RugbyRebels

And the unavailables in order as well (cause I didn't notice Ludlam was out until I started doing the first list):

Jamie George
Jack Walker
Nic Dolly
Will Stuart
Trevor Davison
Ollie Chessum
Charlie Ewels
Nick Isiekwe
Courtney Lawes
Sam Underhill
Lewis Ludlam
Sam Jeffries
Alfie Barbeary
Harry Randall
George Ford
Tommy Freeman
Louis Lynagh
Rato Naulago

Also, is anyone else shocked that JWillis only has 4 caps? I mean, I know he was injured long-term on his debut, but it still feels bizarre that he's had that little time at international level.

Puja

Puja wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 3:56 pm Also, is anyone else shocked that JWillis only has 4 caps? I mean, I know he was injured long-term on his debut, but it still feels bizarre that he's had that little time at international level.

Puja

England's entire selection strategy may be heading for a crash. There are far too many potential WC players with too few caps at this stage in the cycle.

Puja wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 3:56 pm Also, is anyone else shocked that JWillis only has 4 caps? I mean, I know he was injured long-term on his debut, but it still feels bizarre that he's had that little time at international level.

Puja

He's been out for long periods twice just after being called up. Touch of the JSD's.

He was also ignored for a season and then called up for the summer, then got injured in the penultimate game of the season at Sarries.

fivepointer wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 3:04 pm as a Sean Robinson fan i'm very pleased he's been called up.
We have a quandary at 6 now that Lawes has been ruled out. Alex Coles to debut?

Now I'm a Sean Robinson fan as well and have been curious for a few seasons now as to why no bigger club has tried to pilfer him from Falcons. However, an uncapped 31 year old lock who just about gets away with covering 6 at Prem level is an odd selection this close to the world cup.

FKAS wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 6:18 pm

fivepointer wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 3:04 pm as a Sean Robinson fan i'm very pleased he's been called up.
We have a quandary at 6 now that Lawes has been ruled out. Alex Coles to debut?

Now I'm a Sean Robinson fan as well and have been curious for a few seasons now as to why no bigger club has tried to pilfer him from Falcons. However, an uncapped 31 year old lock who just about gets away with covering 6 at Prem level is an odd selection this close to the world cup.

Ah if only Jeff Rees was fit. Think Robinson does a bit more just about get away with it when he's played 6. I think his l/o work is a very attractive option with Lawes unfit. Its late in the day but i'm glad to see him in there, even if its unlikely he'll play.
I guess Martin was an option and Ted Hill would have been the obvious call up had he played a bit and Jones had the inclination to give him another look.

FKAS wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 6:18 pm

fivepointer wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 3:04 pm as a Sean Robinson fan i'm very pleased he's been called up.
We have a quandary at 6 now that Lawes has been ruled out. Alex Coles to debut?

Now I'm a Sean Robinson fan as well and have been curious for a few seasons now as to why no bigger club has tried to pilfer him from Falcons. However, an uncapped 31 year old lock who just about gets away with covering 6 at Prem level is an odd selection this close to the world cup.

We've got a massive hole at lock behind Itoje and Hill though and, with Chessum and Ewels out injured, I approve of Eddie spreading the net wide to see if there's someone else who can cope at this level. Rather give a try to both Robinson and Tizard than just pick one on future promise and find he can't yet hack it.

Puja

Yep. As promising as Tizard is, he isn’t a particularly good lineout jumper. With no Lawes at 6, it’s possible that Eddie will want both locks to be the primary jumpers (probably with Curry or Willis as the third option). That gives Ribbans, Robinson or Coles an advantage in the race to partner Itoje.

Puja wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 3:44 pm

rjjb wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 3:41 pm Naulago (who?) listed as injured, but Arundell not. I think someone somewhere has ballsed up the list.

Siva Naulago, the Fijian ex-league player at Bristol - fearsome try-scorer, but has spent most of the last year either injured or banned from high tackles (or both). Bizarre name to drop.

Good spot on Arundell. Maybe Eddie's dropped him as some kind of Eddie-like character-building-exercise?

Puja

Just checked the website and Arundell's name has been quietly added.

I hate to be the one to say it, but Itoje might end up at 6

Peej wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 7:30 pm I hate to be the one to say it, but Itoje might end up at 6

In gods name, why? We have only two competent locks and you think we should put one at 6 and play someone sub-Ewels at lock, so we can put one of TCurry or JWillis on the bench?!

Puja

Scrumhead wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 6:55 pm Yep. As promising as Tizard is, he isn’t a particularly good lineout jumper. With no Lawes at 6, it’s possible that Eddie will want both locks to be the primary jumpers (probably with Curry or Willis as the third option). That gives Ribbans, Robinson or Coles an advantage in the race to partner Itoje.

EJ talking a fair bit positively about Coles in the Telegraph Rugby podcast this week. Expect he'll be at least in the 23.

fivepointer wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 6:45 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 6:18 pm

fivepointer wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 3:04 pm as a Sean Robinson fan i'm very pleased he's been called up.
We have a quandary at 6 now that Lawes has been ruled out. Alex Coles to debut?

Now I'm a Sean Robinson fan as well and have been curious for a few seasons now as to why no bigger club has tried to pilfer him from Falcons. However, an uncapped 31 year old lock who just about gets away with covering 6 at Prem level is an odd selection this close to the world cup.

Ah if only Jeff Rees was fit. Think Robinson does a bit more just about get away with it when he's played 6. I think his l/o work is a very attractive option with Lawes unfit. Its late in the day but i'm glad to see him in there, even if its unlikely he'll play.
I guess Martin was an option and Ted Hill would have been the obvious call up had he played a bit and Jones had the inclination to give him another look.

Robinson is a much better lock than he is 6. He just isn't as mobile as Lawes. I agree his lineout work is very good though, can certainly see why Eddie would want some additional lineout support but if he liked Robinson that much then Robinson has been in a similar level of form for several years and bar one failed summer call up the other year he's been ignored.

Getting more game time into Hill or Martin would make more sense going forward but I guess his focus is solely next summer though it would be some breakthrough for Robinson to make the WC squad from uncapped at 31. I suppose Hill and Martin are also not going to start at lock either which is the area of issue.

Puja wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 7:38 pm

Peej wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 7:30 pm I hate to be the one to say it, but Itoje might end up at 6

In gods name, why? We have only two competent locks and you think we should put one at 6 and play someone sub-Ewels at lock, so we can put one of TCurry or JWillis on the bench?!

Puja

Of course I don't think we should, mate, you kmow me better than that. But this is Eddie we're talking about. He'd rather have a jumping 6 than not. Can you say with 100% certainty that it won't happen? Or like me do you have that creeping sense of doubt?

Peej wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 9:14 pm

Puja wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 7:38 pm

Peej wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 7:30 pm I hate to be the one to say it, but Itoje might end up at 6

In gods name, why? We have only two competent locks and you think we should put one at 6 and play someone sub-Ewels at lock, so we can put one of TCurry or JWillis on the bench?!

Puja

Of course I don't think we should, mate, you kmow me better than that. But this is Eddie we're talking about. He'd rather have a jumping 6 than not. Can you say with 100% certainty that it won't happen? Or like me do you have that creeping sense of doubt?

I was wondering what'd happened to you for a minute there!

I think it's more likely he'll shove Coles in there (whom I do like as a player, just not at the expense of playing Willis). I don't get the allure of a specialist jumping 6 - Curry and Willis are more than competent and, while the lineout might be slightly stronger with a third lock in there, the breakdown and ball retention is hugely improved by Cullis and there's more breakdowns than lineouts in a game.

Puja

I reckon we'd be much better with Cullis. Particularly against the Saffas and NZ

Peej wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 10:18 pm I reckon we'd be much better with Cullis. Particularly against the Saffas and NZ

Against NZ certainly, against the Boks we might be better off with more physicality at 6 and rotating the opensides early in the game with the remit they can go hell for leather and know they won't play more than 45 mins.

I know Willis is playing 7 most of the time now, and obviously a serious poacher, but I guess I don’t see him as a typical 7 and certainly not lacking physicality.

Coles looks fine as a 6 at club level, nothing that would have made me even consider we’d look at him there for England.

Willis and Curry as flankers is a good balanced combination. Which of them wears 6 or 7 on their shirt matters not one jot. The saddest point is that T Willis is not there to play at 8. I suppose Jones might pick Simmonds to go with them (ducks as the pigs fly by).

Coles has had a great season so far. I’m not sure he’s a test level 6 right now and I’d much rather see ‘Cullis’ at 6 and 7, but he has been among the better blindside flankers in the Premiership IMO, so it’s not a completely hare brained idea.

Like Chessum and JvP in Australia, I would back Coles, Tizard and Murley to slot straight in to test rugby given the opportunity.

Scrumhead wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 8:29 am Coles has had a great season so far. I’m not sure he’s a test level 6 right now and I’d much rather see ‘Cullis’ at 6 and 7, but he has been among the better blindside flankers in the Premiership IMO, so it’s not a completely hare brained idea.

Like Chessum and JvP in Australia, I would back Coles, Tizard and Murley to slot straight in to test rugby given the opportunity.

Coles has only been playing at 6 for about a season in total, and then irregularly- that said he's adapted very well, and has a fantastic engine and a fair turn of speed, and as you said, has been very good with some standout performances and some good tries in support play. But I wouldn't start him at 6 internationally as yet.

Scrumhead wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 8:29 am Coles has had a great season so far. I’m not sure he’s a test level 6 right now and I’d much rather see ‘Cullis’ at 6 and 7, but he has been among the better blindside flankers in the Premiership IMO, so it’s not a completely hare brained idea.

Like Chessum and JvP in Australia, I would back Coles, Tizard and Murley to slot straight in to test rugby given the opportunity.

I can see that actually. He looks like the kind of player who might just step up, although it's a bit of a risk to keep trying that. Worked with Rodd, Chessum, JvP, but at some point it's going to fail miserably.

Puja

It might, but in fairness to Eddie, he doesn’t usually put players in to the match day squads unless he thinks they’re genuinely ready, which is probably something to do with it usually working out well.

There have been quite a few called up to squads who haven’t yet played and I assume that’s because he hasn’t seen enough to convince him.

OTOH, he’s still picking Porter ahead of significantly better options and I don’t think it’s unfair to see that he didn’t look ready/up to it.

Scrumhead wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 10:12 am It might, but in fairness to Eddie, he doesn’t usually put players in to the match day squads unless he thinks they’re genuinely ready, which is probably something to do with it usually working out well.

There have been quite a few called up to squads who haven’t yet played and I assume that’s because he hasn’t seen enough to convince him.

OTOH, he’s still picking Porter ahead of significantly better options and I don’t think it’s unfair to see that he didn’t look ready/up to it.

...maybe he learned with Burrell and Harrison, to name but 2