are uk.

It's bizarre to watch an England team with no sort of set piece, no driving game, no real tight power game in phase play...winning games through pace, skill, confidence, quality breakdown work and fitness.

It's like we're...Australian.

Timbo wrote:It's bizarre to watch an England team with no sort of set piece, no driving game, no real tight power game in phase play...winning games through pace, skill, confidence, quality breakdown work and fitness.

It's like we're...Australian.

It's actually bizarre.

twitchy wrote:

WaspInWales wrote:Any links for the NZ - France match please?

ITV4 if you are uk.

Tidy...thanks. Didn't realise it was on proper telly.

Banquo wrote:

Raggs wrote:Billy was talented but too fat to work hard. Mercer definitely isn't too fat...

However he did put in a very big shift just a few days ago so should be forgiven if he looks a bit slower today.

and how did Billy become less fat?

Not really sure what you're aiming at here? Better diet was the main answer I believe. Inspired by his brother Mako, lost a good 15kg I believe with Wasps after breaking through, and shed a further 15kg or so with Sarries. The workrate he now puts in is ridiculous. My point is, Mercer is already in good shape, so his lack of workrate cannot be simply blamed on excess pounds. However I disagree with Flatman, as I believe it's not attitude but rather being shattered from so many games in such a short time, and playing a huge part in each.

I thought Mercer was fantastic - again. He really is a top player and one we should be very excited about. Elsewhere Caulfield put in another tremendous grafting performance, Malins looked classy and Ibitoye threatened every time he had the ball.
With a functioning, consistent set piece i fancy we would have won that game very comfortably.
We really need to iron this out for the final. With a platform we 're in with a shout. Without one we are going to struggle.
All round huge pats on the back to everyone, as just getting to the final is quite some achievement.

Over the course of the programme they discussed mercer. I don't think flatman was trying to have a go at him. Maybe just try and keep his feet on the ground and give him some feedback about where he can improve. He is obviously a confident lad (and rightly so).

fivepointer wrote:I thought Mercer was fantastic - again. He really is a top player and one we should be very excited about. Elsewhere Caulfield put in another tremendous grafting performance, Malins looked classy and Ibitoye threatened every time he had the ball.
With a functioning, consistent set piece i fancy we would have won that game very comfortably.
We really need to iron this out for the final. With a platform we 're in with a shout. Without one we are going to struggle.
All round huge pats on the back to everyone, as just getting to the final is quite some achievement.

With such a terrible set piece NZ will run riot over us. You simply can't concede possession against a team like that. Clews looks like he is screwed as well and he was key to our game plan? Can we call any one else up? We are basically walking wounded at this point.

Raggs wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Raggs wrote:Billy was talented but too fat to work hard. Mercer definitely isn't too fat...

However he did put in a very big shift just a few days ago so should be forgiven if he looks a bit slower today.

and how did Billy become less fat?

Not really sure what you're aiming at here? Better diet was the main answer I believe. Inspired by his brother Mako, lost a good 15kg I believe with Wasps after breaking through, and shed a further 15kg or so with Sarries. The workrate he now puts in is ridiculous. My point is, Mercer is already in good shape, so his lack of workrate cannot be simply blamed on excess pounds. However I disagree with Flatman, as I believe it's not attitude but rather being shattered from so many games in such a short time, and playing a huge part in each.

I meant he changed his mindset (lost weight) and worked harder; I was making a more general point originally (referencing Billy), that mindset/workrate (if needed with Mercer, and that's being doubted) is easier to work on than lack of ability.

fivepointer wrote:I thought Mercer was fantastic - again. He really is a top player and one we should be very excited about. Elsewhere Caulfield put in another tremendous grafting performance, Malins looked classy and Ibitoye threatened every time he had the ball.
With a functioning, consistent set piece i fancy we would have won that game very comfortably.
We really need to iron this out for the final. With a platform we 're in with a shout. Without one we are going to struggle.
All round huge pats on the back to everyone, as just getting to the final is quite some achievement.

I didn't see the game, so I can't comment on today, but the set-piece has been poor throughout so it sounds as though nothing has changed. Isiekwe would have made a difference to the scrum and the lineout, but Caulfield, Clegg and Nay are all capable so I suspect the issue is more with the front row. This bunch don't look as strong 1-3 as our previous sides IMO.

If TBC is out, I imagine Butler will drop back in to 12 with a change at 13. Ibitoye has played there before for Quins and England U18s so he could be an option with Odogwu coming in on the wing?

Yeah it was the front row. Also our line out was getting snatched with ease.

twitchy wrote:Yeah it was the front row. Also our line out was getting snatched with ease.

oo er

Timbo wrote:Don't really see where Flatman is coming from with that assessment tbh. Mercer has a huge skill set and seems to work plenty hard to me. Sometimes it feels like he's doing too much and trying too hard if anything.

But that aside, the two Sarries boys Mallins and Earle need to be playing proper senior rugby next season. Both hugely impressive.

I haven't seen the game, but from what people say I can kind of see where he's coming from regarding Mercer. I've seen odd games for Bath were he did look a little off the pace . I always put it down to be being overpowered rather than work rate, but I would say that the Curry's do seem more involved in matches even when the side thye are on is outmatched.

He does have a huge skill set and a big future, but we should remember that a lot of us were saying that about Alex Grey. An 8 in a similar mould IIRC.

Perhaps, but Gray only ever looked good in age grade rugby. I remember the hype, but I don't ever recall him looking that great against senior level opposition. As a direct comparison, I'd argue Mercer has already looked at home in senior rugby.

One key player who isnt there is Joe Morris, our best THP. He would have helped stabilise our scrum and Isiekwe is far superior to our other locks. Missing these 2 has reduced our front 5 effectiveness considerably.
I'm surprised our line out isnt a lot better with Louis Deacon as one of the coaches. Sure there are some duff throws - today we saw a few under thrown and a few overthrown - but some of the calling and movement are questionable. I could pick out where the ball was going sitting at home at times.

I always assumed Mercer stayed with the u20's because our first and second choice 8's are sorted and the Currys travelled as our options at 7's most certainly are not.

Just for context in terms of slacking Mercer made 23 carries today!!!

Did anyone watch NZ v France? WTF happened to make it a 36-0 first half and a 0-26 seconmd half? Was the pitch on a massive slope or something?

Mellsblue wrote:I always assumed Mercer stayed with the u20's because our first and second choice 8's are sorted and the Currys travelled as our options at 7's most certainly are not.

Yeah - same as

Epaminondas Pules wrote:Just for context in terms of slacking Mercer made 23 carries today!!!

Lazy shit.

Lizard wrote:Did anyone watch NZ v France? WTF happened to make it a 36-0 first half and a 0-26 seconmd half? Was the pitch on a massive slope or something?

I believe Wayne Barnes had the whistle for the second half.

twitchy wrote:In other news NZ look ridiculously good vs france. With more injuries we are in for a tough time I reckon.

Yeah, I think we should celebrate a good tournament in getting to the final now and not be too disappointed when whatever XXIII players are still standing lose to NZ.

Is it just me or does Umaga really not look ready for this level? I hope to god that TBC can be patched up.

Puja

Mellsblue wrote:

Lizard wrote:Did anyone watch NZ v France? WTF happened to make it a 36-0 first half and a 0-26 seconmd half? Was the pitch on a massive slope or something?

I believe Wayne Barnes had the whistle for the second half.

I'd be willing to allow NZ lost some level of concentration, and too NZ made some early subs having won the game with I assume some thoughts to giving them an easier recovery ahead of the final.

It was also only 29-0 in the first half wasn't it, with NZ scoring first in the 2nd half? (following which I recall some subs were made, possibly in error)