RugbyRebels

francoisfou wrote: ↑Thu May 01, 2025 3:57 pm

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Thu May 01, 2025 3:11 pm
Kpoku is an interesting one I’d forgotten about. Is he on his way back to England? Is he deserving of more than the promise/potential spot as fourth choice at the moment?

Rugby Pass reported back in March that Jr Kpoku is due to leave Racing at the end of the season and that Sale would be his likely destination, so he could be on the short list for Argentina.

Puja wrote: ↑Thu May 01, 2025 7:40 pm

francoisfou wrote: ↑Thu May 01, 2025 3:57 pm

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Thu May 01, 2025 3:11 pm
Kpoku is an interesting one I’d forgotten about. Is he on his way back to England? Is he deserving of more than the promise/potential spot as fourth choice at the moment?

Rugby Pass reported back in March that Jr Kpoku is due to leave Racing at the end of the season and that Sale would be his likely destination, so he could be on the short list for Argentina.

If that's true and he's available to select, then I would be very interested in seeing him travel - he's not the finished article yet, but he's not far off being a genuine international option and I'd be interested to have him stacked up against Coles/Clark/CCS et al and either seeing where he has to improve or stepping up in training and forcing his way into the team.

Certainly seems of more development use going forwards than selecting Isiekwe again.

Puja

Captainhaircut wrote: ↑Thu May 01, 2025 1:15 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu May 01, 2025 11:54 am

Captainhaircut wrote: ↑Thu May 01, 2025 9:45 am Coles drives me mad- someone with his size, athleticism and brain should be dominating. Regularly doesn’t impact games in the way he should.

Isiekwe is another of that ilk- he was very m, very effective in the lineout against Gloucs the other week though and with no Itoje and Chessum plus possibly no natural jumper in the back row, I could definitely see him being in the mix.

With the potential for an inexperienced side, I could see a scenario where Ewels and Isiekwe start in the row with Clark and CCS on the bench.

Saints don't really play in a way that sees forwards 'dominating' (whatever that really means) and have also been struggling. He's also been out a lot of the season. mind, as said before he's not really that kind of player anyway.

Dominating a bad word I guess- very vague.

To be clear, I’ve never seen him put in any kind of standout performance in any facet of the game. Never looked at him and thought he was big in defence in the way I might George Martin, never seen him take a lineout apart like Isiekwe did the other week, never seen him put in a big carrying performance. He runs decent lines for his size but nothing else I can really see that makes him stand out.

I’d definitely be skipping right over him and going to Clark, Lockett, Sodeke, Kpoku.

FKAS wrote: ↑Thu May 01, 2025 2:23 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu May 01, 2025 11:54 am

Captainhaircut wrote: ↑Thu May 01, 2025 9:45 am Coles drives me mad- someone with his size, athleticism and brain should be dominating. Regularly doesn’t impact games in the way he should.

Isiekwe is another of that ilk- he was very m, very effective in the lineout against Gloucs the other week though and with no Itoje and Chessum plus possibly no natural jumper in the back row, I could definitely see him being in the mix.

With the potential for an inexperienced side, I could see a scenario where Ewels and Isiekwe start in the row with Clark and CCS on the bench.

Saints don't really play in a way that sees forwards 'dominating' (whatever that really means) and have also been struggling. He's also been out a lot of the season. mind, as said before he's not really that kind of player anyway.

I take dominating to mean dominant tackles and carries over the gain line. He gets over the gain line through good lines rather than pure brutality which I don't have a problem with. It would be helpful if he could offer the option to batter his way over but good lines offer us options. In defence he's not one for big crunching tackles. Lawes always managed those at Saints but not really Coles area of strength though it is worth noting that he rarely misses a tackle it's just they aren't dominant tackles.

Oakboy wrote: ↑Thu May 01, 2025 3:26 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu May 01, 2025 11:55 am

Oakboy wrote: ↑Thu May 01, 2025 10:03 am

Interesting question. Would the current Newcastle or Exeter teams beat our under-20 international team?

yes, by quite a lot.

We managed to put 30 points on them, and neither of those two teams would ship as many points as we did.

Interesting. Was that pre or post 6N?

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu May 01, 2025 10:17 pm

Oakboy wrote: ↑Thu May 01, 2025 3:26 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu May 01, 2025 11:55 am
yes, by quite a lot.

We managed to put 30 points on them, and neither of those two teams would ship as many points as we did.

Interesting. Was that pre or post 6N?

pre, full strength, straight out of training camp on ultra quick 4g surface. We struggled in the backs, but had a big edge at set piece and mauls. Not surprising, at 18/19 still developing physically.

Oakboy wrote: ↑Fri May 02, 2025 8:40 am

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu May 01, 2025 10:17 pm

Oakboy wrote: ↑Thu May 01, 2025 3:26 pm

Interesting. Was that pre or post 6N?

pre, full strength, straight out of training camp on ultra quick 4g surface. We struggled in the backs, but had a big edge at set piece and mauls. Not surprising, at 18/19 still developing physically.

Fascinating, thanks. If you could have had free access to any of them for your first XV how many would you have wanted? I'm just trying to understand the norm v exceptional. For example, would Pollock be an absolute exception compared with, say, Kpoku and Burrow? Or, would you only want backs?

Scrumhead wrote: ↑Thu May 01, 2025 4:50 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Thu May 01, 2025 8:52 am

Oakboy wrote: ↑Thu May 01, 2025 8:28 am It's strange to talk of a recall for the likes of Ewels but not mention two dominant locks in our under-20 team. Yes, it's impractical to select them to start based on lack of premiership game time but what would be so daft about taking one or both for experience off the bench?

So the senior players aren't good enough but the young guys who can't get game time because of the average senior players are?

I'm guessing we'll take four locks plus Ted Hill and CCS. I'd probably go for;

Coles - regular in the squad anyway, mobile and decent at the lineout. Lacks a bit of physicality but that seems to be a mindset /technique thing as he's got the size. Runs good lines (better than most forwards).

Arthur Clark - been in training squads, big lad and seems capable for Glaws. Let's see if he can make the step up. If he can hold down the tighthead lock berth he starts alongside Coles.

Joe Owen - break out season with Bristol. Tall rangey lock. Got some pace, seems good at the lineout. Understudy to Coles. This spot could also go to Tom Lockett who played well for the England A side.

Fourth choice is the tough one as you then need another lock capable of doing the tighthead role and ideally adding some more leadership. Ewels the likely option though he has repeatedly blown his chances with England he is supposed to be a good mentor in camp. Batley if fit might be a better option than Ewels, robust carrying game would certainly help add impact off the bench potentially.

Coles is mid twenties but Lockett/Clark/Owen are around 23ish iirc. Good age range to build off there.

This is pretty much where I’m at.

I really like the look of Owen but given he’s not yet made an A squad, I think it’s a bit of a leap for him to make this tour. England have shown interest in Batley so if he’s fit, I’d give him a better chance. I’m not sure why James Dun seems to be so far off the radar? No-one ever mentions him but I think he’s a very underrated player.

I would imagine Coles and Clark are inked in and Isiekwe will take one of the other spots. Lockett vs. Tizard the other. Maybe Munga?

Danno wrote: ↑Fri May 02, 2025 10:38 am Think he was injured for a chunk of the season and outside that he simply hasn't kicked on. He's dead to me anyway.

Danno wrote: ↑Fri May 02, 2025 10:38 am Think he was injured for a chunk of the season and outside that he simply hasn't kicked on. He's dead to me anyway.

TheNomad wrote: ↑Sat May 03, 2025 7:19 am I see in an interview, Stewars has said he’s been happy to try playing at 12….

If he’d focused on playing there when younger, I think he’d have been great. Unclear how good he’s been now. You can see why people are calling for it, but there are big question marks, and credible alternatives now

Scrumhead wrote: ↑Sat May 03, 2025 8:13 am I’m not totally against seeing him at 12 but I’d much rather we use the opportunities we have for Atkinson or Woodward.

As it stands, we’re going to be light on fullbacks and I’d prefer to see Steward and Marcus Smith in their regular positions rather than possibly shifting both around.

A bit like Barbarians games in the past, the England XV game won’t feature anyone from this season’s top 4. Tigers are looking odds on to be involved so the USA game would probably be the only opportunity.

p/d wrote: ↑Sat May 03, 2025 9:31 am Freddie should have been given a go at 12 a season or so back. It was the perfect opportunity rather than plugging the midfield hole with Slade.

Still think he would excel there, but what do i know.

p/d wrote: ↑Sat May 03, 2025 9:31 am Freddie should have been given a go at 12 a season or so back. It was the perfect opportunity rather than plugging the midfield hole with Slade.

Still think he would excel there, but what do i know.

Oakboy wrote: ↑Sat May 03, 2025 12:40 pm

p/d wrote: ↑Sat May 03, 2025 9:31 am Freddie should have been given a go at 12 a season or so back. It was the perfect opportunity rather than plugging the midfield hole with Slade.

Still think he would excel there, but what do i know.

Let's give you one pick for the 12 shirt. Steward or Atkinson?

p/d wrote: ↑Sat May 03, 2025 2:01 pm

Oakboy wrote: ↑Sat May 03, 2025 12:40 pm

p/d wrote: ↑Sat May 03, 2025 9:31 am Freddie should have been given a go at 12 a season or so back. It was the perfect opportunity rather than plugging the midfield hole with Slade.

Still think he would excel there, but what do i know.

Let's give you one pick for the 12 shirt. Steward or Atkinson?

Seb has been the most consistent quality 12, even when at Wuss. Not sure if he can show much more. Either they like him or they don’t.
Steward has been in camp and has the test credentials at fb. However I think his strengths would suit 12 and his presumed weaknesses less, well, of a weakness.

Is that good enough?