RugbyRebels

Hooky wrote:

WaspInWales wrote:

Hooky wrote:I expect England to win. It's refreshing to hear we didn't play gatball but I'm just bored of Groundhog Day.

Pfft. You have seen who we've picked haven't you?

No, what's the team?

Youngs and Farrell at half back. Both have problems passing the ball although one makes up for it with ice cool temperament.

Haskell and Robshaw up against Fardy, Hooper. Pocock at 8 for the Aussies.

I'm happy with most of our team but in key areas EJ seems to have the same blindspots as his predecessors.

Well the best team won. The Blacks just looked more dangerous throughout the game, although I was happy with our ball in hand play generally. Still some way ward kicking, but we had some nice lines and offloads as well.

A shaky lineout cost us momentum in key areas of the pitch.

I'm still not sold on Anscombe at full back. As an extra distributor in attack it's fine, but defensively he looks positionally naive. Amos did some good stuff today, but make a lot of mistakes, and probably hasn't got the gas to match top level wingers.

But ultimately that was a performance to be proud of and the score line looks harsh for what was a very competitive game. A huge improvement on last time out.

Hopefully we will improve as the squad spends time together, of course so too will the Blacks. I just hope that a few of our big performers haven't played their cup final today.

Well done Wales . Score pretty tough on you but players looked confident and certainly not intimidated .

Good game too .

a better than expected performance & nice to see us at least trying to play a little bit of attacking rugby but we still kick too much & our first phase attacking is basically someone to Roberts into 3/4 defenders; we are just not comfortable, able or willing under the coaches to consistently play the kind of rugby that will threaten the southern hemisphere teams

Pity Wales just ran out of steam in the final quarter. Pushed NZ all the way and contributed fully to a hugely entertaining game.

fivepointer wrote:Pity Wales just ran out of steam in the final quarter. Pushed NZ all the way and contributed fully to a hugely entertaining game.

Inevitable when you're under that much pressure for so long. Welsh players aren't used to playing at this level and we've got to find a way of doing so somehow.

wayneha50 wrote:a better than expected performance & nice to see us at least trying to play a little bit of attacking rugby but we still kick too much & our first phase attacking is basically someone to Roberts into 3/4 defenders; we are just not comfortable, able or willing under the coaches to consistently play the kind of rugby that will threaten the southern hemisphere teams

..which is odd, because your counterattacks showed you can run and handle with the very best.

I don't think I've seen Wales play with that degree of confidence, creativity and finishing ability as in the first half. It was great to see. The All Blacks tackling was not what it should have been, but Wales took the opportunities well.

In the second half, the subs got rolled early and I think a game plan that might have been intended for next week came out. More kicking for territory, less kicking to regain possession.

The final score line certainly flattered the All Blacks, but I think that Wales will struggle to improve whereas the All Blacks can. 24-3 in the second half is hard to argue with.

Harsh scoreline. Wales deserved better than that but the best team won.

I knew Wales would up their game after playing so poorly a couple of weeks ago. They deserve a lot of credit for that performance.

Lizard wrote:I don't think I've seen Wales play with that degree of confidence, creativity and finishing ability as in the first half. It was great to see. The All Blacks tackling was not what it should have been, but Wales took the opportunities well.

In the second half, the subs got rolled early and I think a game plan that might have been intended for next week came out. More kicking for territory, less kicking to regain possession.

The final score line certainly flattered the All Blacks, but I think that Wales will struggle to improve whereas the All Blacks can. 24-3 in the second half is hard to argue with.

All Blacks missed something like 25% of tackles in the first half hour; they missed a lot less thereafter, and worked out the welsh lineout. That's one of the greatest things about your sides, they learn quickly and know what and how to change.

When fired up I think Wales 1st choice players are 95-100% as good as most ABs 1st choice players. Problem is, so are the ABs 2nd and 3rd choice players. Ours are 40-50% as good. There's the rub.

Buggaluggs wrote:When fired up I think Wales 1st choice players are 95-100% as good as most ABs 1st choice players. Problem is, so are the ABs 2nd and 3rd choice players. Ours are 40-50% as good. There's the rub.

I'd love to see how you gathered the data to come up with those percentages.

Len wrote:

Buggaluggs wrote:When fired up I think Wales 1st choice players are 95-100% as good as most ABs 1st choice players. Problem is, so are the ABs 2nd and 3rd choice players. Ours are 40-50% as good. There's the rub.

I'd love to see how you gathered the data to come up with those percentages.

It IS the WMB remember...

Len wrote:

Buggaluggs wrote:When fired up I think Wales 1st choice players are 95-100% as good as most ABs 1st choice players. Problem is, so are the ABs 2nd and 3rd choice players. Ours are 40-50% as good. There's the rub.

I'd love to see how you gathered the data to come up with those percentages.

Well, the fact that in recent games the ABs are slightly better for most of the game and vastly better for the last quarter.

We'll done Wales pity about the final score which was flattering to NZ. Thought Wales were going to get the win up to 60 minutes but unable to keep up the intensity. At least there will be some positives from pushing them so hard, otherwise the next two would have been awful. Hopefully this will give your lads confidence and will be able tobgrab a win.

It's worth pointing out that this was easily Wales highest score against NZ in NZ, and also the lowest margin of defeat.

Ok, we did a lot better than I expected, but the scoreline was an unsurprising one in the end, even if it wasn't a fair reflection of the game. Great work to be neck and neck with NZ for most of the match.
My heart sank when we made all those substitutions with about 15 to go. Roberts coming off! Liam, probably our best player (maybe with Faletau) coming off for Anscombe! And all the rest at the same time. And then NZ scored a try almost immediately, taking them 11 points ahead, basically out of sight at that point in the game. Did Gatland really have to make all those changes? Sure, we still were probably running out of steam and due to lose the match but it looked like we lost our shape enough to let the ABs in at that point.
(That said, Scott Williams was superb when he came on, but I would have preferred Foxy to have come off).

Son of Mathonwy wrote:Ok, we did a lot better than I expected, but the scoreline was an unsurprising one in the end, even if it wasn't a fair reflection of the game. Great work to be neck and neck with NZ for most of the match.
My heart sank when we made all those substitutions with about 15 to go. Roberts coming off! Liam, probably our best player (maybe with Faletau) coming off for Anscombe! And all the rest at the same time. And then NZ scored a try almost immediately, taking them 11 points ahead, basically out of sight at that point in the game. Did Gatland really have to make all those changes? Sure, we still were probably running out of steam and due to lose the match but it looked like we lost our shape enough to let the ABs in at that point.
(That said, Scott Williams was superb when he came on, but I would have preferred Foxy to have come off).

I was hoping Anscombe would have replaced Amos and agree ref Scott Williams.

On substitutions they have a lot more data than we do so i personally have stopped criticising them.

The score wasn't a true reflection of the first 65 minutes of the game. unfortunately it ewas a very true reflection of the last 15 minutes and it's an 80 minutes game. Having said that, Wales gave a good account of themselves. If they tried to attack by means other than sending Roberts up the middle more often before yesterday then you might have given an even better account of yourself with some practice at it.

I have nothing but admiration for the rugby skill of the All Blacks. But even with McCaw gone, they continue to play with cynicism on the edges of the laws and beyond. There were several occasions when ABs were grappling with Welsh players on the Welsh side of the gain line and well away from the ball to keep them away from the play. They also continue to march opposition players who are close to, but not part of the ruck, backwards to a point well behind the gain line and then hold them there. This off-the-ball stuff is illegal and blatant, you can't tackle a man without the ball,but they keep getting away with it. I believe this is coached as a deliberate part of the game plan.
I'd like to see Barnes (and other refs) less concerned with being so matey with the players and more about doing their job. In this respect they could begin by not calling the players by their christian names, stick to the number on their shirt and maintain some arm's length distance between players and officials. They are there to run the game fairly and not to behave like yer favourite uncle.

Spiffy wrote:I have nothing but admiration for the rugby skill of the All Blacks. But even with McCaw gone, they continue to play with cynicism on the edges of the laws and beyond. There were several occasions when ABs were grappling with Welsh players on the Welsh side of the gain line and well away from the ball to keep them away from the play. They also continue to march opposition players who are close to, but not part of the ruck, backwards to a point well behind the gain line and then hold them there. This off-the-ball stuff is illegal and blatant, you can't tackle a man without the ball,but they keep getting away with it. I believe this is coached as a deliberate part of the game plan.
I'd like to see Barnes (and other refs) less concerned with being so matey with the players and more about doing their job. In this respect they could begin by not calling the players by their christian names, stick to the number on their shirt and maintain some arm's length distance between players and officials. They are there to run the game fairly and not to behave like yer favourite uncle.

So did you entirly fail to see AWJ do the same? or see it in every single international team including ours?

I'd be delighted for holding to be generally penalised but it isn't. claiming that the ABs are the only team who do it or the worst offenders is just stupid.

Eugene Wrayburn wrote:

Spiffy wrote:I have nothing but admiration for the rugby skill of the All Blacks. But even with McCaw gone, they continue to play with cynicism on the edges of the laws and beyond. There were several occasions when ABs were grappling with Welsh players on the Welsh side of the gain line and well away from the ball to keep them away from the play. They also continue to march opposition players who are close to, but not part of the ruck, backwards to a point well behind the gain line and then hold them there. This off-the-ball stuff is illegal and blatant, you can't tackle a man without the ball,but they keep getting away with it. I believe this is coached as a deliberate part of the game plan.
I'd like to see Barnes (and other refs) less concerned with being so matey with the players and more about doing their job. In this respect they could begin by not calling the players by their christian names, stick to the number on their shirt and maintain some arm's length distance between players and officials. They are there to run the game fairly and not to behave like yer favourite uncle.

So did you entirly fail to see AWJ do the same? or see it in every single international team including ours?

I'd be delighted for holding to be generally penalised but it isn't. claiming that the ABs are the only team who do it or the worst offenders is just stupid.

I do think they are the worst offenders. They are more subtle at it than anyone else, though it's still quite obvious to most keen observers, except their best friend - the ref (and possibly you). Clearing out people off the ball is an art form with them, which I feel they have carefully developed more than any other team and have built into their game plan. You may not see it that way, but that's just a different opinion, which is the basis for discussion on these boards.

Calling my opinion stupid really does not prove your point at all.

Here's another bright point for you.

Saturday's game was the first time a visiting team had been ahead of the All Blacks at half time at Eden Park since Australia blew a 13-10 lead in 2009.

Eugene Wrayburn wrote:On substitutions they have a lot more data than we do so i personally have stopped criticising them.

If a mere lack of data were to stop criticism I'd have to stop posting

The score wasn't a true reflection of the first 65 minutes of the game. unfortunately it ewas a very true reflection of the last 15 minutes and it's an 80 minutes game. Having said that, Wales gave a good account of themselves. If they tried to attack by means other than sending Roberts up the middle more often before yesterday then you might have given an even better account of yourself with some practice at it.

A true reflection of the last 15 minutes would have been 80-0 . But seriously, we can always say that the score was a fair reflection of the game coz that's what was scored in the game. If we don't take that line though, IMO it was just that annoying last minute try that spoiled it - 32-21 would have been a fair score for that match.

I thought the ref was quite even handed, the one thing that irked me was his inability to notice the AB's blocking of our players from box kicks, it was so blatant surely one of officials should have picked it up.