England v Wales; Saturday, 4.45. ITV / S4C

[p/d]

Just how good are we now 2 matches have been played? Based on performances against Italy, Ireland seem light years ahead. Mind you, they had three distinct advantages: home fixture, a quality referee and an 8 year-old anthem singer.

Ireland were good, as was the ref. I shan’t pass comment on the kid singing.

To be fair to Italy they were without 2 very influential ball carriers and Vardy had clearly popped some sleeping pills

[Banquo]

Just how good are we now 2 matches have been played? Based on performances against Italy, Ireland seem light years ahead. Mind you, they had three distinct advantages: home fixture, a quality referee and an 8 year-old anthem singer.

Ireland were good, as was the ref. I shan’t pass comment on the kid singing.

To be fair to Italy they were without 2 very influential ball carriers and Vardy had clearly popped some sleeping pills

Ireland also rotated pretty heavily, but then they have a lot more depth than Eetaly.

[p/d]

Like others I'm finding myself not enthused about watching rugby at the mo; interminable scrum time, TMO intervention after TMO intervention (and sometimes still coming up with wrong answer), the fucking caterpillar, rotating cast off the bench, iffy reffing (tho Pearce was good I thought), and a lot of 'lets kick it away and hope they fuck it up'. The game should be better than this.

You sure you aren’t still pissed!!!

I fully concur with all this

[p/d]

Just how good are we now 2 matches have been played? Based on performances against Italy, Ireland seem light years ahead. Mind you, they had three distinct advantages: home fixture, a quality referee and an 8 year-old anthem singer.

Ireland were good, as was the ref. I shan’t pass comment on the kid singing.

To be fair to Italy they were without 2 very influential ball carriers and Vardy had clearly popped some sleeping pills

Ireland also rotated pretty heavily, but then they have a lot more depth than Eetaly.

Aye. Wasn’t trying to justify the gulf between both sides, just Italy still look under sourced after all these years

[Puja]

I am actually really looking forward to doing a m-b-m for this game - I am amazed at how pessimistic people on here are being and want to see if the green shoots I saw were really covered in the manure other people did.

Won't be for a day or two, cause I'm away this weekend, but don't y'all dare take this one away from me!

Puja

The floor is yours, sir.

In case you don't have it in some sort of autocomplete by now:

We spend the rest of the minute failing to scrummage.

You're going to want to copy and paste that as you'll be using it a lot.

Yeah, feels like the second half especially will be quite quick to write up.

Puja

[Oakboy]

Just how good are we now 2 matches have been played? Based on performances against Italy, Ireland seem light years ahead. Mind you, they had three distinct advantages: home fixture, a quality referee and an 8 year-old anthem singer.

The anthem singer absolute star of the weekend.


I think we are pretty ropy tbh. You could improve the player quality in a couple of places, but only marginally (back row imo has most scope). We remain imprecise in too many areas (esp cf Ireland), unclear in defence, and trying to find/fire up an attacking game; set piece is mediocre in truth. That said, I was pi55ed watching the Wales game and can't be bothered to watch again. Like others I'm finding myself not enthused about watching rugby at the mo; interminable scrum time, TMO intervention after TMO intervention (and sometimes still coming up with wrong answer), the fucking caterpillar, rotating cast off the bench, iffy reffing (tho Pearce was good I thought), and a lot of 'lets kick it away and hope they fuck it up'. The game should be better than this.

If you are disillusioned I'm wondering if there's any hope at all!

[Oakboy]

Just how good are we now 2 matches have been played? Based on performances against Italy, Ireland seem light years ahead. Mind you, they had three distinct advantages: home fixture, a quality referee and an 8 year-old anthem singer.

The anthem singer absolute star of the weekend.

It's maybe a minor innovation but it WAS an innovation. It got the crowd up for the game just before the kick-off.

[p/d]

Just how good are we now 2 matches have been played? Based on performances against Italy, Ireland seem light years ahead. Mind you, they had three distinct advantages: home fixture, a quality referee and an 8 year-old anthem singer.

The anthem singer absolute star of the weekend.

It's maybe a minor innovation but it WAS an innovation. It got the crowd up for the game just before the kick-off.

Had me making a cup of coffee and checking on QPR’s table position

[Stom]

The anthem singer absolute star of the weekend.

It's maybe a minor innovation but it WAS an innovation. It got the crowd up for the game just before the kick-off.

Had me making a cup of coffee and checking on QPR’s table position

You mean QPR's ever increasing relegation chance

[Banquo]

Just how good are we now 2 matches have been played? Based on performances against Italy, Ireland seem light years ahead. Mind you, they had three distinct advantages: home fixture, a quality referee and an 8 year-old anthem singer.

The anthem singer absolute star of the weekend.

It's maybe a minor innovation but it WAS an innovation. It got the crowd up for the game just before the kick-off.

I'm not an old cynic like p/d, I thought it was great.

[p/d]

It's maybe a minor innovation but it WAS an innovation. It got the crowd up for the game just before the kick-off.

Had me making a cup of coffee and checking on QPR’s table position

You mean QPR's ever increasing relegation chance

That’s the one!! It’s the only way to ensure a blue and white hoops extravaganza v the mighty Reading!

[Numbers]

Maybe I was expecting too much from England against what was far from a good Welsh team, but with the pre-match hype from Jamie George, I was disappointed, and with an away game in Edinburgh followed by Ireland at HQ and France in Lyon, I can’t see any light at the end of the tunnel. I’m equally disappointed with the French, and with the rumours of unrest among the coaching staff who are far from happy with Galthié’s alleged pig-headedness in his team selection, the future is looking a bit bleak pour les Bleus. Dante and Fickou’s days are numbered and the Lucu/Jalibert halfback partnership has been disappointing.

With Fickou running your defence in the backs I can't see him going anywhere any time soon, he's also still really quite good.

[Stom]

Had me making a cup of coffee and checking on QPR’s table position

You mean QPR's ever increasing relegation chance

That’s the one!! It’s the only way to ensure a blue and white hoops extravaganza v the mighty Reading!

It brings a tear to my eye. Such an amazing sight.

[Oakboy]

The anthem singer absolute star of the weekend.

It's maybe a minor innovation but it WAS an innovation. It got the crowd up for the game just before the kick-off.

I'm not an old cynic like p/d, I thought it was great.

His name was plain old 'Stevie'. p/d needed an 'Oengus' or something more exotic!!

[p/d]

It's maybe a minor innovation but it WAS an innovation. It got the crowd up for the game just before the kick-off.

I'm not an old cynic like p/d, I thought it was great.

His name was plain old 'Stevie'. p/d needed an 'Oengus' or something more exotic!!

Looks like ya killed this thread Dors!!!

I assume we are all hanging on for Puja’s m-b-m blockbuster

[Banquo]

Maybe I was expecting too much from England against what was far from a good Welsh team, but with the pre-match hype from Jamie George, I was disappointed, and with an away game in Edinburgh followed by Ireland at HQ and France in Lyon, I can’t see any light at the end of the tunnel. I’m equally disappointed with the French, and with the rumours of unrest among the coaching staff who are far from happy with Galthié’s alleged pig-headedness in his team selection, the future is looking a bit bleak pour les Bleus. Dante and Fickou’s days are numbered and the Lucu/Jalibert halfback partnership has been disappointing.

With Fickou running your defence in the backs I can't see him going anywhere any time soon, he's also still really quite good.

well yes. He's bloody good.

[francoisfou]

Maybe I was expecting too much from England against what was far from a good Welsh team, but with the pre-match hype from Jamie George, I was disappointed, and with an away game in Edinburgh followed by Ireland at HQ and France in Lyon, I can’t see any light at the end of the tunnel. I’m equally disappointed with the French, and with the rumours of unrest among the coaching staff who are far from happy with Galthié’s alleged pig-headedness in his team selection, the future is looking a bit bleak pour les Bleus. Dante and Fickou’s days are numbered and the Lucu/Jalibert halfback partnership has been disappointing.

With Fickou running your defence in the backs I can't see him going anywhere any time soon, he's also still really quite good.

well yes. He's bloody good.

Yes, and he has been the mainstay of the French XV's backs' defence for a while now, but questions are starting to be asked of his form at club and Test level. However, he's a consummate professional and will undoubtedly apply himself to retrieve the form that's expected of him, and he'll need to as there are some recent U20 centres snapping at his heels (Gailleton of Pau and Depoortère of Bordeaux/Bègles)

[francoisfou]

Maybe I was expecting too much from England against what was far from a good Welsh team, but with the pre-match hype from Jamie George, I was disappointed, and with an away game in Edinburgh followed by Ireland at HQ and France in Lyon, I can’t see any light at the end of the tunnel. I’m equally disappointed with the French, and with the rumours of unrest among the coaching staff who are far from happy with Galthié’s alleged pig-headedness in his team selection, the future is looking a bit bleak pour les Bleus. Dante and Fickou’s days are numbered and the Lucu/Jalibert halfback partnership has been disappointing.

With Fickou running your defence in the backs I can't see him going anywhere any time soon, he's also still really quite good.

well yes. He's bloody good.

Yes, and he has been the mainstay of the French XV's backs' defence for a while now, but questions are starting to be asked of his form at club and Test level. However, he's a consummate professional and will undoubtedly apply himself to retrieve the form that's expected of him, and he'll need to as there are some recent U20 centres snapping at his heels (Gailleton of Pau and Depoortère of Bordeaux/Bègles)

[Banquo]

With Fickou running your defence in the backs I can't see him going anywhere any time soon, he's also still really quite good.

well yes. He's bloody good.

Yes, and he has been the mainstay of the French XV's backs' defence for a while now, but questions are starting to be asked of his form at club and Test level. However, he's a consummate professional and will undoubtedly apply himself to retrieve the form that's expected of him, and he'll need to as there are some recent U20 centres snapping at his heels (Gailleton of Pau and Depoortère of Bordeaux/Bègles)

No idea why you'd question his form based on his last two international outings, but fair enough.

[francoisfou]

well yes. He's bloody good.

Yes, and he has been the mainstay of the French XV's backs' defence for a while now, but questions are starting to be asked of his form at club and Test level. However, he's a consummate professional and will undoubtedly apply himself to retrieve the form that's expected of him, and he'll need to as there are some recent U20 centres snapping at his heels (Gailleton of Pau and Depoortère of Bordeaux/Bègles)

No idea why you'd question his form based on his last two international outings, but fair enough.

I mentioned his club form too, Racing’s Champions’ Cup match at home to Harlequins before Christmas comes to mind, and am simply stating that questions are being asked.

[Oakboy]

I queries Earl's shape during the Italy game and nobody responded. Now this from the DT:

Ben Earl has added bulk to aid his development as a Test-level No 8, even if the additional weight could cause him to huff and puff towards the end of matches.

Earl surged off the base of a five-metre scrum and through a gaggle of defenders to score England’s first try against Wales at the weekend. The 26-year-old, who won his 27th cap on Saturday, revealed that minor knee surgery in November had given him a six-week lay-off and a chance to ponder how he could build on an excellent World Cup.

Carrying in heavy traffic, Earl suggested, is one area he has targeted for improvement.

“Well I had that time out injured, so I had a bit of a think about what I needed in terms of contributing to this team, me as a player,” he said.

“I’m about two kilos heavier than I was probably during the World Cup. That might have a knock-on effect in certain bits, perhaps the ability to run at about 79 minutes. But I’ve put on a bit of lean mass, [it’s] not too different.”

Earl’s try was his second for England and his first at Twickenham. It was more impressive for the fact that his side were down to 14 men, with both Ollie Chessum and Ethan Roots in the sin-bin. England deployed Sam Underhill at lock and Tommy Freeman at blindside flanker.

England's Ben Earl scores the team's first try during the Six Nations match against Wales
Earl touches down for England's first try against Wales CREDIT: Getty Images/Adrian Dennis
“I think the ball popped out of the scrum as well, so I don’t know I managed that,” Earl added.

“I was just trying to get as wide as I could, and the next thing I knew, the try-line was below me, so I just reached out and touched down. I was buzzing, I think it’s my first try at Twickenham, so I was pretty pleased. It’s contributed to a winning cause, so yeah, really pleased.”

After praising the progress of Felix Jones’s defensive system, Earl also outlined how England have given him a roaming remit while they are in possession.

“Richard Wigglesworth has been really clear with me in terms of giving me a bit of a free role of where I pop up,” he said. “Last week, for example, I probably carried a bit more off nine than I did this week. But in terms of where I’m at, I’m loving playing for this team, I love this team.”

England will head to Edinburgh in round three bidding to improve a streak of one win in six Calcutta Cup encounters, which stretches back to a comprehensive loss in 2018.

No blitz let-up despite Russell threat
Earl has featured in three of these Anglo-Scottish tussles, coming off the bench in 2020, 2021 and 2023. He would appear to be in line for a first Calcutta Cup start a week on Saturday, and could face Andy Christie, a good friend and Saracens team-mate.

Admitting that England will be out to “right some wrongs” against Scotland, Earl finished by acknowledging the threat of Finn Russell. The aggressive blitz introduced by Jones will not relent despite Russell’s ability to impart width.

“What it [facing Russell] does is narrow your focus,” Earl said. “So you go: ‘Look, we’re going to go back to our fundamentals in terms of what we’re going after in defence, and if we get stung we get stung, and we’ll go harder next time.’

“In a way that kind of frees us up, and we’ll look forward to preparing to play against someone like him. He’s one of the best players in the world, and those are the guys you want to play against.”


I can't help wondering about the advisory process in all this, both club and country. Is Earl's future best aligned at 7 or 8?

[16th man]

Right Ben, we've picked you at 8, now start trying to turn yourself into Billy V.

[Mikey Brown]

Is that what it sounds like? Hard to know what 2kg on Earl's frame really looks like to be honest. Makes sense given our number 8 options to look at giving them a bit more freedom to roam and link play than what we've asked from Billy (and his stand-ins) the last few years.

Otherwise just pick Barbeary and forget about Earl, Dombrandt, Mercer etc.

[Oakboy]

Is that what it sounds like? Hard to know what 2kg on Earl's frame really looks like to be honest. Makes sense given our number 8 options to look at giving them a bit more freedom to roam and link play than what we've asked from Billy (and his stand-ins) the last few years.

Otherwise just pick Barbeary and forget about Earl, Dombrandt, Mercer etc.

Did you not notice that he looked lumpier? It seemed quite evident in the Italy game compared with the RWC, I thought.

[Beasties]

Just how good are we now 2 matches have been played? Based on performances against Italy, Ireland seem light years ahead. Mind you, they had three distinct advantages: home fixture, a quality referee and an 8 year-old anthem singer.

The anthem singer absolute star of the weekend.


I think we are pretty ropy tbh. You could improve the player quality in a couple of places, but only marginally (back row imo has most scope). We remain imprecise in too many areas (esp cf Ireland), unclear in defence, and trying to find/fire up an attacking game; set piece is mediocre in truth. That said, I was pi55ed watching the Wales game and can't be bothered to watch again. Like others I'm finding myself not enthused about watching rugby at the mo; interminable scrum time, TMO intervention after TMO intervention (and sometimes still coming up with wrong answer), the fucking caterpillar, rotating cast off the bench, iffy reffing (tho Pearce was good I thought), and a lot of 'lets kick it away and hope they fuck it up'. The game should be better than this.

All of the above.

I usually watch these games on a bit of a delay so I can just ff through the absurd scrum setups, but I had to actually watch it in real time this weekend.
Never again. It’s killing all enjoyment. Add in the baffling stop start nature of the 6N tournament and it’s just turning the whole thing into a trudge that you’ve got to do because….

I’m struggling enough to enjoy watching rugby after the demise of Wasps. I’m starting to wonder why I bother.