Eng v. Ire - Match thread

[Spiffy]

Yeah, good to see some improvement. Ireland aren't a bad side so a decent day at the office, rackon.

Ireland were actually quite bad today. Shambolic lineout and a pair of half backs well short of international standard, and few attacking ideas. England really should have whitewashed them. Thank gawd for Jonny May.

[jngf]

Pundits saying our back row made 74 tackles, missing 0.

Fat, small, slow, lazy and out of position but 74 tackles is good.

Well I saw Underhill miss two at least so I’m not totally convinced by whoever’s coming up with these counts...

[Mr Mwenda]

I think you overstate things a bit, spiff. Very oleased a 6/10 performance from England felt quite comfy.

[Oakboy]

Cant fault our defensive effort.
Well done to May on his tries.
And that was enough to win despite losing line outs, giving away a stream of penalties, losing the 2nd half and displaying virtually nothing in attack in the second period.
We establish dominance and then coast along while out opponents catch up - see Wales and Ireland at home in the 6N's.
Its just a bit....unsatisfying.
Another absolutely shit trend is giving Tom Dunn less than 2 minutes at the end of a game.

This. How you lose a half against that Irish team is worrying. I don't think we can improve till we develop a way of valuing the ball for 80 minutes. Relying on giving the opposition loads of opportunity to cough up the ball in worse positions than we do deliberately by kicking it away constantly can only hurt us long-term.

I thought the forwards were magnificent. The backs were mainly impotent because of the game plan and the halfbacks. Same old!

[Raggs]

I don't worry too much about losing 2nd halves if you're still 2 scores ahead at the end and it was exactly a big scoring half.

[Oakboy]

I don't worry too much about losing 2nd halves if you're still 2 scores ahead at the end and it was exactly a big scoring half.

Fair enough if you just see this game as a winning result. Jones probably does - unfortunately.

[Raggs]

I don't worry too much about losing 2nd halves if you're still 2 scores ahead at the end and it was exactly a big scoring half.

Fair enough if you just see this game as a winning result. Jones probably does - unfortunately.

We absolutely dominated Ireland, and limited them to a consolation score when the game was already lost. That's never a bad result in my mind.

[Banquo]

I don't worry too much about losing 2nd halves if you're still 2 scores ahead at the end and it was exactly a big scoring half.

Fair enough if you just see this game as a winning result. Jones probably does - unfortunately.

We absolutely dominated Ireland, and limited them to a consolation score when the game was already lost. That's never a bad result in my mind.

I just hope it’s a platform to build on, rather than a ceiling. I’m sure that’s the case- there are a lot of easy things to improve.

Caveat to absolutely dominated- we did at the tackle line, but cede that possession and territory to better sides, and you’d probably be in more bother.

[fivepointer]

The possession and territory stats are grim. Just over 30%. I cannot recall us getting into the Irish 22 in the 2nd half.

Much to applaud about our performance and the pack can all be justifiably satisfied, but for me there was little to get excited about. Can we just try and play a little bit more next week.

And Tom Dunn only got 2 sodding minutes!!

[Banquo]

The possession and territory stats are grim. Just over 30%. I cannot recall us getting into the Irish 22 in the 2nd half.

Much to applaud about our performance and the pack can all be justifiably satisfied, but for me there was little to get excited about. Can we just try and play a little bit more next week.

And Tom Dunn only got 2 sodding minutes!!

We ceded a lot of terrority and possession with bad choices and penalties. The outside backs were not used often- but their interventions had a high conversion rate

[Danno]

The possession and territory stats are grim. Just over 30%. I cannot recall us getting into the Irish 22 in the 2nd half.

Much to applaud about our performance and the pack can all be justifiably satisfied, but for me there was little to get excited about. Can we just try and play a little bit more next week.

And Tom Dunn only got 2 sodding minutes!!

30 seconds

[WaspInWales]

Cant fault our defensive effort.
Well done to May on his tries.
And that was enough to win despite losing line outs, giving away a stream of penalties, losing the 2nd half and displaying virtually nothing in attack in the second period.
We establish dominance and then coast along while out opponents catch up - see Wales and Ireland at home in the 6N's.
Its just a bit....unsatisfying.
Another absolutely shit trend is giving Tom Dunn less than 2 minutes at the end of a game.

Summed it up perfectly 5p.

The defense was superb at times tbh, but just so very little in attack.

Fed up of the kicks when the basics of drawing the man and passing when we have an overlap are more likely to create try scoring chances. The crossfield kick for May's first was well judged tbf, but it's still a 50/50 gamble. Great take by May too and his second was sensational. I thought he screwed it up with the kick but his pace was electric. Deft second kick, ball bounced up nicely too but he earned that!

[Mikey Brown]

Yep, May sure did make it hard for himself but what a finish in the end. The kick for the first was fine but as you say a 50/50 which only panned out because of May’s excellence.

I thought Ireland looked really, really crap, yet two isolated bits of class from May is all that separated us. Great defence/disruption and all but it’s hard not to feel if you took out a handful of Ireland’s unforced errors that game would have been in the balance.

Maybe we would have pulled some secret moves out of the hat if that were the case, who knows, but it’s hard to picture.

[Cameo]

England physicality is awesome and makes it so hard for other teams to get into their rhythm. I sometimes feel like Jones is trying to make some kind of point with his tactics though. Now his point is that kicking and physicality wins games so he tells them to kick every single time. It's working but it's frustrating with some of the talent you have.

I think he's past it but I think Ireland really missed Sexton today. Byrne just dropped deeper and deeper against the aggressive defence. Gibson-Park and Sexton were looking good last week.

Overally England comfortable winners but if Ireland take an earlier chance or win their lineouts then it could have been a lot tighter. I think that's been the way with England for a bit tbh. Their defence looks impenetrable (and gets them moving forward too) but, if you cling on in their, the intensity fades just a tiny bit and half chances open up.

[loudnconfident]

Wrt to attack - or lack of if - did anyone else catch Eddie's post match interview? Usual stuff about "a building process for 2023 RWC" and "need to keep winning while building", but then stated that they will "focus on attack after the 2021 Lions".

It's a plan, at any rate.

[twitchy]

My only criticism was that we were notably lagging at around 55 mins onward and letting ire get on top of us. I would have emptied the bench. I felt eddie left it late. The lads coming on could have had a much bigger impact.

[Beasties]

My only criticism was that we were notably lagging at around 55 mins onward and letting ire get on top of us. I would have emptied the bench. I felt eddie left it late. The lads coming on could have had a much bigger impact.

Our defence was awesome but I actually felt that the subs caused the hiccup in part. No reason for it but the modest change in personnel seemed to coincide with the slackening off of the vice-like grip we'd had til that point.

[Banquo]

Have to say keeping up the intensity with no crowd must be quite a mental challenge.

[Beasties]

Wrt to attack - or lack of if - did anyone else catch Eddie's post match interview? Usual stuff about "a building process for 2023 RWC" and "need to keep winning while building", but then stated that they will "focus on attack after the 2021 Lions".

It's a plan, at any rate.

So basically the new attack coach is furloughed straight away then? At least he's got an end date.

[Oakboy]

I see Sinckler managed 20 tackles. That is some statistic for a TH, especially in 68 minutes.

[Scrumhead]

Yep, May sure did make it hard for himself but what a finish in the end. The kick for the first was fine but as you say a 50/50 which only panned out because of May’s excellence.

I thought Ireland looked really, really crap, yet two isolated bits of class from May is all that separated us. Great defence/disruption and all but it’s hard not to feel if you took out a handful of Ireland’s unforced errors that game would have been in the balance.

Maybe we would have pulled some secret moves out of the hat if that were the case, who knows, but it’s hard to picture.

Look, I was underwhelmed but that is a massive and undeserved compliment to Ireland. May’s tries might have been all that separated us on the scoreboard, but Ireland were not in the game at all barring a consolation try.

IMO, we really only played in the first half and when we should have had our foot on the throat, we eased off. You could argue keeping up the same level of intensity for 80mins isn’t possible, but we’ve done it before and should be more ruthless in killing teams off.

Farrell at 10 is like trying to drive with the handbrake on. I’m really hoping Ford starts against Wales, even if that does mean Farrell moving to 12.

[fivepointer]

May's 2nd try was quite something but the first relied on the Irish FB making a dreadful hash of positioning and timing of his jump.
After the 2nd try England didnt create a single try scoring opportunity. Not one. We managed 2 penalties in the second half and rarely ventured into Irish territory.
Overall we lost out on possession 32/68 and territory 28/72
Yes we defended well - a 96% tackle success stat is very impressive - and were always in control but better sides might not be content to provide a steady flow of one out runners and with HB's who might want to probe our back 3 defence with the odd kick.

[16th man]

Apparently we didn't force any Irish player into double figures in the tackle count.

[p/d]

Seen our pack dominate Georgia 2nd’s and our defence dominate Ireland. Let’s hope we get to join the dots and see out attack brought to the party next week to dominate Georgia’s 1st

[p/d]

Thought Earl did really well when he came on (humble pie eaten) and Curry makes me dance a jig every time he plays.

Credit to Billy for a bloody powerhouse performance