England training squad

[Banquo]

I think Barbeary at 12, even for school, was only ever to continue to develop his skillset rather than as a move to the backs.

I'm hoping Hartley is at 15 due to wasps lack of fit 15s and putting the next best option there.

He started running at 15 in preseason, so before some of the injuries. I think it's recognition that Wasps are weak there, but also combined with the fact Wasps have also signed a budget-version of Esterhuizen to play 12.

I also have to take slight umbrage at Scrumhead's characterisation of Flutey. In his spell at LI and then first spell at Wasps he was easily the outstanding 12 in the league. Didn't make him any less Maori and more English, but the quality was clear. When he came back from Brive, however....

Yep, pre injury, Flutey was handy.

[Puja]

I'm just waiting for someone to mention Steward at 12 again. With Arundell's emergence I can imagine crazier things than Eddie opting to do a Jamie Roberts with him, out of nowhere.

Only a matter of time. Some former international mooted it after he broke through initially but that quickly went away when it became obvious he just cleans up a lot of the stuff in the backfield that used to cause England problems.

He played 13 for Loughborough University and both 10 and 13 at school before converting to 15 in the Tigers academy. Moving one of the few backline players that is completely settled would be a pretty odd call so expect Eddie to trial it this Autumn if/when Manu picks up an injury.

Arundell to 12 seems the obvious move then?

Puja

[Banquo]

I'm just waiting for someone to mention Steward at 12 again. With Arundell's emergence I can imagine crazier things than Eddie opting to do a Jamie Roberts with him, out of nowhere.

Only a matter of time. Some former international mooted it after he broke through initially but that quickly went away when it became obvious he just cleans up a lot of the stuff in the backfield that used to cause England problems.

He played 13 for Loughborough University and both 10 and 13 at school before converting to 15 in the Tigers academy. Moving one of the few backline players that is completely settled would be a pretty odd call so expect Eddie to trial it this Autumn if/when Manu picks up an injury.

Arundell to 12 seems the obvious move then?

Puja

I thought me and Scrumhead had already agreed Northmore to 12 and Daly to 13?

[Margin_Walker]

I'm just waiting for someone to mention Steward at 12 again. With Arundell's emergence I can imagine crazier things than Eddie opting to do a Jamie Roberts with him, out of nowhere.

Only a matter of time. Some former international mooted it after he broke through initially but that quickly went away when it became obvious he just cleans up a lot of the stuff in the backfield that used to cause England problems.

He played 13 for Loughborough University and both 10 and 13 at school before converting to 15 in the Tigers academy. Moving one of the few backline players that is completely settled would be a pretty odd call so expect Eddie to trial it this Autumn if/when Manu picks up an injury.

Arundell to 12 seems the obvious move then?

Puja

You never know, it is Eddie after all. He played a bit at 13 at Harrow iirc.

Would be criminal not to have him the wide channels though if he is involved.

The lack of top quality English 12s over the years is comical. Everyone has their favourite prospect or potential convert, but there's never anyone truly banging down the door. You can see why Farrell keeps getting the gig.

[FKAS]

I'm just waiting for someone to mention Steward at 12 again. With Arundell's emergence I can imagine crazier things than Eddie opting to do a Jamie Roberts with him, out of nowhere.

Only a matter of time. Some former international mooted it after he broke through initially but that quickly went away when it became obvious he just cleans up a lot of the stuff in the backfield that used to cause England problems.

He played 13 for Loughborough University and both 10 and 13 at school before converting to 15 in the Tigers academy. Moving one of the few backline players that is completely settled would be a pretty odd call so expect Eddie to trial it this Autumn if/when Manu picks up an injury.

Arundell to 12 seems the obvious move then?

Puja

To be fair his footwork and ability to leg drive through contact would make it an entertaining experiment if nothing else.

[Mikey Brown]

I’ve always thought Marchant could be handy at 15 anyway.

[Mellsblue]

I’ve always thought Marchant could be handy at 15 anyway.

Or Northmore…

[FKAS]

The Rugby Rebels England AI team taking shape.

11. Freeman
12. Arundell
13. Steward
14. Northmore
15. Marchant

[Puja]

Furbank at 10, Ford at 9.

Puja

[FKAS]

Furbank at 10, Ford at 9.

Puja

Outstanding. I presume Barbeary will be in at hooker. With Underhill out we are robbed of the Cunderhillis backrow though.

[Peej]

Maybe, Quins selection policy, together with the thread's debate, just proves that Esterhuizen is 1. irreplaceable and 2. close to the ideal modern IC. That SA (apparently) have a better one is cause for concern in terms of assessing English development. 'Nothing much since Greenwood' is pretty condemnatory.

People in SA are tearing their hair out at Nienaber's selections, so I wouldn't read too much into that.

I think his sole aim is the World Cup and he's trying out loads of combos. Lot of talented SA backs. De Allende and Am are a very good combo, in their own way.

I don't think picking Frans Steyn can be classed as 'trying out loads of combos.' No question on Am, he's the best 13 in the world. But Nienaber's ignored a whole host of form, young players in favour of old workhorses who are, as in the case of Vermuelen, had their day and mostly knackered.

[FKAS]

People in SA are tearing their hair out at Nienaber's selections, so I wouldn't read too much into that.

I think his sole aim is the World Cup and he's trying out loads of combos. Lot of talented SA backs. De Allende and Am are a very good combo, in their own way.

I don't think picking Frans Steyn can be classed as 'trying out loads of combos.' No question on Am, he's the best 13 in the world. But Nienaber's ignored a whole host of form, young players in favour of old workhorses who are, as in the case of Vermuelen, had their day and mostly knackered.

He has also capped Roos and Louw at 6/8 this year. The transition away from the big man has started though should probably be advancing at a greater pace.

[Scrumhead]

I think Barbeary at 12, even for school, was only ever to continue to develop his skillset rather than as a move to the backs.

I'm hoping Hartley is at 15 due to wasps lack of fit 15s and putting the next best option there.

He started running at 15 in preseason, so before some of the injuries. I think it's recognition that Wasps are weak there, but also combined with the fact Wasps have also signed a budget-version of Esterhuizen to play 12.

I also have to take slight umbrage at Scrumhead's characterisation of Flutey. In his spell at LI and then first spell at Wasps he was easily the outstanding 12 in the league. Didn't make him any less Maori and more English, but the quality was clear. When he came back from Brive, however....

Yep, pre injury, Flutey was handy.

I was thinking of ‘imported’ when I named Flutey, but I can see how it read differently.

[Banquo]

People in SA are tearing their hair out at Nienaber's selections, so I wouldn't read too much into that.

I think his sole aim is the World Cup and he's trying out loads of combos. Lot of talented SA backs. De Allende and Am are a very good combo, in their own way.

I don't think picking Frans Steyn can be classed as 'trying out loads of combos.' No question on Am, he's the best 13 in the world. But Nienaber's ignored a whole host of form, young players in favour of old workhorses who are, as in the case of Vermuelen, had their day and mostly knackered.

well that's a fair point, but that's what he is doing generally and as above, Vermeulen has had alternatives selected.

[Banquo]

Furbank at 10, Ford at 9.

Puja

Outstanding. I presume Barbeary will be in at hooker. With Underhill out we are robbed of the Cunderhillis backrow though.

Barbeary might avoid more injury if he stuck to being a donkey.

[Dhorton]

I wouldn’t ever suggest moving Steward currently but Jodie Barrett did just have a pretty decent test at 12 for the All Blacks and I think they’ve got pretty similar skills sets. We have loads of good young back 3 so might be a way of getting them all in post World Cup.

[Peej]

Will Steward look good at 12 outside Farrell though?

[Mellsblue]

He might look quicker…

[FKAS]

Will Steward look good at 12 outside Farrell though?

Depends which Farrell. If it's the Farrell we've seen previously for England than probably not as he has tended just to invite his centres to crash the ball up with little deception or innovation. If it's the Farrell who's turned up for Saracens in the league this season then all bets are off, looks like he's finally taken the handbrake off his attacking play.

[Oakboy]

Will Steward look good at 12 outside Farrell though?

Depends which Farrell. If it's the Farrell we've seen previously for England than probably not as he has tended just to invite his centres to crash the ball up with little deception or innovation. If it's the Farrell who's turned up for Saracens in the league this season then all bets are off, looks like he's finally taken the handbrake off his attacking play.

Has he done it against a decent quality defence? I've only seen him once this season. Reportedly, several clubs' defences have been rather porous. I'd still pick him at 10 for England just to get him out of the 12 shirt.

[Banquo]

He might look quicker…

[Banquo]

Will Steward look good at 12 outside Farrell though?

Depends which Farrell. If it's the Farrell we've seen previously for England than probably not as he has tended just to invite his centres to crash the ball up with little deception or innovation. If it's the Farrell who's turned up for Saracens in the league this season then all bets are off, looks like he's finally taken the handbrake off his attacking play.

I think you are getting a bit excited about the 'new' Farrell.

[Mikey Brown]

If it's the Farrell who's turned up for Saracens in the league this season then all bets are off, looks like he's finally taken the handbrake off his attacking play.

Does he?

[FKAS]

Will Steward look good at 12 outside Farrell though?

Depends which Farrell. If it's the Farrell we've seen previously for England than probably not as he has tended just to invite his centres to crash the ball up with little deception or innovation. If it's the Farrell who's turned up for Saracens in the league this season then all bets are off, looks like he's finally taken the handbrake off his attacking play.

Has he done it against a decent quality defence? I've only seen him once this season. Reportedly, several clubs' defences have been rather porous. I'd still pick him at 10 for England just to get him out of the 12 shirt.

Admittedly it was a depleted Tigers midfield but Sarries ran rampant in a way that Saints and Chiefs failed to do. I was genuinely very impressed by the variation of his play and I'm normally more of an advocate for playing Farrell at 12 because otherwise the attack slows dramatically when he's at 10 (and Eddie will play him somewhere).

[fivepointer]

Tbf Farrell has played well for Saracens for a couple of seasons now. He does look considerably more inventive when playing for his club.