RugbyRebels

Stom wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Puja wrote:I've got one upside - Te'o and Tuilagi at least has the merit of taking the pressure off Manu to be the number 1 bosh man in tight and lets him run at outside shoulders where he's actually effective.

Puja

Manu has been effective imo at 12 for England, when given the ball.

Oh yes, the 0.66 times per game he gets it...

hence saying 'when given the ball'

I can only assume that Eddie is about to be appointed to May's cabinet, such is the quality of his decision making.

Italy at home and he puts out THAT team? I mean WTAF?

The only idea I'm clinging to is Youngs, Fazlet and Teo coming off at half time and Robson, Ford and Slade coming on at 9,10 and 13, with Manu at 12. Think I'm gonna need to up my medication.

'Big is best' appears to be the thinking.
There will be a hefty onus on the play-maker captain and also Daly to play some Rugby between the lengthy periods of thud and blunder.Can't see them keeping it up somehow.

from the Beeb:
Faz: "It's massive - I wouldn't like to play against it, 
We need to make sure those boys get in the game..."
"He's massive, he's very quick, he's got brilliant skills and he's brilliant in the air," Farrell said of the 6ft 3in 18-stone back.( Coka)"

Head coach Jones added: "It's something different for us - over the last four years we have had fairly small backlines."

Mikey Brown wrote:Sounds slightly like someone putting words in his mouth, but I struggle to think how Ford would be worse.

Youngs often passes very well in open play, and often (consistently you might say) passes atrociously off the floor so maybe that's a consideration, but Ford is just so much more talented with the timing and accuracy of his passing.

Poor Robson though if that actually were to happen. What could he possibly have done that would get him a legitimate shot?

Are you serious?

Interesting to see how this game goes if Italy can avoid an arm-wrestle with the England pack. In their last game, against Ireland, the Italian backs looked full of running with good gas and passing skills. Centres Moresi and Campagnola are small men compared with Teo/Tuilagi but are quite a tough pair in defence, as well as being dangerous runners. Thrown in an attacking FB and two pacy wings, and Italy will be keen to keep this fast and loose. Half backs Tebaldi/Allen looked quite composed against Ireland too, Tebaldi had a particularly good game and was MOTM for me. Nobody gives Italy a hope in hell and they will probably get humped by a big score (which will prove nothing to Jones or the fans) so they might as well throw caution to the wind and run everything. The problem will be getting some ball.

Spiffy wrote:Interesting to see how this game goes if Italy can avoid an arm-wrestle with the England pack. In their last game, against Ireland, the Italian backs looked full of running with good gas and passing skills. Centres Moresi and Campagnola are small men compared with Teo/Tuilagi but are quite a tough pair in defence, as well as being dangerous runners. Thrown in an attacking FB and two pacy wings, and Italy will be keen to keep this fast and loose. Half backs Tebaldi/Allen looked quite composed against Ireland too, Tebaldi had a particularly good game and was MOTM for me. Nobody gives Italy a hope in hell and they will probably get humped by a big score (which will prove nothing to Jones or the fans) so they might as well throw caution to the wind and run everything. The problem will be getting some ball.

They played well v Ireland for most of the game. But it was a poor performance by a mixed Ireland XV.

Its a profoundly disappointing selection; Eddie has lucked on a pack who are capable of supporting more ambition in our game, but doesn't trust the players to do it.

If Italy can keep their discipline, I'd watch out. They might take it to you more than you think. And those two Italian centres may not be BIG, but they are hard enough as well as capable of breaking a defensive line.

I hate this line up. Eddie can f#ck right off.

Campagnaro and Morisi to give them the respect of their correct names are both good players who could cause our one dimensional back line a problem or two. I kind of hope they do.

Scrumhead wrote:I hate this line up. Eddie can f#ck right off.

Campagnaro and Morisi to give them the respect of their correct names are both good players who could cause our one dimensional back line a problem or two. I kind of hope they do.

Good call.

Campagnaro is a very fine player. Italy do have a few others but overall their side is really short of 4/5 international class performers.
We may not like this England side, but it should be easily good enough to win by 2 or 3 scores.
I'm not sure what that is likely to tell us about how this side moves forward. My fear is that a resounding win would see that midfield cemented, and that the dropped players - Slade and Wilson who have gone well - would be sidelined.
Quite what the plan is for Robson to get meaningful game time is anyone's guess.

I'm still intrigued by what happens if one of the back three goes off injured. If it's May or Coka, presumably Daly moves to the wing, so, whatever happens, we have to find a FB. I wonder who is practising that role in training. Slade is the obvious choice but it could be Ford or Farrell perhaps. From an interest point of view I hope it happens in the first minute.

If Italy can't furk up this grotesque team selection by Jones, I hope fate steps in nice and early.

Hadn’t really clocked that. It has to be Slade out of those 3 you mentioned. Though Hughes/Shields have recently added a lot of flexibility to their games so I wouldn’t rule them out.

fivepointer wrote:Campagnaro is a very fine player. Italy do have a few others but overall their side is really short of 4/5 international class performers.
We may not like this England side, but it should be easily good enough to win by 2 or 3 scores.
I'm not sure what that is likely to tell us about how this side moves forward. My fear is that a resounding win would see that midfield cemented, and that the dropped players - Slade and Wilson who have gone well - would be sidelined.
Quite what the plan is for Robson to get meaningful game time is anyone's guess.

I know Campagnaro has been injured a fair bit, but I'm a big fan and amazed that Chiefs didn't get much out of him.

Mikey Brown wrote:Hadn’t really clocked that. It has to be Slade out of those 3 you mentioned. Though Hughes/Shields have recently added a lot of flexibility to their games so I wouldn’t rule them out.

Remember the last time we were in a World Cup year and we had that attacking midfield for the 6N in which Joseph was top try scorer, Ford was top points scorer and we looked really dangerous with ball in hand, only to revert to Farrell - Burgess - Barritt when it came to the crunch? I do, and thank goodness Jones has the foresight to incrementally move towards stodge rather than just throw it all together at the last minute. The guy is a coaching genius.

Thing is, I don't instinctively hate that midfield. Manu has shown he's capable of some half decent passes. Teo perhaps hasn't, but he can offload, and run lines effectively. Daly joining the line at first or second receiver when it's on wider, or supporting Manu as he goes on a run etc.

I just don't think Farrell is capable of using it properly.

Size and power may be a little one dimensional, but it can certainly help a lot, as was shown when we had 3 proper carriers in the pack.

Raggs wrote:Thing is, I don't instinctively hate that midfield. Manu has shown he's capable of some half decent passes. Teo perhaps hasn't, but he can offload, and run lines effectively. Daly joining the line at first or second receiver when it's on wider, or supporting Manu as he goes on a run etc.

I just don't think Farrell is capable of using it properly.

Size and power may be a little one dimensional, but it can certainly help a lot, as was shown when we had 3 proper carriers in the pack.

I just think it's crap.

You need guile in midfield: the wit to spot the gap and the agility to get through it. Te'o has none of that. Manu does, but Te'o doesn't and Farrell only gets through gaps the size of the windup he has on left to right passes!

Stom wrote:

Raggs wrote:Thing is, I don't instinctively hate that midfield. Manu has shown he's capable of some half decent passes. Teo perhaps hasn't, but he can offload, and run lines effectively. Daly joining the line at first or second receiver when it's on wider, or supporting Manu as he goes on a run etc.

I just don't think Farrell is capable of using it properly.

Size and power may be a little one dimensional, but it can certainly help a lot, as was shown when we had 3 proper carriers in the pack.

I just think it's crap.

You need guile in midfield: the wit to spot the gap and the agility to get through it. Te'o has none of that. Manu does, but Te'o doesn't and Farrell only gets through gaps the size of the windup he has on left to right passes!

As I said, Farrell doesn't work well with it I feel (unless we're just doing 1 out off 9 to a forward, 1 out of 10 to teo/manu/coka).

With Ford and Daly, you can work round Teo's limitations fairly easily.

Is T'eo as physically impressive as some imply? He's not that much heavier than Slade or Joseph and he's slower than either. What's left - merely the ability to offload quite well?

Raggs wrote:Thing is, I don't instinctively hate that midfield. Manu has shown he's capable of some half decent passes. Teo perhaps hasn't, but he can offload, and run lines effectively. Daly joining the line at first or second receiver when it's on wider, or supporting Manu as he goes on a run etc.

I just don't think Farrell is capable of using it properly.

Size and power may be a little one dimensional, but it can certainly help a lot, as was shown when we had 3 proper carriers in the pack.

LOL. The bar has been set. Tuilagi is taking over the playmaker role that Slade was doing then, which, weirdly enough, meant running dummy lines for the lump at 12 to then distribute.

It's like Jones had a few different combos/strategies for midfield pairings but somewhere along the way they got muddled up and nobody has ever called him out on it.

Oakboy wrote:Is T'eo as physically impressive as some imply? He's not that much heavier than Slade or Joseph and he's slower than either. What's left - merely the ability to offload quite well?

A) He's a Kiwi
B) He's a former RL international

Ergo: he's a superstar!

Raggs wrote:

Stom wrote:

Raggs wrote:Thing is, I don't instinctively hate that midfield. Manu has shown he's capable of some half decent passes. Teo perhaps hasn't, but he can offload, and run lines effectively. Daly joining the line at first or second receiver when it's on wider, or supporting Manu as he goes on a run etc.

I just don't think Farrell is capable of using it properly.

Size and power may be a little one dimensional, but it can certainly help a lot, as was shown when we had 3 proper carriers in the pack.

I just think it's crap.

You need guile in midfield: the wit to spot the gap and the agility to get through it. Te'o has none of that. Manu does, but Te'o doesn't and Farrell only gets through gaps the size of the windup he has on left to right passes!

As I said, Farrell doesn't work well with it I feel (unless we're just doing 1 out off 9 to a forward, 1 out of 10 to teo/manu/coka).

With Ford and Daly, you can work round Teo's limitations fairly easily.

Isn’t that the crux of it, though. After all, Jones has only swapped one player - Te’o for Slade - but that means it is completely unbalanced and one dimensional. You can’t logical say “I like the centre pairing but only if we changed the 10”. The 10 is the 10 which makes the centre pairing undesirable and unlikeable.

Mellsblue wrote:

Raggs wrote:

Stom wrote:
I just think it's crap.

You need guile in midfield: the wit to spot the gap and the agility to get through it. Te'o has none of that. Manu does, but Te'o doesn't and Farrell only gets through gaps the size of the windup he has on left to right passes!

As I said, Farrell doesn't work well with it I feel (unless we're just doing 1 out off 9 to a forward, 1 out of 10 to teo/manu/coka).

With Ford and Daly, you can work round Teo's limitations fairly easily.

Isn’t that the crux of it, though. After all, Jones has only swapped one player - Te’o for Slade - but that means it is completely unbalanced and one dimensional. You can’t logical say “I like the centre pairing but only if we changed the 10”. The 10 is the 10 which makes the centre pairing undesirable and unlikeable.

Exactly.

Stom wrote:

Oakboy wrote:Is T'eo as physically impressive as some imply? He's not that much heavier than Slade or Joseph and he's slower than either. What's left - merely the ability to offload quite well?

A) He's a Kiwi
B) He's a former RL international

Ergo: he's a superstar!

He's a pretty good 12 when fit and firing. No idea why one would compare him to JJ or Slade, as you'd be asking him to do different things to either of them, and indeed JJ and Slade are themselves markedly different styles. Well, in a sensible world that is, but EJ, who knows.