Eng - Wal...Match Thread

[WaspInWales]

I'd have Launchbury ahead of Youngs at 9.

[p/d]

I'd have Launchbury ahead of Youngs at 9.

I'd have him covering 9 and 12...............from the start

[Banquo]

Whither Launch now ?
He was seen as Eng. great white hope after the WC but EJ has found himself 2 talented athketic locks who will only get better.
He is not dynamic enough for a modern 8 i.m.o., and too big for a 7.
He's too good a player to be a long-term 16-23 crew-member.
Maybe he can get properly fit for the summer tour and really hold his hand up.

..or he will fight his way back in, or Itoje may be tried at 6. Either way, all three are good to go in many 23's going forward. He's a talented athletic lock who will get better!...he is also younger than Kruis.

[Puja]

Len, let's not have random personal abuse. There's enough wrong with everyone's rugby opinions to attack without having to post stuff like that.

Your friendly neighbourhood mod

[Beasties]

Anyone concerned about fitness levels?

Seemed to be an issue in the world cup. Has EJ had enough time with the squad to make a noticeable difference in this area?

Read an article last week (poss in the Telegraph?) which said that the Eng plan during the WC revolved around the players being much fitter than their opposition and being able to pull away in games in the last 20. It even went so far as saying most of the Eng players came off the pitch most times mystified how their superior fitness hadn't prevailed and many weren't even out of breath. There were some other odd things in that article but it was supposed to be based on secret findings within the camp. Mostly what I read in the article had me absolutely baffled as what happened in front of our eyes contradicted what the findings were behind closed doors.

[Mellsblue]

Anyone concerned about fitness levels?

Seemed to be an issue in the world cup. Has EJ had enough time with the squad to make a noticeable difference in this area?

Read an article last week (poss in the Telegraph?) which said that the Eng plan during the WC revolved around the players being much fitter than their opposition and being able to pull away in games in the last 20. It even went so far as saying most of the Eng players came off the pitch most times mystified how their superior fitness hadn't prevailed and many weren't even out of breath. There were some other odd things in that article but it was supposed to be based on secret findings within the camp. Mostly what I read in the article had me absolutely baffled as what happened in front of our eyes contradicted what the findings were behind closed doors.

I read the same. I think alot of the benchmarking for the pre-world cup camp was a bit arbitrary. B Rolipola's weight for example was, based on performances, too low. He's now put a bit back on and is carrying unbelievably well. Similarly, all the players fitness was at a peak yet the last 15mins against both Wales and Aus tell a different story.
I wonder how much the chap from British Cycling had to do with it and, due to this, how much was based on the wrong foundations.

[twitchy]

Billy just looked miserable during the world cup.

[Mr Mwenda]

England women got a triple crown as well. Good times. Fingers crossed for a double slam next week as well.

[Banquo]

Billy just looked miserable during the world cup.

? I actually thought he played well, think he was injured before he got injured as it were.

He only started one game, ve wales, got injured quite early, but still managed to play through for an hour- just checked the stats, carried for 82 yards, made nine tackles, none missed.

I think in all the sh*t and derision that followed, it was forgotten how well he played.

[Oakboy]

Billy just looked miserable during the world cup.

It is strange that a huge physical lump like him should be a confidence player but he is. I'm not a fan overall but I think he is an asset when praised and encouraged to be his natural self. Jones appears to have recognised that immediately, empathy with players being his biggest attribute.

[Banquo]

Billy just looked miserable during the world cup.

It is strange that a huge physical lump like him should be a confidence player but he is. I'm not a fan overall but I think he is an asset when praised and encouraged to be his natural self. Jones appears to have recognised that immediately, empathy with players being his biggest attribute.

Hmm....I think that's part of it...but I'd say his biggest attribute to date has been the eye for detail around tactics and game planning. First half v Wales was a revelation compared to most England sides for over 10 years; they had purpose ball in hand.

[twitchy]

I meant more that he hated being on the diet they had him on.

[Oakboy]

Billy just looked miserable during the world cup.

It is strange that a huge physical lump like him should be a confidence player but he is. I'm not a fan overall but I think he is an asset when praised and encouraged to be his natural self. Jones appears to have recognised that immediately, empathy with players being his biggest attribute.

Hmm....I think that's part of it...but I'd say his biggest attribute to date has been the eye for detail around tactics and game planning. First half v Wales was a revelation compared to most England sides for over 10 years; they had purpose ball in hand.

I certainly won't argue with that. I should have said, "One of his biggest. . ."

I would guess that the experienced players never doubt him. I imagine that several doubted Burt. The result is plain to see.

[Banquo]

It is strange that a huge physical lump like him should be a confidence player but he is. I'm not a fan overall but I think he is an asset when praised and encouraged to be his natural self. Jones appears to have recognised that immediately, empathy with players being his biggest attribute.

Hmm....I think that's part of it...but I'd say his biggest attribute to date has been the eye for detail around tactics and game planning. First half v Wales was a revelation compared to most England sides for over 10 years; they had purpose ball in hand.

I certainly won't argue with that. I should have said, "One of his biggest. . ."

I would guess that the experienced players never doubt him. I imagine that several doubted Burt. The result is plain to see.

So far, he seems to be doing what I've been droning on about in a head coach for ages; looking at technical improvements, and game strategies, and looking how to win the next game, whilst fixing bits and pieces incrementally.

Scrum still not right, defence must come under some scrutiny again- we miss too many tackles still, 9-10 axis not working well enough, we need another threat in midfield, and the back three are performing well as individuals (bar Nowell's tackling) but not as a unit; we still need to find another carrier in the pack, and ideally a 7 (he/we have got better and better in the tourney at a collective breakdown effort, but against the very best, we will need more there). On the upside, our kick chase is much better (though I still hate giving the ball away 'downtown' as it were), lineout very solid, defence looks to be on an upward swing generally (but see above), Itoje massive plus, Watson developing well, and in game strategy and tactics we have definitely moved forward. There are also players with genuine potential knocking on the door. So its a very good start- even though I would have been a bit bolder than Eddie to begin with, can't argue with where we have got, bar being picky over only 2 9's in the EPS.

I think the big issues in selection remain the same - and still need better quality; Eddie can't sort that overnight.

[Oakboy]

I wonder what EJ's thinking is now on the need for an attack coach.

[Banquo]

I wonder what EJ's thinking is now on the need for an attack coach.

didn't he want one, but accepted he couldn't get the right one- post borthwick-gate- in time for the 6N.

[Oakboy]

I wonder what EJ's thinking is now on the need for an attack coach.

didn't he want one, but accepted he couldn't get the right one- post borthwick-gate- in time for the 6N.

Yes, and he said he'd do it himself, meantime. That's what made me ask the question (one that I thought a decent journalist or two would have asked by now). For example, some of the problems you highlighted (scrum, perhaps?) might benefit from EJ's direct attention if an attack coach took over whatever he is doing now.

[Puja]

I wonder what EJ's thinking is now on the need for an attack coach.

didn't he want one, but accepted he couldn't get the right one- post borthwick-gate- in time for the 6N.

Yes, and he said he'd do it himself, meantime. That's what made me ask the question (one that I thought a decent journalist or two would have asked by now). For example, some of the problems you highlighted (scrum, perhaps?) might benefit from EJ's direct attention if an attack coach took over whatever he is doing now.

Wonder if we can prise Mapletoft away from Quins now that O'Shea's going? I rate him very highly as a coach, but I'd be happy with him, Hepher or Lee Blackett. This is, of course, assuming that Wayne Smith is still not available to England.

We are still missing a specialist scrum coach as well, as Ian Peel is only on loan from Sarries for the 6N.

Puja

[Banquo]

I wonder what EJ's thinking is now on the need for an attack coach.

didn't he want one, but accepted he couldn't get the right one- post borthwick-gate- in time for the 6N.

Yes, and he said he'd do it himself, meantime. That's what made me ask the question (one that I thought a decent journalist or two would have asked by now). For example, some of the problems you highlighted (scrum, perhaps?) might benefit from EJ's direct attention if an attack coach took over whatever he is doing now.

Yep- suspect he will review the coaching set up in the round post 6N.

[Digby]

8 week ban for Francis, so his few moments on the pitch will come at huge cost to Exeter. Rob Baxter must be rather cross with him, whereas Chris Ashton must be wondering how he's so lucky.

[Peat]

I'd like to add discipline to the list of work ons - we've now conceded more penalties than we did in the entirety of the last 6N, plus three yellow cards and a citing compared to one and none - but I wonder whether Jones will agree.

[Galfon]

re: Francis ban..
Seems right...very silly knowing that these games are micro-analysed by video & the officials want to be seen upholding standards.
A sudden movement by Cole & it could have been nasty.

[Banquo]

I'd like to add discipline to the list of work ons - we've now conceded more penalties than we did in the entirety of the last 6N, plus three yellow cards and a citing compared to one and none - but I wonder whether Jones will agree.

add? Its been in lots of posts since the start of the 6N

[Mellsblue]

re: Francis ban..
Seems right...very silly knowing that these games are micro-analysed by video & the officials want to be seen upholding standards.
A sudden movement by Cole & it could have been nasty.

Also, kudos to Cole for not overreacting or even reacting at all.

[Peat]

I'd like to add discipline to the list of work ons - we've now conceded more penalties than we did in the entirety of the last 6N, plus three yellow cards and a citing compared to one and none - but I wonder whether Jones will agree.

add? Its been in lots of posts since the start of the 6N

Well I couldn't see it in your list up there - disgraceful oversight - clearly going senile*


*well, one of us is.