Borthwick’s England 2.0

[Banquo]

On that note it’s interesting that Koch has been dropped for Nyakane for the final, where many viewers could reasonably have figured he was part of the dominant scrum that turned the entire game around.

with a 7:1 bench. Given Libbok has been entirely binned it may be a quota thing.

South Africa XV: Willemse; Arendse, Kriel, De Allende, Kolbe; Pollard, De Klerk; Kitshoff, Mbonambi, Malherbe, Etzebeth, Mostert, Kolisi (capt), Du Toit, Vermeulen.

Replacements: Fourie, Nche, Nyakane, Kleyn, Snyman, Smith, Wiese, Le Roux.

[Beasties]

On that note it’s interesting that Koch has been dropped for Nyakane for the final, where many viewers could reasonably have figured he was part of the dominant scrum that turned the entire game around.

I might be making it up but I’m sure I’d heard Nayakane was injured for the Eng game? He’d been mostly preferred to Koch up til then.

[jngf]

On that note it’s interesting that Koch has been dropped for Nyakane for the final, where many viewers could reasonably have figured he was part of the dominant scrum that turned the entire game around.

I might be making it up but I’m sure I’d heard Nayakane was injured for the Eng game? He’d been mostly preferred to Koch up til then.

I think it’s safe to say our front row finishers sadly Koched up a bit last match

[Banquo]

On that note it’s interesting that Koch has been dropped for Nyakane for the final, where many viewers could reasonably have figured he was part of the dominant scrum that turned the entire game around.

I might be making it up but I’m sure I’d heard Nayakane was injured for the Eng game? He’d been mostly preferred to Koch up til then.

I've also been told that Koch is/was struggling as well-knee.

[Epaminondas Pules]

Hard to argue with this:

https://x.com/vmsportie/status/17180187 ... IjUZPGY9HQ

[Oakboy]

Hard to argue with this:

https://x.com/vmsportie/status/17180187 ... IjUZPGY9HQ

The whole debate is how to get the best out of our players. SB's way is not it.

[Epaminondas Pules]

Time will tell, and he’s going get time, but it’s a long old way to go! The pack are at least a bit better in some aspects, and erm…….yeah.

[FKAS]

Hard to argue with this:

https://x.com/vmsportie/status/17180187 ... IjUZPGY9HQ

The whole debate is how to get the best out of our players. SB's way is not it.

Least tries conceded in the tournament going into the game last night. Reliable set piece, some young forwards coming through.

The stagnant attack is the only area of real issue. Changes coming in that area and fingers crossed that Farrell calls it a day to help further.

[Margin_Walker]

Absolutely no chance Farrell calls it a day. He'll be aiming for the next RWC

[FKAS]

Absolutely no chance Farrell calls it a day. He'll be aiming for the next RWC

That's a chilling thought

[p/d]

The forwards in general have been good. Martin, Chessa, Earl and Dan look nailed on. But behind that is abysmal. Massive shake up needed.

Three 10’s in the 23 and we can’t fashion a try scoring move. When Ford came on for Tuilagi my patience was done. The nail finally driven in with Arundell leaving for Lawrence whilst the standard to whom all 10’s aspire to be stayed on the pitch.

[Mellsblue]

Hard to argue with this:

https://x.com/vmsportie/status/17180187 ... IjUZPGY9HQ

The whole debate is how to get the best out of our players. SB's way is not it.

Least tries conceded in the tournament going into the game last night.

Cos the only time we played a good team was in heavy rain. It’s also (should be) bloody easy to defend when you play with absolutely no width or adventure.

[Epaminondas Pules]

Hard to argue with this:

https://x.com/vmsportie/status/17180187 ... IjUZPGY9HQ

The whole debate is how to get the best out of our players. SB's way is not it.

Least tries conceded in the tournament going into the game last night. Reliable set piece, some young forwards coming through.

The stagnant attack is the only area of real issue. Changes coming in that area and fingers crossed that Farrell calls it a day to help further.

I wouldn't say that is our only real issue. There's plenty that needs serious work besides attack, which in itself is a huge topic area.

Front row largely needs a complete overhaul, though the options are somewhat scarce or very raw. Second row is OK. Backrow decent options available, but no unit.

And then there's the backs. And the less said there the better.

Then there's overall gameplan. Breakdown. Set piece(s). Leadership.

Maul defence was much improved vs SA. That was a big plus. And we mauled well vs Arg. Scrum was good, bad and indifferent, but we'll be lsoing Marler and Cole, so we're likely to see more of the bad and indifferent.

We do have some very good talent coming through, but that's a little way off.

And there's the minor issue of a very, very inexperienced coaching group.

[Epaminondas Pules]

The forwards in general have been good. Martin, Chessa, Earl and Dan look nailed on. But behind that is abysmal. Massive shake up needed.

Three 10’s in the 23 and we can’t fashion a try scoring move. When Ford came on for Tuilagi my patience was done. The nail finally driven in with Arundell leaving for Lawrence whilst the standard to whom all 10’s aspire to be stayed on the pitch.

My favourite was when we had three playmakers on the pitch and never looked like making any plays at all whatsoever beyond kick the crap out of it.

[Oakboy]

The forwards in general have been good. Martin, Chessa, Earl and Dan look nailed on. But behind that is abysmal. Massive shake up needed.

Three 10’s in the 23 and we can’t fashion a try scoring move. When Ford came on for Tuilagi my patience was done. The nail finally driven in with Arundell leaving for Lawrence whilst the standard to whom all 10’s aspire to be stayed on the pitch.

Three 10s instead of (whoever is) the best one is pure coaching/selectorial cowardice. I think the word 'playmaker' should be banned for eternity. Would seven backs picked in their correct positions and given a run of games together with the freedom to play be so much to ask?

SHs and centres are allowed to be creative (if the right ones are picked). FB and wings are allowed to get into scoring positions (if the right ones are picked).

Let's face it, we knew what we were going to get as soon as Slade did not make the 33. If some of the best hands in English rugby are not needed how much passing is going to be on-script?

[p/d]

The forwards in general have been good. Martin, Chessa, Earl and Dan look nailed on. But behind that is abysmal. Massive shake up needed.

Three 10’s in the 23 and we can’t fashion a try scoring move. When Ford came on for Tuilagi my patience was done. The nail finally driven in with Arundell leaving for Lawrence whilst the standard to whom all 10’s aspire to be stayed on the pitch.

My favourite was when we had three playmakers on the pitch and never looked like making any plays at all whatsoever beyond kick the crap out of it.

I couldn’t work out who was playing where let alone what the ‘genius’ game plan was for using the bench in that manner.

[Epaminondas Pules]

The forwards in general have been good. Martin, Chessa, Earl and Dan look nailed on. But behind that is abysmal. Massive shake up needed.

Three 10’s in the 23 and we can’t fashion a try scoring move. When Ford came on for Tuilagi my patience was done. The nail finally driven in with Arundell leaving for Lawrence whilst the standard to whom all 10’s aspire to be stayed on the pitch.

My favourite was when we had three playmakers on the pitch and never looked like making any plays at all whatsoever beyond kick the crap out of it.

I couldn’t work out who was playing where let alone what the ‘genius’ game plan was for using the bench in that manner.

Ah that was easy. Cause having three fly halves kicking means you can kick more than if you have two fly halves kicking.

Clever bastard is good old Scheming Brilliance!

[Mikey Brown]

The forwards in general have been good. Martin, Chessa, Earl and Dan look nailed on. But behind that is abysmal. Massive shake up needed.

Three 10’s in the 23 and we can’t fashion a try scoring move. When Ford came on for Tuilagi my patience was done. The nail finally driven in with Arundell leaving for Lawrence whilst the standard to whom all 10’s aspire to be stayed on the pitch.

Three 10s instead of (whoever is) the best one is pure coaching/selectorial cowardice. I think the word 'playmaker' should be banned for eternity. Would seven backs picked in their correct positions and given a run of games together with the freedom to play be so much to ask?

SHs and centres are allowed to be creative (if the right ones are picked). FB and wings are allowed to get into scoring positions (if the right ones are picked).

Let's face it, we knew what we were going to get as soon as Slade did not make the 33. If some of the best hands in English rugby are not needed how much passing is going to be on-script?

That’s a curious take.

I was a big, big Slade fan for quite a while (and still feel he has a role to play) but we haven’t consistently been able to use his handling/distribution skills (after taking about 20 caps to stop dropping the ball all the time) for much of his England career at all.

Playing alongside an actual 12, ideal one with a bit of punch, would probably help him a lot though.

[p/d]

My favourite was when we had three playmakers on the pitch and never looked like making any plays at all whatsoever beyond kick the crap out of it.

I couldn’t work out who was playing where let alone what the ‘genius’ game plan was for using the bench in that manner.

Ah that was easy. Cause having three fly halves kicking means you can kick more than if you have two fly halves kicking.

Clever bastard is good old Scheming Brilliance!

And now I just feel foolish.

[Epaminondas Pules]

I couldn’t work out who was playing where let alone what the ‘genius’ game plan was for using the bench in that manner.

Ah that was easy. Cause having three fly halves kicking means you can kick more than if you have two fly halves kicking.

Clever bastard is good old Scheming Brilliance!

And now I just feel foolish.

Don't be hard on yourself. Not everyone can be the genius that is Sweaty Ballbag.

[Epaminondas Pules]

The forwards in general have been good. Martin, Chessa, Earl and Dan look nailed on. But behind that is abysmal. Massive shake up needed.

Three 10’s in the 23 and we can’t fashion a try scoring move. When Ford came on for Tuilagi my patience was done. The nail finally driven in with Arundell leaving for Lawrence whilst the standard to whom all 10’s aspire to be stayed on the pitch.

Three 10s instead of (whoever is) the best one is pure coaching/selectorial cowardice. I think the word 'playmaker' should be banned for eternity. Would seven backs picked in their correct positions and given a run of games together with the freedom to play be so much to ask?

SHs and centres are allowed to be creative (if the right ones are picked). FB and wings are allowed to get into scoring positions (if the right ones are picked).

Let's face it, we knew what we were going to get as soon as Slade did not make the 33. If some of the best hands in English rugby are not needed how much passing is going to be on-script?

And therein lies a significant issue. It shouldn't be, but it is.

[jngf]

I found this interesting

That is fascinating stuff. Corbisiero should be doing more punditry than just on American television, based on that.

Puja

Yeah, if they aren't going to do anything about 40% of every game being taken up with scrums we should at least get a few more people (than just Flatman) that have some idea of what's going on.

I played lock and would happily play 0-0 games in the mud and rain, but I am absolutely bored to fucking tears with scrums the way they are at the moment. Watching hours and hours of these guys carefully adjusting eachother's waistbands before falling to the floor and pointing at eachother in surprise, with very little insight from commentary, is just not a good use of time. Most of the analysis seems to boil down to "they were both cheating but here's a match-winning penalty on the back of a mysterious 50/50 call".

I always had you down as a feisty threequarter Mikey! It’s like seeing a photo of an Archers’ character for the first time having pictured them in a dramatically different way

[jngf]

Absolutely no chance Farrell calls it a day. He'll be aiming for the next RWC

He should be invited to understudy Marlie P for the next one

[FKAS]

The whole debate is how to get the best out of our players. SB's way is not it.

Least tries conceded in the tournament going into the game last night.

Cos the only time we played a good team was in heavy rain. It’s also (should be) bloody easy to defend when you play with absolutely no width or adventure.

Not really because generally with no adventure you kick a lot and unless you stay connected and chased coherently you'll get picked apart. See us Vs Scotland in the 6N when iirc the weather wasn't great either. With a coherent attack you'd hope we'd be able to keep the ball for longer periods.

Fiji scored a lot of tries this tournament. We also played SA, Samoa, Japan and Argentina twice. Maybe not the top tier of sides bar SA but could enough to cause a weak defence issues. England aren't a top 5 side but the defence has done a job.

[Mellsblue]

Least tries conceded in the tournament going into the game last night.

Cos the only time we played a good team was in heavy rain. It’s also (should be) bloody easy to defend when you play with absolutely no width or adventure.

Not really because generally with no adventure you kick a lot and unless you stay connected and chased coherently you'll get picked apart. See us Vs Scotland in the 6N when iirc the weather wasn't great either. With a coherent attack you'd hope we'd be able to keep the ball for longer periods.

Fiji scored a lot of tries this tournament. We also played SA, Samoa, Japan and Argentina twice. Maybe not the top tier of sides bar SA but could enough to cause a weak defence issues. England aren't a top 5 side but the defence has done a job.

If you can’t stay connected on a kick chase then you wouldn’t get in my local 2nd XV.
Because Fiji have played crap teams as well. Defending well against Samoa (not that we did particularly), Japan and Argentina does not mean you have a good defence, particularly the way Arg played in the opener and Japan played against us.
As always, the standards you old current or ex Leicester players and coaches are very low.