RugbyRebels

Oakboy wrote:

Puja wrote:On a non-backrow note, the Guardian says that Farrell has been "a peripheral figure in training" suggesting that the 25 man squad is to rest him and Mako. They also say that the backline running in training has been Ford, Lozowski, Slade.

Puja

I saw that too but no mention of the SH. I hope Care gets a start on the grounds that he can move the ball more quickly than Youngs does. I say 'can' knowing that he doesn't always. How I wish a decent SH would drop in from somewhere.

Genia is probably the form scrum half in the world, and BYoungs has just outplayed him pretty handily, then Care came on and won the game for us...possibly Eddie thinks he has 2 very decent 9’s already.

Puja wrote:They also say that the backline running in training has been Ford, Lozowski, Slade.

Puja

Tidy

Mellsblue wrote:

Oakboy wrote:

Puja wrote:On a non-backrow note, the Guardian says that Farrell has been "a peripheral figure in training" suggesting that the 25 man squad is to rest him and Mako. They also say that the backline running in training has been Ford, Lozowski, Slade.

Puja

I saw that too but no mention of the SH. I hope Care gets a start on the grounds that he can move the ball more quickly than Youngs does. I say 'can' knowing that he doesn't always. How I wish a decent SH would drop in from somewhere.

I can’t see it happening, not in the long term anyway. Jones seems to have an obvious plan of keeping things tighter in the first 50/60 mins before releasing a more dynamic bench. I’m sure if he has the option to use dynamic players both in the starting XV and as replacements he would do so but where he has a choice between consistent and steady vs dynamic he’ll leave the dynamic player on the bench even if he may think him the better player.

Tbh, I've always thought that whichever of Cares and Youngs subs for any given game will look more dynamic than the one who didn't. That's what I've seen for the vast majority of their England career together.

Which I guess it means it doesn't matter what you do with them, but I do wonder about what other people saw in Danny Care's numerous other England starts that I didn't.

Either way though, I'd argue that if you're hoping for an upgrade on them, you're actually hoping for a World Class SH.

If either Care or Youngs is crocked a week from the the start of the 6N's, who comes in?

fivepointer wrote:If either Care or Youngs is crocked a week from the the start of the 6N's, who comes in?

If Maunder is playing for Chiefs, then him. Otherwise, my guess would be Wigglesworth.

Timbo wrote:

fivepointer wrote:If either Care or Youngs is crocked a week from the the start of the 6N's, who comes in?

If Maunder is playing for Chiefs, then him. Otherwise, my guess would be Wigglesworth.

Yep. I imagine that decision would depend upon the severity of the injury. If either were to miss the whole 6N, I imagine it would almost certainly be Wigglesworth.

I can’t see Eddie chucking Maunder in at the deep end unless it was against Italy.

But those being his two options must surely bother him? At least enough to discard the 5th 10/12 option from a squad, for instance, you’d think?

Mikey Brown wrote:But those being his two options must surely bother him? At least enough to discard the 5th 10/12 option from a squad, for instance, you’d think?

Theres that and developing our 6th choice lock is pretty important too. But looking at a 3rd choice player in one of the key positions in the team isnt a priority.
Its hard to knock Eddie given his record, but this is one area that is genuinely baffling.

I really believe that Wiggles is his 3rd choice. He'd then have 3 of his likely hoped for fly halves (Smith, Farrell, Ford) all paired at the clubs with the scrum halves.

Surely Itoje and Lawes will cover scrumhalf in the case of an injury crisis.

I'd just move Ford to 9.

Robshaw is playing it seems in which case I'd go for 6 Itoje, 7 Robshaw, 8 Simmonds. Had Hughes been fit, I would've done 6 Itoje, 7 Simmonds, 8 Hughes.

I'm not that interested in Simmonds as an 8 seeing as we have Billy and Hughes (and I think Morgan is better than Hughes). We need some decent flank options so I'd really like to see Simmonds on the side of the scrum but hey-ho.

Incidentally, I have no idea why he's dropped Watson, who we need to give as many shots at 15 as we can. That seems odd to me.

I think I'd start Genge, to put some pressure on Marler. I'd also start Williams and George, Care and Roko.

Oakboy wrote: I'd just move Ford to 9.

Do you mean that?

Timbo wrote:

Oakboy wrote:

Puja wrote:On a non-backrow note, the Guardian says that Farrell has been "a peripheral figure in training" suggesting that the 25 man squad is to rest him and Mako. They also say that the backline running in training has been Ford, Lozowski, Slade.

Puja

I saw that too but no mention of the SH. I hope Care gets a start on the grounds that he can move the ball more quickly than Youngs does. I say 'can' knowing that he doesn't always. How I wish a decent SH would drop in from somewhere.

Genia is probably the form scrum half in the world, and BYoungs has just outplayed him pretty handily, then Care came on and won the game for us...possibly Eddie thinks he has 2 very decent 9’s already.

This.

He does.

Mellsblue wrote:Surely Itoje and Lawes will cover scrumhalf in the case of an injury crisis.

I think Williams is the man for that.

jngf wrote:I would welcome the opportunity to see what Simmonds can do from openside and I recall that great opensides like Michael Jones played club rugby at 8 when first selected for the test openside berth in a similar way both Calder and Jeffry played at 8 for their respective clubs but shared the openside and blindside duties at test level - I’ve a gut feeling Simmons could similarly adapt and his work rate and mobility coming off the bench in the first two tests indicates to me that unlike Billy, Hughes and arguably Clifford - Simmonds is not simply an out and out No.8

I’d actually like to see 6.Robshaw 7.Simmonds 8.Itoje tried - but not holding my breath...

I love your creativity and I get fed up with others not being open to trying things but Itoje at 8? I can't see that. Yes he could play at 8 and may go fairly well, but we can be pretty sure I think that we wouldn't be getting from our 8 what top sides need to win 6ns, WCs etc, so I really can't see the point.

Dasheragain wrote:Incidentally, I have no idea why he's dropped Watson, who we need to give as many shots at 15 as we can. That seems odd to me.

I think I'd start Genge, to put some pressure on Marler. I'd also start Williams and George, Care and Roko.

Only reason for dropping Watson that I can see is to give Brown one last run out at HQ. But I can't imagine Eddie is doing that. I would have actually rested Watson and JJ myself, so perhaps Bath have agreed not to play them this weekend?

bitts wrote:

Dasheragain wrote:Incidentally, I have no idea why he's dropped Watson, who we need to give as many shots at 15 as we can. That seems odd to me.

I think I'd start Genge, to put some pressure on Marler. I'd also start Williams and George, Care and Roko.

Only reason for dropping Watson that I can see is to give Brown one last run out at HQ. But I can't imagine Eddie is doing that. I would have actually rested Watson and JJ myself, so perhaps Bath have agreed not to play them this weekend?

I’m hoping it’s just a case of giving a rest to those Lions boys who haven’t yet had one.

England team to play Samoa

15 Mike Brown (Harlequins 63 caps), 14 Jonny May (Leicester Tigers 28 caps), 13 Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs 9 caps), 12 Alex Lozowski (Saracens 3 caps), 11 Elliot Daly (Wasps 15 caps), 10 George Ford (Leicester Tigers 39 caps) co-captain, 9 Danny Care (Harlequins 75 caps), 1 Ellis Genge (Leicester Tigers 4 caps), 2 Jamie George (Saracens 19 caps), 3 Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers 76 caps), 4 Joe Launchbury (Wasps 46 caps), 5 Charlie Ewels (Bath Rugby 5 caps), 6 Maro Itoje (Saracens 13 caps), 7 Chris Robshaw (Harlequins 58 caps) co-captain, 8 Sam Simmonds (Exeter Chiefs 2 caps).

Finishers

16 Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints 88 caps), 17 Joe Marler (Harlequins 52 caps), 18 Harry Williams (Exeter Chiefs 4 caps), 19 Nick Isiekwe (Saracens 1 cap), 20 Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints 60 caps), 21 Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers 72 caps), 22 Piers Francis (Northampton Saints 2 caps), 23 Semesa Rokoduguni (Bath Rugby 3 caps).

Co-captains. FFS.

I'm not a Roko fan but why isn't he starting? Daly is overworked and has been injured.

So, Robshaw is an acceptable 7 for Eddie!! Itoje at 6 without Lawes in the XV to shuffle. If Robshaw or Simmonds get injured a few whingers aren't going to like the subsequent back-row. I wonder if Eddie will take one of them off at some point just to see what happens.

Agreed on Daly - you'd've said he was a prime candidate for a rest like Mako and probably more so than Watson.

Little disappointed that Cole's got the nod over giving Williams a shot, but overall that's as expected.

Puja

Oakboy wrote:I'm not a Roko fan but why isn't he starting? Daly is overworked and has been injured.

So, Robshaw is an acceptable 7 for Eddie!! Itoje at 6 without Lawes in the XV to shuffle. If Robshaw or Simmonds get injured a few whingers aren't going to like the subsequent back-row. I wonder if Eddie will take one of them off at some point just to see what happens.

Agreed re Daly.

Why whingers? Would you be happy with Itoje at 7/8 or Robshaw at 8. Remember the last time we had a flanker at 8?!?!?!?

I've already voiced my concerns over the back row bodge. Its foolish in my view but we're stuck with it.
the prop selection provokes 3 cheers (Genge starting) and a loud boo (Williams still on the bench). At hooker, George starting is long overdue.
Loz starting is good news and getting Francis involved makes sense, as does giving Ewels a chance.
There's a lot to like and to look forward to in this selection. Shame that there's still a couple of areas that are not quite satisfactory.