The Pain in Spain (poll)

[Digby]

There' yet another hearing due. It was going to be in Dublin, it might now be in London by the sounds of it.

[rowan]

Not sure if this is a clue, but the inter-continental playoff between Samoa and a European team has been pushed back a month and there is no sign of Romania in the tier 1 & 2 summer fixtures list, indicating they are the team expected to be involved in the playoff. The Oaks had been down to play friendlies with Fiji and Tonga - provided they qualified directly for the RWC.

[rowan]

Now the Samoans are unhappy about the inter-continental qualifier being put back a month. Could this be handled any worse?

A similar eligibility scandal arised in the Tahiti vs Cook Islands match last year, where the result was overturned and Tahiti disqualified.

Daniel Leo believes the same standard should apply in Europe, so as not to disadvantage Samoa, who have done nothing wrong.

"The fact that they're talking about replaying the match between Spain and Belgium is a farce because if they're going to replay that match in theory and according to precedent they should replay the Cook Islands vs Tahiti match," he said.

"It reeks of double standards and now it's having that knock-on effect where Samoa might not be able to put forward their best team for the repechage playoff against whoever."

World Rugby is expected to announce its decision regarding the European qualifying debacle by the end of this week.

https://www.radionz.co.nz/international ... n-jeopardy

[Digby]

Yes this could be handled worse, but it's not being handled well. Still waiting on the final hearing where a number of the sides involved are likely to present further legal claims in person.

[rowan]

Apparently the decision is still a week away. A Georgian rugby site has suggested both Romania and Spain will be disqualified, apparently quoting a Russian source. The plot thickens . . .

[rowan]

There's definitely been a leak. The Georgian story taken from a Russian source has now popped up on an American rugby web-site, the gist being as follows:


- Belgium will be disqualified for breaching player eligibility laws in RWC qualifiers.
- Romania will be disqualified for breaching player eligibility laws in RWC qualifiers.
- Spain will be disqualified for breaching player eligibility laws in RWC qualifiers.
- Russia has been cleared and will be confirmed as Europe 1.
- Germany has been cleared and will become the second placed side behind Russia.
- Portugal will play against Germany with the winner officially becoming Europe 2.
- Samoa will play the winner of Europe 2 in a home-and-away RWC Play-Off.

http://www.americarugbynews.com/2018/05 ... qualified/

[Digby]

So we're saying after the World Rugby submissions detailing actions which didn't include teams being disqualified (though in some respect what difference) and before the next hearing even takes place (next week 10th May) they've made some new rulings?

I have my doubts the IRB will want to push on player eligibility overly given some of the nonsense this situation has thrown and is throwing up.

[rowan]

We could dismiss it as the Russians trying to push their own case for direct qualification, but why would the Georgians take them seriously, and why would an American web-site, in turn, take the Georgians seriously. Remember that it was an obscure Russian source that broke the Sione Faka’osilea story, and that turned out to be true - in as much as it was soon picked up by the international press and the case is now being scrutinized by World Rugby, of course.

Hypothetically-speaking, if this also turned out to be true, it would undoubtedly be one of the most controversial stories to hit rugby in decades. It would mean a tier 2 teams missing out for the first time since expansion in 99, and would entail an added twist for Spain and Russia, whose roles were reversed during the qualifying series for 2003, where Spain debuted after Russia were disqualified. Meanwhile, if Germany took on Samoa with its current sponsorship row still not resolved, they'd probably concede a ton in the away leg - and that's if they even got past Portugal in the European playoff. If all this transpires the real winners, aside from Russia obviously, will be Canada, who should cruise through the repechage tournament in spite of their current low ebb.

[Digby]

Russia and Germany are set to progress without seeing teams DQ'd so I don't see what they'd gain.

[rowan]

My response to an article suggesting Samoa boycott the World Cup in indignation. 90 likes already

http://sobserver.ws/en/07_05_2018/lette ... hrough.htm

[Digby]

I'm only surprised you didn't click on it more than 90 times

[rowan]

It's only a few hits off the most read list as well. I'm sure I haven't read it 750-odd times myself.

Meanwhile, the prevalent view in ENC circles right now, judging from what I've read online, is that the Russian-sourced Georgian report is right, and Romania, Spain and Belgium are all going to be disqualified like Tahiti, sending Russia to the World Cup and Germany to the play-off with Samoa.

[Digby]

Again the points deductions as proposed already sends Russia and Germany through from the group, nothing in this hearing coming up on Thursday is likely to change that. And it's not clear why further to previously suggested sanctions there'd now be a new round of sanctions being officially stipulated 3 days before the hearing into this, nor why those official sanctions between two English and a Saffer judge would be getting reported in Georgia, so anything one reads on this is more baseless gossip than anything else it would seem

[rowan]

Again the points deductions as proposed already sends Russia and Germany through from the group, nothing in this hearing coming up on Thursday is likely to change that. And it's not clear why further to previously suggested sanctions there'd now be a new round of sanctions being officially stipulated 3 days before the hearing into this, nor why those official sanctions between two English and a Saffer judge would be getting reported in Georgia, so anything one reads on this is more baseless gossip than anything else it would seem

If so, the Germans need to wake up and sort out their sponsorship issue in a hurry. They won't beat Samoa but could be a realistic contender in the repechage tournament if back to full strength. Probably Canada is going to win that now and limp into Japan after all, but the Krauts will certainly want to give a good account of themselves with the international spotlight firmly upon them. As for Russia, it'll be good to see them back. There's not a lot of difference between them and Spain in terms of standard, though Los Leones tend to play a more attractive brand of rugby.

Still a shame the way it's worked out though. I'd really liked to have seen a tier 2 team miss out on merit (Romania or Canada), which looked certain just a few months ago. That would have strengthened the case for expansion to 24 in the 2020s. But I'm not sure Romania missing out through disqualification would have the same effect. Probably not.

[Digby]

We're unlikely to get an answer this coming Thursday as the hearing is scheduled to run approx 5pm to 10pm. Please don't be alarmed for their comfort they do plan to take a break for sandwiches. So I'd guess we get an announcement on Friday, unless they really have already decided and push out pres release straight after the hearing.

[rowan]

We're unlikely to get an answer this coming Thursday as the hearing is scheduled to run approx 5pm to 10pm. Please don't be alarmed for their comfort they do plan to take a break for sandwiches. So I'd guess we get an announcement on Friday, unless they really have already decided and push out pres release straight after the hearing.

Mondays and Fridays seem to be their preferred days for press releases, for whatever reason, so that sounds about right.

[Puja]

We're unlikely to get an answer this coming Thursday as the hearing is scheduled to run approx 5pm to 10pm. Please don't be alarmed for their comfort they do plan to take a break for sandwiches. So I'd guess we get an announcement on Friday, unless they really have already decided and push out pres release straight after the hearing.

Sandwiches?! How horribly common. I was expecting 5pm-10pm, where the middle 4 hours are taken up by a rather good dinner.

Puja

[Digby]

We're unlikely to get an answer this coming Thursday as the hearing is scheduled to run approx 5pm to 10pm. Please don't be alarmed for their comfort they do plan to take a break for sandwiches. So I'd guess we get an announcement on Friday, unless they really have already decided and push out pres release straight after the hearing.

Sandwiches?! How horribly common. I was expecting 5pm-10pm, where the middle 4 hours are taken up by a rather good dinner.

Puja

Sandwiches and refreshments if truth be told

[rowan]

According to this >> https://rugger.info/news/20031

NO decision has been reached

Nevertheless, RUS expects that it will be done by Monday

@

Some details: both ROM and SPN claimed their innocence

SPN blamed FRA, and ROM similarly TON for not informing at FULL scale

ROM pleaded that expulsion would destroy rugby domestically

Nevertheless, neither could prove that the Regulations has not been infringed


https://rugger.info/news/20031

[Digby]

I happen to think it would make sense even if excluding Spain and Romania to fund them as though they'd qualified for the RWC. Quite frankly we could easily find that money by shaving a fraction off what each of the tier 1 nations gouge from the RWC monies.

I don't object to them facing a receiving a sanction, but World Rugby do know they're far from alone in some dubious practices, and they know they're taking no action against certain other culprits. I don't want to name names, but there's a county which rhymes with France that could very easily be in the doghouse right now, only unlike Romania and Spain they have the luxury to auto-qualify for the RWC and the 6N and even if fined like Spain and Romania couldn't face being excluded from the RWC

[rowan]

I don't want to name names, but there's a county which rhymes with France that could very easily be in the doghouse right now

New Zealance??

[Sandydragon]

I happen to think it would make sense even if excluding Spain and Romania to fund them as though they'd qualified for the RWC. Quite frankly we could easily find that money by shaving a fraction off what each of the tier 1 nations gouge from the RWC monies.

I don't object to them facing a receiving a sanction, but World Rugby do know they're far from alone in some dubious practices, and they know they're taking no action against certain other culprits. I don't want to name names, but there's a county which rhymes with France that could very easily be in the doghouse right now, only unlike Romania and Spain they have the luxury to auto-qualify for the RWC and the 6N and even if fined like Spain and Romania couldn't face being excluded from the RWC

It certainly demonstrates how much of an ass he current laws on nationality are.

[rowan]

No news today then...

Took them about 6 months to disqualify Tahiti after all, so we shouldn't be too surprised.

[Digby]

Have they announced no news today?

I'm told after the hearings the judges told WR they'd get back to them in 3 days or less, I'm presuming at this point they meant 3 business days. And maybe WR have the decision and are talking it through with affected parties before disclosing.

[Puja]

Have they announced no news today?

I'm told after the hearings the judges told WR they'd get back to them in 3 days or less, I'm presuming at this point they meant 3 business days. And maybe WR have the decision and are talking it through with affected parties before disclosing.

I thought you were our inside man?!

Puja