Japan vs England team speculation

[FKAS]

Positionally;

LH - Marler, Baxter, Rodd
HK - Dan, Oghre, George
TH - Cole, Heyes
LK - Itoje, Isekwe, Martin, Tuima
Flank - Earl, CCS, Curry, Curry, Roots
8 - Dombrant, Fisilau, Willis
9 - JvP, Quirke, Randall
10 - Ford, Atkinson
Centre - Northmore, Slade
Wing - IFW, Roebuck
Fullback - Steward, M Smith, Carpenter, Malins

Lol

Earl at 12 would have been the ideal for this

He won't play there though whereas Marcus is as likely to play 15 as 10. Possibly more likely to play 15.

[Epaminondas Pules]

Ford is confirmed out of the tour

[Puja]

So, we're all devoutly praying that FSmith's injury isn't too bad, then? What's the next option - CAtkinson off the bench? Frankly, I think I'd rather go with Furbank covering 10 in that situation.

Puja

[Scrumhead]

Post game I think Finn Smith said it was cramp and seemed pretty confident he is fine.

In the event that he’s not, I agree on Furbank > Atkinson.

Might be an extra reason to take Malins?

[FKAS]

I'd rather take Orlando Bailey than Atkinson. Better all round game.

[TheNomad]

Wonder if Hendy will get a go. He’s got something different I think.

Wonder where he’ll end up positionally? Could see him in the centre actually

[Mikey Brown]

I like Hendy’s attitude and he’s got a great step, but I can’t say I was even thinking he was in the England radar.

Is he an attacking genius or a little bit of a headless chicken who does very unpredictable things and hasn’t been sussed out yet?

What’s his all round game like? I got the sense there was good reason he doesn’t start ahead of Sleightholme or Freeman. He reminds me of an early Jonny May in a way, but that’s not necessarily a bad thing.

[TheNomad]

I like Hendy’s attitude and he’s got a great step, but I can’t say I was even thinking he was in the England radar.

Is he an attacking genius or a little bit of a headless chicken who does very unpredictable things and hasn’t been sussed out yet?

What’s his all round game like? I got the sense there was good reason he doesn’t start ahead of Sleightholme or Freeman. He reminds me of an early Jonny May in a way, but that’s not necessarily a bad thing.

I get what you mean, but surely he’s not starting ahead of those two because they’re two of the best wingers in the league

He’s not quite ready, I don’t disagree, but his strength into contact and step are seriously impressive. It’s why I think centre could work for him. Likely I’m jamming a square peg in a round hole because we’re well stocked in the back three, but he’s been really impressive when I’ve seen him

[Scrumhead]

I’m a bit be,used by the Hendy love-in. In a list of back three options, I think he’s a fair way down. He might get in ahead of Muir or Malins but I think he’s too raw to be anything more than a non-playing apprentice.

[Spiffy]

I’m a bit be,used by the Hendy love-in. In a list of back three options, I think he’s a fair way down. He might get in ahead of Muir or Malins but I think he’s too raw to be anything more than a non-playing apprentice.

He is probably no more raw than IFW, who has taken to it like a duck. England have some exciting back three players.Picking the right combo will be the challenge.

[TheNomad]

I’m a bit be,used by the Hendy love-in. In a list of back three options, I think he’s a fair way down. He might get in ahead of Muir or Malins but I think he’s too raw to be anything more than a non-playing apprentice.

I think that’s how I’d consider him though

Otherwise there’s Freeman, IFW and Sleighthome all some way ahead. Ibitoye should be. Likely Cokanasiga and Radwan too - though the last three don’t seem too high on SB’s list.

At FB, Furbank and Steward are clearly ahead. Carpenter should be ahead. Malins arguably too.

So it’s not that we lack the personnel- it’s more a call on his potential.

But i totally get that a good pre-season also has huge value

[Puja]

I like Hendy’s attitude and he’s got a great step, but I can’t say I was even thinking he was in the England radar.

Is he an attacking genius or a little bit of a headless chicken who does very unpredictable things and hasn’t been sussed out yet?

What’s his all round game like? I got the sense there was good reason he doesn’t start ahead of Sleightholme or Freeman. He reminds me of an early Jonny May in a way, but that’s not necessarily a bad thing.

I'd say this is bang on as a comparison. He's certainly not ready for actual international caps, especially not with the other players available to us in the back 3, but I am very much on board with him being in the squad and learning from the environment.

Puja

[Scrumhead]

I’m a bit be,used by the Hendy love-in. In a list of back three options, I think he’s a fair way down. He might get in ahead of Muir or Malins but I think he’s too raw to be anything more than a non-playing apprentice.

He is probably no more raw than IFW, who has taken to it like a duck. England have some exciting back three players.Picking the right combo will be the challenge.

Yeah, that’s a fair point. However, of the uncapped back three players, I’d argue that Sleightholme, Murley (sadly injured ATM), Roebuck, Muir and Carptenter are all more deserving and well-rounded than Hendy. All of those have been in recent squads too.

Muir’s really the only one of those you could de-prioritise based upon age, but even then he’s only 28 and has less miles on the clock than most as a 7s convert.

[Epaminondas Pules]

Though Hendy has something that is not coachable. He has a raw instinct. Not saying he should be in, but IMO he has something different.

[Adam_P]

And he gallops like a horse, which makes him hard to tackle

[Banquo]

And he gallops like a horse, which makes him hard to tackle

Muir v Hendy is like the Epsom Derby

[Scrumhead]

I’m not dead set against the idea, I just think adding more inexperience to what will already be a fairly green group of back three players feels risky. I’d be surprised if Furbank, Freeman and IFW have 25 caps between them. Then if we’re all wanting/expecting Sleghtholme to go, that’s another debutant being added to the mix.

[TheNomad]

Final (I think) Squad

Forwards:

Fin Baxter, Dan Cole, Alex Coles, Chandler Cunningham-South, Ben Curry, Tom Curry, Theo Dan, Alex Dombrandt, Ben Earl, Charlie Ewels, Jamie George, Joe Heyes, Maro Itoje, Joe Marler, George Martin, Gabriel Oghre, Bevan Rodd, Ethan Roots, Will Stuart, Sam Underhill

Backs:

Joe Carpenter, Fraser Dingwall, Immanuel Feyi-Waboso, Tommy Freeman, George Furbank, Ollie Lawrence, Alex Mitchell, Luke Northmore, Harry Randall, Tom Roebuck, Henry Slade, Ollie Sleightholme, Fin Smith, Marcus Smith, Ben Spencer, Freddie Steward

[Puja]

There is a thread for the squad announcement already, just so we don't duplicate discussion. Have shifted the posts across.

Mod

[Puja]

So, on the subject of going back to the Japan game, the squad now gives us what the 'A' side would be if we picked that:

Baxter/Rodd
Dan
Stuart
Ewels
Coles
Roots
BCurry
Dombrandt

Spencer/Randall
FSmith
Roebuck
Dingwall
Northmore
Sleightholme
Steward/Carpenter

What do we think? Both on the grounds of, "Is it good enough to beat Japan?" and "Are we better off playing our first XV to get cohesion ahead of the NZ tests?"

Puja

[FKAS]

Whichever Smith is starting Vs NZ needs a go with the first choice back line. Need to build up the cohesion. Probably should rest Mitchell or have him on the bench at most. Up front some rotation but we want a statement victory not a frustrating defeat heading into NZ.

[Puja]

Whichever Smith is starting Vs NZ needs a go with the first choice back line. Need to build up the cohesion. Probably should rest Mitchell or have him on the bench at most. Up front some rotation but we want a statement victory not a frustrating defeat heading into NZ.

I think I'm generally in agreement. Forwards can afford to be a bit more mix-and-match (and I'm hoping Itoje's getting a rest anyway), but the backline is going to need to be on point for NZ and having a warm-up match is a godsend.

Puja