Re: What next for 24/25?
Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2024 11:47 am
Edwards has no experience of heading up an intl side, and it’s been years since he has headed up any side, assuming he did so at Wasps (DOR?)
Edwards has no experience of heading up an intl side, and it’s been years since he has headed up any side, assuming he did so at Wasps (DOR?)
I don't think either will ever be involved but I've always thought a combination of Baxter and Edwards had the right balance of experience/skills.
Honestly, I don’t know.
I would let him go and move onPuja wrote: ↑Wed Aug 28, 2024 12:13 am Telegraph saying that the players are behind Borthwick (vote of confidence) and also suggesting that FJones could stay on and work out his notice across the AIs and the 6N! Not entirely sure how that would work.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union ... lix-jones/
Puja
Depends on where he's going and the full situation. It's a 12 month notice period and those work both ways, we are on the hook for paying for him. If we're paying him he can work. If he's not got a new employer he's unlikely to be happy to walk away and not get paid, so we'd have to pay him off. If we pay him off and he walks into the AB attack job next month the RFU are going to look stupid. If he's got another job offer on the table the RFU might well know that and he looking for some compensation.Banquo wrote: ↑Wed Aug 28, 2024 10:35 amI would let him go and move onPuja wrote: ↑Wed Aug 28, 2024 12:13 am Telegraph saying that the players are behind Borthwick (vote of confidence) and also suggesting that FJones could stay on and work out his notice across the AIs and the 6N! Not entirely sure how that would work.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union ... lix-jones/
Puja
or have a demotivated clock watcher. Just negotiate and get rid.FKAS wrote: ↑Wed Aug 28, 2024 12:52 pmDepends on where he's going and the full situation. It's a 12 month notice period and those work both ways, we are on the hook for paying for him. If we're paying him he can work. If he's not got a new employer he's unlikely to be happy to walk away and not get paid, so we'd have to pay him off. If we pay him off and he walks into the AB attack job next month the RFU are going to look stupid. If he's got another job offer on the table the RFU might well know that and he looking for some compensation.Banquo wrote: ↑Wed Aug 28, 2024 10:35 amI would let him go and move onPuja wrote: ↑Wed Aug 28, 2024 12:13 am Telegraph saying that the players are behind Borthwick (vote of confidence) and also suggesting that FJones could stay on and work out his notice across the AIs and the 6N! Not entirely sure how that would work.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union ... lix-jones/
Puja
Doesn't strike me as that type. He could also be set analysis work etc.Banquo wrote: ↑Wed Aug 28, 2024 1:22 pmor have a demotivated clock watcher. Just negotiate and get rid.FKAS wrote: ↑Wed Aug 28, 2024 12:52 pmDepends on where he's going and the full situation. It's a 12 month notice period and those work both ways, we are on the hook for paying for him. If we're paying him he can work. If he's not got a new employer he's unlikely to be happy to walk away and not get paid, so we'd have to pay him off. If we pay him off and he walks into the AB attack job next month the RFU are going to look stupid. If he's got another job offer on the table the RFU might well know that and he looking for some compensation.
or lines? I must be polite to Steve or summat.FKAS wrote: ↑Wed Aug 28, 2024 3:23 pmDoesn't strike me as that type. He could also be set analysis work etc.Banquo wrote: ↑Wed Aug 28, 2024 1:22 pmor have a demotivated clock watcher. Just negotiate and get rid.FKAS wrote: ↑Wed Aug 28, 2024 12:52 pm
Depends on where he's going and the full situation. It's a 12 month notice period and those work both ways, we are on the hook for paying for him. If we're paying him he can work. If he's not got a new employer he's unlikely to be happy to walk away and not get paid, so we'd have to pay him off. If we pay him off and he walks into the AB attack job next month the RFU are going to look stupid. If he's got another job offer on the table the RFU might well know that and he looking for some compensation.
Would SB or the players want to work with him? The 12 months notice period would be better spent bedding in a new coach/system. Surely they can just agree to him going and stopping pay so that his salary can be used elsewhere.
If he's not got a new role he's not going to agree to that he'll request a pay out. Similarly the RFU might not be keen to pay him off only for him to walk straight into a role with a rival. He might end up on gardening leave but the RFU aren't getting value from paying him if they go that route.
True, but I just can't see how team spirit survives/improves if the departing coach stays in camp. We are on the rise. Anything that screws that up can't be good.
I do know as both a resignee and having seen people who have quit/thinking of quitting they have checked out well before they leave. In an elite environment that relies on teamwork and full commitment, can't see it working well whatever the motivation for quitting.Puja wrote: ↑Wed Aug 28, 2024 4:58 pm It very much depends on what the break in relations actually is. If it's just that he quite likes the idea of returning to Ireland and fancies joining Walthers, then he's likely to be professional and it'd be a very good idea to keep his experience in camp at least for the AIs, when we're unlikely to be able to get a replacement in time. Plus, if he is going to Ireland, then I'd be in favour of enforcing his gardening leave to avoid helping a rival.
If, otoh, there has been a major bust-up, then there's no value in forcing him to work.
As with so much of this situation, we just don't know enough about what's gone on to have definitive opinions.
Puja
a hard hobbit to breakMellsblue wrote: ↑Wed Aug 28, 2024 8:29 pm Going by the piece, including Furbank quotes, in today’s Times, Jones will not be in an England camp ever again.
Tom Tombleson is a completely different story. I believe Borthwick went to his house earlier in the summer only to realise he’d set off on an expedition to Middle-earth.
Walters was apparently not happy with this at all!Banquo wrote: ↑Wed Aug 28, 2024 6:01 pmI do know as both a resignee and having seen people who have quit/thinking of quitting they have checked out well before they leave. In an elite environment that relies on teamwork and full commitment, can't see it working well whatever the motivation for quitting.Puja wrote: ↑Wed Aug 28, 2024 4:58 pm It very much depends on what the break in relations actually is. If it's just that he quite likes the idea of returning to Ireland and fancies joining Walthers, then he's likely to be professional and it'd be a very good idea to keep his experience in camp at least for the AIs, when we're unlikely to be able to get a replacement in time. Plus, if he is going to Ireland, then I'd be in favour of enforcing his gardening leave to avoid helping a rival.
If, otoh, there has been a major bust-up, then there's no value in forcing him to work.
As with so much of this situation, we just don't know enough about what's gone on to have definitive opinions.
Puja
As you say, we don't know what the motivation is, but experience surely says as he ain't committed to a long term development project, it can't be that positive to say the least.
(also interesting that before Walters and Jones announced, Tom Tombleson was moved on)
Is the implication that the dismissal was the starting point of the whole upheaval? If so, it calls into question the rationale behind the reported players' vote of confidence in Borthwick. Some must have had sympathy with all three individuals leaving, presumably??Epaminondas Pules wrote: ↑Wed Aug 28, 2024 11:18 pmWalters was apparently not happy with this at all!Banquo wrote: ↑Wed Aug 28, 2024 6:01 pmI do know as both a resignee and having seen people who have quit/thinking of quitting they have checked out well before they leave. In an elite environment that relies on teamwork and full commitment, can't see it working well whatever the motivation for quitting.Puja wrote: ↑Wed Aug 28, 2024 4:58 pm It very much depends on what the break in relations actually is. If it's just that he quite likes the idea of returning to Ireland and fancies joining Walthers, then he's likely to be professional and it'd be a very good idea to keep his experience in camp at least for the AIs, when we're unlikely to be able to get a replacement in time. Plus, if he is going to Ireland, then I'd be in favour of enforcing his gardening leave to avoid helping a rival.
If, otoh, there has been a major bust-up, then there's no value in forcing him to work.
As with so much of this situation, we just don't know enough about what's gone on to have definitive opinions.
Puja
As you say, we don't know what the motivation is, but experience surely says as he ain't committed to a long term development project, it can't be that positive to say the least.
(also interesting that before Walters and Jones announced, Tom Tombleson was moved on)
Yes, the speculation was that this was the start of a domino effect. So a bit self inflicted if that was the case.Epaminondas Pules wrote: ↑Wed Aug 28, 2024 11:18 pmWalters was apparently not happy with this at all!Banquo wrote: ↑Wed Aug 28, 2024 6:01 pmI do know as both a resignee and having seen people who have quit/thinking of quitting they have checked out well before they leave. In an elite environment that relies on teamwork and full commitment, can't see it working well whatever the motivation for quitting.Puja wrote: ↑Wed Aug 28, 2024 4:58 pm It very much depends on what the break in relations actually is. If it's just that he quite likes the idea of returning to Ireland and fancies joining Walthers, then he's likely to be professional and it'd be a very good idea to keep his experience in camp at least for the AIs, when we're unlikely to be able to get a replacement in time. Plus, if he is going to Ireland, then I'd be in favour of enforcing his gardening leave to avoid helping a rival.
If, otoh, there has been a major bust-up, then there's no value in forcing him to work.
As with so much of this situation, we just don't know enough about what's gone on to have definitive opinions.
Puja
As you say, we don't know what the motivation is, but experience surely says as he ain't committed to a long term development project, it can't be that positive to say the least.
(also interesting that before Walters and Jones announced, Tom Tombleson was moved on)