Ire - Eng Match Thread

[Mellsblue]

After that performance they’ve all got the shirt to lose. That said, I’ll reserve judgement on the backs until they have to sit on a futon rather than a chesterfield armchair. Id also rather have Ford and Joseph over Farrell and Slade, but if we’re stuck with Farrell I’d stick with Slade. Sadly, I think the backs will spend more time on futons and we’ll end up with Farrell - Te’o - Tuilagi.

[Banquo]

Yep, I'd not lock Slade in over JJ just yet. Would like to keep Manu where he was. Would stick with Farrell at 10 for now too.

Eddie said he saw Manu as a 12 when he started, and I agree, especially in this team. A go forward 12 is just the ticket imo, and even more so if Ford is playing....but Faz is going nowhere, and was ok today to be fair when playing off the game plan play-sheet. However, we won't always have the luxury of the half backs making a horlicks of good turnover/unexpectedly quick ball.

But bu55er that was a good win, with good strategy and great tight defence underpinning it.

[Banquo]

After that performance they’ve all got the shirt to lose. That said, I’ll reserve judgement on the backs until they have to sit on a futon rather than a chesterfield armchair. Id also rather have Ford and Joseph over Farrell and Slade, but if we’re stuck with Farrell I’d stick with Slade. Sadly, I think the backs will spend more time on futons and we’ll end up with Farrell - Te’o - Tuilagi.

In fairness, it wasn't that much of an armchair for the backs, we had a lot less possession and they had to work moderately hard in defence on the ground, where Manu was excellent, and in the air where May was nothing short of great and Daly not so much.

Agreed they have all earned the next start- though suspect Itoje will be out. Backrow was a hit for me as well.

[WaspInWales]

Was Cian Healy's try a try?

Just watched the highlights and there's a hand under the ball and it's not his.



Surprised it didn't get checked but the linesman called it as Garces wasn't in a position to see it.

[twitchy]

[Epaminondas Pules]

Sinks is getting very good at winding people up. There a nice bit just after when an England player comes to calm Kyle down. And he just replies that he knows what he’s doing.

[WaspInWales]

That was bloody excellent!

Almost worthy of a motm display.

[Mellsblue]

I liked the bit when Garces warned him a bit earlier in his match and Sinckler responded with something along the lines of “I’m sorry, sir, I’m just very excited. Just tell me when to shut up.” The apprentice has become the master.

[morepork]

Good win that. The coach actually had a game plan and a fair few players played heads up. Look a different dam team some natural loosies in the mix. Won despite 9 and 10 being hopeless pivots.

[Puja]

Was Cian Healy's try a try?

Just watched the highlights and there's a hand under the ball and it's not his.



Surprised it didn't get checked but the linesman called it as Garces wasn't in a position to see it.

I noticed that on the replay too - Mako always had his hand under the ball and there's a very good case that none of it touched the ground. Plus, the only other time where Garces didn't feel the need to call for the bloody TMO was when he yellow carded Curry for "pooting the shaulder een" when it was clearly a legal (if late) challenge and therefore not remotely a yellow.

However, Garces is always going to be a homer and a bit of a challenge, so it could've been a lot worse. And we mustn't grumble too much. I think he was right on disallowing Mako's try myself - I'm mostly annoyed that we had a penalty advantage, the Irish defence had been drawn in tight and swinging it wide would've given us a 1-on-1 with loads of room, and we still picked and went into the massed green tacklers. A mark down for Youngs that - he should've been screaming for the forwards to leave it the minute that the ref called advantage.

I get the feeling that I would utterly hate Sinckler if he played for another team. Always on the windup, always riling people up, but he's got into the knack of remaining completely zen himself and being able to turn it on and off like a tap (which was not true earlier in his career). He looks like he ought to be a liability, but I suspect he does have it all very much under control. Useful talent to have.

Puja

[Oakboy]

Wilson was great. Manu looked really solid at 12 and Slade was efficient although he hasn't brought his club form to the International game yet. If everyone was fit who would you pick at 12 and 13?

After today, surely Slade and Tuilagi have the shirts to lose. If we keep winning why would you change? There were other areas that need more thought.

I'd still have JJ for Slade, especially with our defensive system, but they went better than I thought they would.

I think there needs to be a bit of 'wait and see'.

On the one hand, now that he is finally comfortable in the white shirt, Slade may well improve significantly in terms of his effect on the game.

Conversely, JJ has to get back to top form (i.e. that of 2-3 years ago) before a fair comparison can be made. He may or may not do that.

Slade has superb hands, IMO better ones than JJ. He needs the confidence of being settled in the side to show them to best advantage. JJ, at his best, has better positional nous and defence. The attacking side of his game, though, has been missing in later England games, especially when playing outside Ford and Farrell.

As to which player makes the best partner for Tuilagi with Ford off the scene, who knows? I suspect that Slade will take some shifting in Jones's view.

[Oakboy]

Latish in the 2nd half, just before Ireland got a penalty at a ruck, there was a clear instance of one of the Irish props deliberately grinding his elbow into Lawes's face. It was at the same ruck with Lawes trapped and unable to free his arms to defend himself. I thought it was a clear red card offence and it happened before the Irish penalty.

Anyone else notice it?

[p/d]

Really pleased (and surprised) how well Manu and Slade worked together.

Just pisses me off that using the bench - for no obvious reason as far as I could tell - Jones did his usual of shifting Farrell out one rather than a straight swap with Ford

[Mellsblue]

Stephen Jones’s ratings.......

Elliot Daly 6/10
Wasps
Caps 26 Age 26 Ht 1.84m Wt 98kg
Was not at his most secure, but he has such talents that you can understand why Eddie Jones wants him in the team

Jonny May 8/10
Leicester Tigers
Caps 41 Age 28 Ht 1.86m Wt 92kg
One of the best and most resourceful wings in the game, has added wisdom to his pace

Manu Tuilagi 7/10
Leicester Tigers
Caps 28 Age 27 Ht 1.85m Wt 115kg
Considering that he is short of games, he coped wonderfully and made significant intrusions

Henry Slade 9/10
Exeter Chiefs
Caps 18 Age 25 Ht 1.91m Wt 96kg
A coming of age. Slade had a monumental match in attack and defence. This was how he was always meant to play

Jack Nowell 8/10
Exeter Chiefs
Caps 30 Age 25 Ht 1.8m Wt 98kg
The Chief is one of a kind. He is not the biggest but the first defender rarely tackles him, and he can play in all parts of the field

Owen Farrell 9/10
Saracens
Caps 66 Age 27 Ht 1.86m Wt 96kg
Forget the kicks that he missed, he easily outshone Johnny Sexton. Just indomitable and almost perfect in execution

Ben Youngs 7/10
Leicester Tigers
Caps 81 Age 29 Ht 1.78m Wt 92kg
His box-kicking was off-beam but to his credit he made the most of what came his way

Mako Vunipola 10/10
Saracens
Caps 53 Age 28 Ht 1.8m Wt 121kg
Joined the top class of scrummagers, workrate was unbelievable. His greatest game

Jamie George 7/10
Saracens
Caps 33 Age 28 Ht 1.83m Wt 113kg
One of the fringe England players who may have cemented themselves into the team. Quick and belligerent

Kyle Sinckler 7/10
Harlequins
Caps 18 Age 25 Ht 1.79m Wt 120kg
He is coming through with every game, rock-solid up front and always involved in the loose play. The bonus of the season

Maro Itoje 8/10
Saracens
Caps 27 Age 24 Ht 1.95m Wt 115kg
England did well to bear the burden of his departure with injury. There will be fervent prayers for a quick recovery

George Kruis 8/10
Saracens
Caps 28 Age 28 Ht 1.99m Wt 115kg
One of his better games for England. Teeth bared, he was all over the park and his lineout was almost immaculate

Mark Wilson 7/10
Newcastle Falcons
Caps 9 Age 29 Ht 1.91m Wt 112kg
Newcastle’s finest continues to look entirely at home in the international arena

Tom Curry 7/10
Sale Sharks
Caps 6 Age 20 Ht 1.85m Wt 106kg
Showed his inexperience with a silly tackle leading to a yellow card, but it was noticeable he stayed the course thereafter

Billy Vunipola 7/10
Saracens
Caps 37 Age 26 Ht 1.88m Wt 130kg
Probably still short of a yard, but he is going to get better as this season progresses. He was a significant factor

[p/d]

So Curry get’s marked down for his yellow whilst Farrell’s missed kicks and kicking out on the full are discounted

[Oakboy]

How does Kruis rate higher than the three backrowers?

[fivepointer]

"Forget the kicks that he missed, he easily outshone Johnny Sexton. Just indomitable and almost perfect in execution"

Almost perfect.....

To be fair i thought Farrell was very good. He led the side well and contributed fully to the win, but some of the comments around him are just ludicrous.

[twitchy]

Not sure if this was discussed but ireland's first try wasn't even close to being grounded. No tmo

.

[Banquo]

Sinks is getting very good at winding people up. There a nice bit just after when an England player comes to calm Kyle down. And he just replies that he knows what he’s doing.

POM was being a whiny to55er I reckon . Bit of a diver for a hard man

[Banquo]

Good win that. The coach actually had a game plan and a fair few players played heads up. Look a different dam team some natural loosies in the mix. Won despite 9 and 10 being hopeless pivots.

Not quite hopeless, but I agree pretty average. Totally agree on loose forwards, and pack generally playing smartly after the first 20 minutes of lunacy.

[Shiny]

It’s nice not to be talking about Fazlet and his tackling technique. Has he been told to wind it in a bit?

[Banquo]

After today, surely Slade and Tuilagi have the shirts to lose. If we keep winning why would you change? There were other areas that need more thought.

I'd still have JJ for Slade, especially with our defensive system, but they went better than I thought they would.

I think there needs to be a bit of 'wait and see'.

On the one hand, now that he is finally comfortable in the white shirt, Slade may well improve significantly in terms of his effect on the game.

Conversely, JJ has to get back to top form (i.e. that of 2-3 years ago) before a fair comparison can be made. He may or may not do that.

Slade has superb hands, IMO better ones than JJ. He needs the confidence of being settled in the side to show them to best advantage. JJ, at his best, has better positional nous and defence. The attacking side of his game, though, has been missing in later England games, especially when playing outside Ford and Farrell.

As to which player makes the best partner for Tuilagi with Ford off the scene, who knows? I suspect that Slade will take some shifting in Jones's view.

Agree mainly, though JJ's pace is a huge asset assuming its used, and the system we now have needs pace from 13. Personally I think EJ will be looking to get Teo in, as imo he doesnt wholly trust either Slade or JJ. If so, I will cry.

[Banquo]

Really pleased (and surprised) how well Manu and Slade worked together.

Just pisses me off that using the bench - for no obvious reason as far as I could tell - Jones did his usual of shifting Farrell out one rather than a straight swap with Ford

He took Manu off to protect him, which was sensible, and he'd already played 70 minutes.

[WaspInWales]

Not sure if this was discussed but ireland's first try wasn't even close to being grounded. No tmo

.

Yep...

http://www.rugbyrebels.co/board/viewtop ... cd#p161991

Well dodgy, but that is thanks to the tj as he was standing right there and gave Garces the ok.

Had that been England, Garces would've found a reason to take that upstairs.

It ultimately didn't matter, but imagine if that was a close game and that score affected the outcome.

[WaspInWales]

I'm just pleased Billy and Manu got through uninjured. Was expecting both to go off early which would then be followed by a catalogue of mistakes, injuries and players out of position.

Must try to be more positive