RugbyRebels

Scrumhead wrote: I like Uren. I wouldn’t complain if he got called up but I don’t think he’s better than Robson or Spencer.

Uren is 4 years yonger though (Randell is 5 yrs younger), start them now and at the next world they will would be very experienced, at their peak and young enough to go to the next world cup. Same for Maunder and Mitchell as well.

Puja wrote:I will note that there's suppost to be high winds and plenty of rain in Scotland this weekend, so that may inform the 6:2 bench split.

Puja

Hope it doesn't get postponed. Looks like it could get nasty.

jimKRFC wrote:

Scrumhead wrote: I like Uren. I wouldn’t complain if he got called up but I don’t think he’s better than Robson or Spencer.

Uren is 4 years yonger though (Randell is 5 yrs younger), start them now and at the next world they will would be very experienced, at their peak and young enough to go to the next world cup. Same for Maunder and Mitchell as well.

There is a case for skipping a generation, but the guys you stick in need to be starting for their clubs.

Banquo wrote:

Stom wrote:

Banquo wrote: Totally agree on Lawes as I said beforehand, though can see the logic if it hadn't failed before.

On the other player front, the only one he hasn't looked at is Dombrandt iirc- and from what I hear, he has not been first choice all the time at Quins.

You mentioned chucking in the youngsters...who?

I don't know how much that has been form and how much has been management/specific training.

He's rough around the edges, but so was Billy. Just because we've got a risk averse coach, too, doesn't mean he's not ready...

On the kids... Mitchell, Maunder, Taylor, anyone, really. Uren would be an upgrade.

How many are starting for their clubs?

Does that matter? Genia was an Australia player before he played much super rugby, and I'm sure there are plenty of other cases.

Banquo wrote:

Stom wrote:That team is much more balanced, though, thank fuck. Would have liked to have seen Earl start, but can't quibble. Curry needs to step up.

Agreed, but the bench is stupid and Faz is lucky.

What do you think Curry needs to do to 'step up' , aside from actually controlling the ball at the base?

Well...nail, head?

twitchy wrote:

Puja wrote:I will note that there's suppost to be high winds and plenty of rain in Scotland this weekend, so that may inform the 6:2 bench split.

Puja

Hope it doesn't get postponed. Looks like it could get nasty.

It's a bit of a draught and light drizzle for thr Scottish, they won't postpone.

8. T. Curry

To paraphrase Oscar Wilde, to do this once looks unfortunate, to do it again looks like carelessness!

Banquo wrote:

jimKRFC wrote:

Scrumhead wrote: I like Uren. I wouldn’t complain if he got called up but I don’t think he’s better than Robson or Spencer.

Uren is 4 years yonger though (Randell is 5 yrs younger), start them now and at the next world they will would be very experienced, at their peak and young enough to go to the next world cup. Same for Maunder and Mitchell as well.

There is a case for skipping a generation, but the guys you stick in need to be starting for their clubs.

A bit like a No 8 needs to . . .

twitchy wrote:

Puja wrote:I will note that there's suppost to be high winds and plenty of rain in Scotland this weekend, so that may inform the 6:2 bench split.

Puja

Hope it doesn't get postponed. Looks like it could get nasty.

Hopefully the game will over before then

Banquo wrote: There is a case for skipping a generation, but the guys you stick in need to be starting for their clubs.

Uren has been a starting 9 for 3 seasons now, Randell since he arrived. Pretty much every game for the last two (& a half) seasons they've started.

Banquo wrote:

jimKRFC wrote:

Scrumhead wrote: I like Uren. I wouldn’t complain if he got called up but I don’t think he’s better than Robson or Spencer.

Uren is 4 years yonger though (Randell is 5 yrs younger), start them now and at the next world they will would be very experienced, at their peak and young enough to go to the next world cup. Same for Maunder and Mitchell as well.

There is a case for skipping a generation, but the guys you stick in need to be starting for their clubs.

Ordinarily i would agree.
But the situation at SH is now so bad there is an overwhelming requirement for something dramatic. Something simply has to happen. We simply cannot go on relying on an ever diminishing Youngs, who is actually getting worse, and a 32 year old journeyman.
If there is no obvious player in the wings, then we have to try and develope one or two. Admittedly that means taking a bit of leap but the time for just waiting for someone to come through, while the incumbents can play poorly and still be retained, is surely coming to an end.
Bringing in Mitchell as an apprentice is a step in the right direction but having someone in the squad who can play would be even better.
I've said before that i thought Spencer should have been given a proper opportunity this 6N's. I also think Randall is worth investing some time in, Taylor has some rough edges but does have good instincts, while Maunder has good basics but needs to play with a touch more adventure. Uren looks pretty accomplished to me and i liked the look of Wolstenholme at Wasps but his opportunities have been limited.
I dont mind who, but i mind seeing Youngs and Heinz inked into the squad when their performances simply do not justify it.

So. Hutchinson covering 10 and barely a number 8 in sight.

15. Stuart Hogg CAPTAIN (Exeter Chiefs) – 73 caps

14. Sean Maitland (Saracens) – 45 caps
13. Huw Jones (Glasgow Warriors) – 24 caps
12. Sam Johnson (Glasgow Warriors) – 10 caps
11. Blair Kinghorn (Edinburgh) – 18 caps

10. Adam Hastings (Glasgow Warriors) – 17 caps
9. Ali Price (Glasgow Warriors) – 29 caps

1. Rory Sutherland (Edinburgh) – 4 caps
2. Fraser Brown (Glasgow Warriors) – 47 caps
3. Zander Fagerson (Glasgow Warriors) – 26 caps
4. Scott Cummings (Glasgow Warriors) – 9 caps
5. Jonny Gray (Glasgow Warriors) – 56 caps
6. Jamie Ritchie (Edinburgh) – 15 caps
7. Hamish Watson (Edinburgh) – 29 caps
8. Magnus Bradbury (Edinburgh) – 11 caps

Substitutes:
16. Stuart McInally (Edinburgh) – 34 caps
17. Allan Dell (London Irish) – 29 caps
18. Simon Berghan (Edinburgh) – 24 caps
19. Ben Toolis (Edinburgh) – 23 caps
20. Nick Haining (Edinburgh) – 1 cap
21. George Horne (Glasgow Warriors) – 11 caps
22. Rory Hutchinson (Northampton Saints) – 4 caps
23. Chris Harris (Gloucester) – 15 caps

Stom wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Stom wrote:
I don't know how much that has been form and how much has been management/specific training.

He's rough around the edges, but so was Billy. Just because we've got a risk averse coach, too, doesn't mean he's not ready...

On the kids... Mitchell, Maunder, Taylor, anyone, really. Uren would be an upgrade.

How many are starting for their clubs?

Does that matter? Genia was an Australia player before he played much super rugby, and I'm sure there are plenty of other cases.

They could do with regular rugby and be exposed to the pressures of starting. So yes it does matter. Lets see those plenty of other examples

Stom wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Stom wrote:That team is much more balanced, though, thank fuck. Would have liked to have seen Earl start, but can't quibble. Curry needs to step up.

Agreed, but the bench is stupid and Faz is lucky.

What do you think Curry needs to do to 'step up' , aside from actually controlling the ball at the base?

Well...nail, head?

Cool, I thought you were suggesting he needed to do other than the obvious

Oakboy wrote:

Banquo wrote:

jimKRFC wrote:
Uren is 4 years yonger though (Randell is 5 yrs younger), start them now and at the next world they will would be very experienced, at their peak and young enough to go to the next world cup. Same for Maunder and Mitchell as well.

There is a case for skipping a generation, but the guys you stick in need to be starting for their clubs.

A bit like a No 8 needs to . . .

same but different. At least Curry is a first choice player and has played a lot of test rugby. Chucking a green 9 in has to be carefully thought through.

jimKRFC wrote:

Banquo wrote: There is a case for skipping a generation, but the guys you stick in need to be starting for their clubs.

Uren has been a starting 9 for 3 seasons now, Randell since he arrived. Pretty much every game for the last two (& a half) seasons they've started.

alternating you mean? And actually at 23 and 22 not sure they are quite in the youngster category/skip a generation. In other words, quite well established 9's, likely not deemed good enough?

fivepointer wrote:

Banquo wrote:

jimKRFC wrote:
Uren is 4 years yonger though (Randell is 5 yrs younger), start them now and at the next world they will would be very experienced, at their peak and young enough to go to the next world cup. Same for Maunder and Mitchell as well.

There is a case for skipping a generation, but the guys you stick in need to be starting for their clubs.

Ordinarily i would agree.
But the situation at SH is now so bad there is an overwhelming requirement for something dramatic. Something simply has to happen. We simply cannot go on relying on an ever diminishing Youngs, who is actually getting worse, and a 32 year old journeyman.
If there is no obvious player in the wings, then we have to try and develope one or two. Admittedly that means taking a bit of leap but the time for just waiting for someone to come through, while the incumbents can play poorly and still be retained, is surely coming to an end.
Bringing in Mitchell as an apprentice is a step in the right direction but having someone in the squad who can play would be even better.
I've said before that i thought Spencer should have been given a proper opportunity this 6N's. I also think Randall is worth investing some time in, Taylor has some rough edges but does have good instincts, while Maunder has good basics but needs to play with a touch more adventure. Uren looks pretty accomplished to me and i liked the look of Wolstenholme at Wasps but his opportunities have been limited.
I dont mind who, but i mind seeing Youngs and Heinz inked into the squad when their performances simply do not justify it.

I agree, esp on the Spencer (or Robson) point; however its a rare player who can step effectively straight into intl rugby at 9 with little 1st class exposure, and we've also seen the gulf tween AP and test rugby. Youngs and Heinz are just rank average as a duo, so I agree chnage is needed, hence stating skip a generation if Robson and Spencer arent to be tried. I was just hoping I wasn't missing anything obvious. It would take an exceptional talent to jump in though. I suppose now is the time, but I think the best way and time to introduce tyros is in a winning and stable team; chicken meet egg.

in annoying news, Tompkins has played his way into starting for Wales.

Banquo wrote:in annoying news, Tompkins has played his way into starting for Wales.

Yep. Apparently looks strong in defence and attack. Even if he goes by the name Neil!!!

p/d wrote:

Banquo wrote:in annoying news, Tompkins has played his way into starting for Wales.

Yep. Apparently looks strong in defence and attack. Even if he goes by the name Neil!!!

He's one who is comfortable both at inside and outside, as he has a good all round skill set and is robust enough for a running 12.

Banquo wrote:

Oakboy wrote:

Banquo wrote: There is a case for skipping a generation, but the guys you stick in need to be starting for their clubs.

A bit like a No 8 needs to . . .

same but different. At least Curry is a first choice player and has played a lot of test rugby. Chucking a green 9 in has to be carefully thought through.

It's strange how these things work out. In terms of guessing, say 6 months back, who might replace Billy, where might Curry have been in the list? Certainly behind Kvesic, Hughes, Simmonds, Dombrandt, Wilson and Shields. In terms of a gamble it must be right up there so anything else in any position might be 'fair game'.

Banquo wrote: alternating you mean? And actually at 23 and 22 not sure they are quite in the youngster category/skip a generation. In other words, quite well established 9's, likely not deemed good enough?

Depends what you think a generation is I suppose, in rugby I think of it as a RWC cycle.

It could be they're not upto international rugby, but we don't know they've no chance.

EJ could go till 2021, at which point we're 2 years from a world cup and have only 9 that's under 30 and played any international rugby.

Suppose you add Calum Brayley to the young 9s we lost pile as well.

p/d wrote:

twitchy wrote:

Puja wrote:I will note that there's suppost to be high winds and plenty of rain in Scotland this weekend, so that may inform the 6:2 bench split.

Puja

Hope it doesn't get postponed. Looks like it could get nasty.

Hopefully the game will over before then

It should be, kick off is 4.45pm Saturday evening

jimKRFC wrote:

Banquo wrote: alternating you mean? And actually at 23 and 22 not sure they are quite in the youngster category/skip a generation. In other words, quite well established 9's, likely not deemed good enough?

Depends what you think a generation is I suppose, in rugby I think of it as a RWC cycle.

It could be they're not upto international rugby, but we don't know they've no chance.

EJ could go till 2021, at which point we're 2 years from a world cup and have only 9 that's under 30 and played any international rugby.

Suppose you add Calum Brayley to the young 9s we lost pile as well.

My point was really that they aren't unknown quantities nor that young.

Oakboy wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Oakboy wrote:
A bit like a No 8 needs to . . .

same but different. At least Curry is a first choice player and has played a lot of test rugby. Chucking a green 9 in has to be carefully thought through.

It's strange how these things work out. In terms of guessing, say 6 months back, who might replace Billy, where might Curry have been in the list? Certainly behind Kvesic, Hughes, Simmonds, Dombrandt, Wilson and Shields. In terms of a gamble it must be right up there so anything else in any position might be 'fair game'.

not really to the scale of lobbing someone brand new to intl rugby without much 1st class experience. It is an odd one with Curry though, less gamble, more eccentric.