RugbyRebels

Zhivago wrote:

Digby wrote:All parties are to some degree self serving as they need to rally around some core principles and ignore some differences on many issues. But the Tories aren't tearing themselves apart as a party and voting en masse against their own leadership because they're self serving to the party

True, the Conservatives are much more self serving in an individual sense.

You mean like a party leader saying he'd be guided by the members and then flat out ignoring them, that sort of individuality? Or is that okay as the Glorious Leader has only had to lie in servitude to the greater good?

My sincere apologies as I of course meant to say, Glorious Leader™

Digby wrote:

Zhivago wrote:

Digby wrote:All parties are to some degree self serving as they need to rally around some core principles and ignore some differences on many issues. But the Tories aren't tearing themselves apart as a party and voting en masse against their own leadership because they're self serving to the party

True, the Conservatives are much more self serving in an individual sense.

You mean like a party leader saying he'd be guided by the members and then flat out ignoring them, that sort of individuality? Or is that okay as the Glorious Leader has only had to lie in servitude to the greater good?

He's a representative, not a delegate. They will get to the second referendum as a last resort. It is a divisive course though.

Umunna and Soubry meeting May today.......

Mellsblue wrote:Umunna and Soubry meeting May today.......

Which is fine but at odds with also reaching out to the DUP and ERG which seems to be what several cabinet members gleaned over the weekend

May does remind me a lot of Major, well meaning but indicating to too many different factions she's on their side which obviously can't be delivered on

Digby wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:Umunna and Soubry meeting May today.......

Which is fine but at odds with also reaching out to the DUP and ERG which seems to be what several cabinet members gleaned over the weekend

May does remind me a lot of Major, well meaning but indicating to too many different factions she's on their side which obviously can't be delivered on

Surely the whole point of this exercise is to talk to all the different groupings to try and find consensus. Well, maybe not consensus but, rather, 326 votes.

In a positive move, Labour have stopped asking for their cake from the pudding trolley and have taken the test that Brexit must provide the exact same benefits as being a member of the EU off the table.

Mellsblue wrote:In a positive move, Labour have stopped asking for their cake from the pudding trolley and have taken the test that Brexit must provide the exact same benefits as being a member of the EU off the table.

They had to so Corbyn could say it's worth voting for

Ugh. You guys still haven’t worked this all out?

Mikey Brown wrote:Ugh. You guys still haven’t worked this all out?

Well no, I doubt anyone knows what will happen

Digby wrote:

Mikey Brown wrote:Ugh. You guys still haven’t worked this all out?

Well no, I doubt anyone knows what will happen

If it's not doable in 1800 posts on a rugby forum then we should clearly just give up with the whole thing. Reading the first few post on this thread is quite entertaining now.

Or depressing. I'm not sure which.

Mikey Brown wrote:

Digby wrote:

Mikey Brown wrote:Ugh. You guys still haven’t worked this all out?

Well no, I doubt anyone knows what will happen

If it's not doable in 1800 posts on a rugby forum then we should clearly just give up with the whole thing. Reading the first few post on this thread is quite entertaining now.

Or depressing. I'm not sure which.

I've just gone and read the first page. Oh, those sweet summer days!

Puja

I happened across the first page a while back, Eugene noting groups might be citing the will of the people I seem to recall, thank feck that never happened

They all know with absolute certainty what ought to be done, the problem is they cant agree on precisely what that is in order for the EU to reject it out of hand

very useful explainer of what next week in Parliament holds - http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2019/01 ... his-is-wha

Still no confirmation article 50 is getting delayed, and as I understand for a while now if today (or for a while) we accepted no deal or voted to accept May's deal we wouldn't have time for parliament to vote all the necessary legislation anyway. So either they might as well admit we have to change the time remaining or we have to accept parliament would have to vote on hundreds of items without ever looking at them and certainly without debate or amendment

Maybe they'd get it done with vast use of the sunset clause? But given the process would anyone trust the executive wouldn't slip in god only know what?

Digby wrote:Still no confirmation article 50 is getting delayed, and as I understand for a while now if today (or for a while) we accepted no deal or voted to accept May's deal we wouldn't have time for parliament to vote all the necessary legislation anyway. So either they might as well admit we have to change the time remaining or we have to accept parliament would have to vote on hundreds of items without ever looking at them and certainly without debate or amendment

Maybe they'd get it done with vast use of the sunset clause? But given the process would anyone trust the executive wouldn't slip in god only know what?

Read a good article that basically said the two amendments from Cooper and Grieve work together to almost ensure the power rests with parliament and that they can extend article 50.

Stom wrote:

Digby wrote:Still no confirmation article 50 is getting delayed, and as I understand for a while now if today (or for a while) we accepted no deal or voted to accept May's deal we wouldn't have time for parliament to vote all the necessary legislation anyway. So either they might as well admit we have to change the time remaining or we have to accept parliament would have to vote on hundreds of items without ever looking at them and certainly without debate or amendment

Maybe they'd get it done with vast use of the sunset clause? But given the process would anyone trust the executive wouldn't slip in god only know what?

Read a good article that basically said the two amendments from Cooper and Grieve work together to almost ensure the power rests with parliament and that they can extend article 50.

If they pass. As we saw with the upskirt legislation it's very easy to disrupt legislation not backed by government time, though perhaps I do brexiters a disservice, this is about restoring the sovereignty of parliament so perish the thought they disrupt or talk out a private bill

If the votes go the way of Cooper and Grieve it's quite likely John Bercow will be the story, if Bercow can find it within himself to be the centre of attention

The mental gymnastics involved in brexit supporters defending dyson moving to singapore is some thing to behold. At what point will the penny drop? It's just getting embarrassing now.

twitchy wrote:The mental gymnastics involved in brexit supporters defending dyson moving to singapore is some thing to behold. At what point will the penny drop? It's just getting embarrassing now.

Well indeed. Who's left of the Brexit backers?

Stom wrote:

twitchy wrote:The mental gymnastics involved in brexit supporters defending dyson moving to singapore is some thing to behold. At what point will the penny drop? It's just getting embarrassing now.

Well indeed. Who's left of the Brexit backers?

Weatherspoon like Dyson was pro brexit so bollocks to them, and a well known fraudulent coffee chain

Martin's been doing a tour of his pubs, holding public meetings to barrack for No Deal. Given that, unlike Dyson and Rees-Mogg, he can't really move his business overseas, you can only conclude that he's a true believer. And, you know, strikingly gullible.

Puja

So JRM has been saying today that if parliament tries to block no deal, May should cancel Parliament...