RugbyRebels

We won because Wales screwed up a line out on their 5m line.

We created nothing. No line breaks, no openings, no concerted pressure.

We were largely second rate.

Puja wrote:It was notable how our performance fell apart in the second half and our back row looked completely unbalanced after Curry went off and Simmonds went to openside. That's basically the takeaway from that match, for me.

Puja

Maybe Curry and Simmonds is a better balance than Curry and Lawes? I agree Simmonds isn’t first and foremost a fetcher (and Lawes certainly isn’t either tbh) but he’s a strike runner and England need to get the ball into his hands more imo. I’d go further and say Simmonds and Curry together could be something special as a flanker partnership but you need each to play to their respective strengths which to me seem complementary. I’ve been really impressed with Dombrandt’s fetching work too.

fivepointer wrote:We won because Wales screwed up a line out on their 5m line.

We created nothing. No line breaks, no openings, no concerted pressure.

We were largely second rate.

This!!!!!!

Our problems start in the front row. Genge and Sinckler need to find form very quickly or get replaced. Against the Welsh, champions of the scrum niggle, not starting with Marler is plain stupid, IMO.

Blandy wrote:

Puja wrote:It was notable how our performance fell apart in the second half and our back row looked completely unbalanced after Curry went off and Simmonds went to openside. That's basically the takeaway from that match, for me.

Puja

I missed him going off, and was surprised when I noticed Simmonds and Dombrandt on at the same time. What happened to Curry?

Failed HIA I believe

fivepointer wrote:We won because Wales screwed up a line out on their 5m line.

We created nothing. No line breaks, no openings, no concerted pressure.

We were largely second rate.

However England also won because Wales conceded penalties every time England had possession and pace. Sensibly England took the points. It was notable that after the Randall led speedy first ten minutes Wales realised they would get away with lying all over the English side of the ruck. England were naive not to adapt but it was accruing points....

Decided to watch Youngs very closely when he subbed on. After 115 caps he still throws a lot of passes at head height.
Dombrandt is big and athletic, and had a pretty good game - so how does he still look like the chubby schoolboy who does not want to turn out on games day.

I thought Randall pushed the pace really well, and England looked solid for a lot of that game, defence was driving Wales back, attack was making yards.

Definitely missed Curry significantly, Simmonds doesn't hit in defence in the same way, and I feel wants to run the same lines as Dombrandt.

Steward was immense in the aerial battle.

Genge was hot and cold for me. Ewels was at least noticeable and not in a negative way. Barely noticed Daly, but when I did it was often positive. Thought Malins got through a lot of work and most of it positive, Nowell offered another ruck option in the backs I guess, but don't feel like he did that much (he was obviously busy, but just not that effective?).

Thought overall it was a solid enough performance, if quite messy. We controlled most of the game and should have won more comfortably.

Forward pack is largely doing its job and putting us in positions to really dominate. Today and Murrayfield really should have been quite comfortable wins off the back of that forward platform. Halfbacks played well individually.

First up tackling was not good enough, just as it wasn’t against the Scots. Attacking structure and cohesion is off, but for me the biggest issue is the lack of individual penetration in the outside backs. We’ve packed our three quarters with decent, solid rugby players- some of whom might even be very good in the right combination- but athletically we may well rank bottom out of all 6 teams right now.

3 tries to 1.

We were poor. Wales were poor. Not a great advert and definitely two sides trying to find their identity.

This close to a WC has more to do with off the pitch than on It

Is there one single unit playing up to scratch? If this was the first match after a twelve month covid lay-off, maybe you'd feel a bit forgiving. In a 3rd match of the 6N after the AIs for preparation, though????

Oi Smith - enough of the hitch kick/goose step/bunny jump/vertical leap etc..

You don't want to look like Quade Cooper, do you?

Oakboy wrote:Is there one single unit playing up to scratch? If this was the first match after a twelve month covid lay-off, maybe you'd feel a bit forgiving. In a 3rd match of the 6N after the AIs for preparation, though????

Personally I think the pack as a whole are performing to a good standard. Certainly the starting pack has had the better of their opponents as a whole in the first 3 games. If we had more firepower in our back line we’d be sitting here with 3 pretty comfortable wins.

I’ve never regretted spending £95 so much. Honestly would rather have sat with my mates in the pub in Teddington than go to the faff of fighting my way in and out of HQ to watch that pile of sh@t. Wales at least had a go at playing, and tbh I was nearly- but obviously not- wanting them to win.

I can’t believe Timbo- whose views I respect- is ok with that effort. The scrum was a joke til Sinckler went- he lost the plot- the lineout shoddy, the backrow all over the shop when Curry went: Randall and Hopkirk/Youngs mediocre, Smith flash but imo poor options and very much doing his own thing, midfield defence either rubbish or very good, Malins panicky and inconsistent, Nowell was ok whilst missing tackles, and Steward just kinda solid. But no urgency, cohesion, direction or tbh competence ball in hand. A slow shambles, against a game but heavily denuded Wales.

Had a beer, so may revisit- but so underwhelmed.

Really? Compared to Wales, yes. France and Ireland are light years ahead. I don’t think Sinkler is a team player, we haven’t got anywhere near replacing Kruis and the back row looks pot luck when we lose Curry and Underhill.
Oops, this is a reply to Timbo not Banquo’s beverage fuelled - well written - post

I have one very important question. Is it that the French won’t spend the euros on a suit for Edwards or has he got the attire ‘trackie’ built into his contract

p/d wrote:Really? Compared to Wales, yes. France and Ireland are light years ahead. I don’t think Sinkler is a team player, we haven’t got anywhere near replacing Kruis and the back row looks pot luck when we lose Curry and Underhill.
Oops, this is a reply to Timbo not Banquo’s beverage fuelled - well written - post

In fairness to Timbo, he did say our backs are sh&t. But so are the pack, in the sense that they are so much less that the sum of their parts, and some individuals are plain letting us and themselves down. Itoje was about par for him, and I think he was crocked too; all the rest were just so slow to react most of the time, it may be Eddie has been beasting them. The passage of play leading to Wales last try was an object lesson in everything that’s wrong with us without the ball. Mind, most of the preceding 79 mins were object lessons in paucity of play with the ball.

Spiffy wrote:Decided to watch Youngs very closely when he subbed on. After 115 caps he still throws a lot of passes at head height.
Dombrandt is big and athletic, and had a pretty good game - so how does he still look like the chubby schoolboy who does not want to turn out on games day.

Have to say watching live, Randall’s passing not much better, but at least getting it away quicker, thus allowing more goose step time.

Banquo wrote:

p/d wrote:Really? Compared to Wales, yes. France and Ireland are light years ahead. I don’t think Sinkler is a team player, we haven’t got anywhere near replacing Kruis and the back row looks pot luck when we lose Curry and Underhill.
Oops, this is a reply to Timbo not Banquo’s beverage fuelled - well written - post

In fairness to Timbo, he did say our backs are sh&t. But so are the pack, in the sense that they are so much less that the sum of their parts, and some individuals are plain letting us and themselves down. Itoje was about par for him, and I think he was crocked too; all the rest were just so slow to react most of the time, it may be Eddie has been beasting them. The passage of play leading to Wales last try was an object lesson in everything that’s wrong with us without the ball. Mind, most of the preceding 79 mins were object lessons in paucity of play with the ball.

Agree.

The lose of Curry was huge. Stupidly I thought Marchant would be straight on to cover the defence shift. God, how wrong I was.

p/d wrote:

Banquo wrote:

p/d wrote:Really? Compared to Wales, yes. France and Ireland are light years ahead. I don’t think Sinkler is a team player, we haven’t got anywhere near replacing Kruis and the back row looks pot luck when we lose Curry and Underhill.
Oops, this is a reply to Timbo not Banquo’s beverage fuelled - well written - post

In fairness to Timbo, he did say our backs are sh&t. But so are the pack, in the sense that they are so much less that the sum of their parts, and some individuals are plain letting us and themselves down. Itoje was about par for him, and I think he was crocked too; all the rest were just so slow to react most of the time, it may be Eddie has been beasting them. The passage of play leading to Wales last try was an object lesson in everything that’s wrong with us without the ball. Mind, most of the preceding 79 mins were object lessons in paucity of play with the ball.

Agree.

The lose of Curry was huge. Stupidly I thought Marchant would be straight on to cover the defence shift. God, how wrong I was.

Yes, pretty clear that Curry is key both as player and leader in defence. Smith was remorselessly targeted and nothing was done post Curry.

We just don’t have the ability to react to something changing- there were some clearly telegraphed things that Wales did that we just didn’t seem to pick up- an example was a short restart from Biggar, that was blown back by the ref…. He proceeded to do exactly the same again and we looked totally surprised. Weird and frustrating

Indeed. Just baffling. Time and time again we just stick to a game plan hoping it will work, oblivious to the fact the oppo have adapted theirs.

p/d wrote:Indeed. Just baffling. Time and time again we just stick to a game plan hoping it will work, oblivious to the fact the oppo have adapted theirs.

It’s not even to that level, it’s just slow to react to events in games.

I’ll rewatch at some point and possibly change my mind on some aspects. Right now I maintain we were the better team for 60 minutes, won the physical and gain line battle pretty comprehensively and despite being ‘messy’ should have been even further ahead. Other than the 2 minutes at the end and the short period of time between Tompkins try and Smith making it 20-12 I wasn’t even remotely concerned.

That’s not to say that we’re not dysfunctional at the moment and the back line in particular needs a rethink. The Ireland game will be a good test. Obviously need to see the teams, but I’m actually reasonably confident. For all their cohesion I still think we have more power in our forward pack.

Finally managed to watch it. Obviously pleased we won. BUT boy there was some frustrating parts. Especially the abject mishandling of the yellow card period. Really? Take a scrum and let them work down the clock. Brainless. Especially when previous scrum had conceded penalty. It all seemed toothless in the backs too.
On the positives I thought Dombrandt looked good.
Itoje stepped up in some key moments.
Smith looks like he will be good as he matures.
Steward is still very solid at the back.
That said I really thought we were going to lose when the clock went red. In some ways thought we deserved to. So badly handled key moments.
Young’s coming on brought some sensible play. Actually thought he was good.
Missed Curry badly when he went off.

Timbo wrote:I’ll rewatch at some point and possibly change my mind on some aspects. Right now I maintain we were the better team for 60 minutes, won the physical and gain line battle pretty comprehensively and despite being ‘messy’ should have been even further ahead. Other than the 2 minutes at the end and the short period of time between Tompkins try and Smith making it 20-12 I wasn’t even remotely concerned.

That’s not to say that we’re not dysfunctional at the moment and the back line in particular needs a rethink. The Ireland game will be a good test. Obviously need to see the teams, but I’m actually reasonably confident.For all their cohesion I still think we have more power in our forward pack.

Power is one thing, knowing how to use it is another (and I'm not convinced England has more power up front anyway.) I think the England props, with all their swagger, are not as good as many fans believe, a bit short on the grunt work, and behind their Irish counterparts in all-round play. And I believe the Ireland back row has better balance. England of course will have the advantage of a home game.
Agree about the England backs. Youngs is always going to slow it up. Slade has not done much for ages and is living on reputation. Marchant is a sound player but maybe not international quality. Daly is a very good wing but not a great 13. Nowell was a tad exposed today for real gas and in defence. Malins is quite good for a makeshift wing, but still not a real wing. All in all, the England three quarters are quite blunt in attack.
I am not saying Ireland will beat England at Twickers, but I feel we are in with a real chance, especially since a poor Wales team can come that close.

Well hey, at least we got to see Alex Cuthbert in full flight. Didn’t know he still had it in him.