Team v France

[Which Tyler]

Care and Mako to start for us.

TFFT.
Not that he's much better in the long term (both horrendously inconsistent); but currently miles ahead.

[WaspInWales]

Care and Mako to start for us.

TFFT.
Not that he's much better in the long term (both horrendously inconsistent); but currently miles ahead.

Agree and think that Youngs may be more useful off the bench for the final 10-15 minutes.

I wonder if bench boy has been put on the naughty step so to speak or if it's a tactical change? He's a very lucky boy for a couple of reasons to be playing at all.

[Puja]

Care and Mako to start for us.

TFFT.
Not that he's much better in the long term (both horrendously inconsistent); but currently miles ahead.

Agree and think that Youngs may be more useful off the bench for the final 10-15 minutes.

I wonder if bench boy has been put on the naughty step so to speak or if it's a tactical change? He's a very lucky boy for a couple of reasons to be playing at all.

I would imagine they've been training all week with the assumption that Mako would be starting with Marler unavailable, and his reprieve probably came too late to net him anything but subs bench.

Puja

[WaspInWales]

TFFT.
Not that he's much better in the long term (both horrendously inconsistent); but currently miles ahead.

Agree and think that Youngs may be more useful off the bench for the final 10-15 minutes.

I wonder if bench boy has been put on the naughty step so to speak or if it's a tactical change? He's a very lucky boy for a couple of reasons to be playing at all.

I would imagine they've been training all week with the assumption that Mako would be starting with Marler unavailable, and his reprieve probably came too late to net him anything but subs bench.

Puja

Aye, good point.

[twitchy]

It will be interesting too see how the game plan changes with care. More running less kicking?

[Oakboy]

Care's selection ahead of Youngs suggests that EJ was critical of Youngs's performance against Wales. That rather flies in the face of some pundits' high marks for him.

[Nightynight]

It will be interesting too see how the game plan changes with care. More running less kicking?

The scot's showed running at the French with players busting through is the most effective attack to get them disorganised. Putting care and Mako on suggests we will follow that plan.

[Mellsblue]

TFFT.
Not that he's much better in the long term (both horrendously inconsistent); but currently miles ahead.

Agree and think that Youngs may be more useful off the bench for the final 10-15 minutes.

I wonder if bench boy has been put on the naughty step so to speak or if it's a tactical change? He's a very lucky boy for a couple of reasons to be playing at all.

I would imagine they've been training all week with the assumption that Mako would be starting with Marler unavailable, and his reprieve probably came too late to net him anything but subs bench.

Puja

Supposedly, Marler and Mako have been running pretty much 50/50 as starting LH during this week's training - pretty similar to any week. Also, I'm not really sure how much would change in the final week of a two month period together to make enough of a change in play to warrant dropping a player who missed some training in that final week. I doubt there's many complicated attack moves or defensive patterns thrust on them this week. Hartley has sat out a couple of days training at least but he's starting.

It looks to me that, with both M Rolipola and Care being picked, they will be looking to move the big French pack around the park. Therefore, any marginal selection decisions have gone with the player more suited to that game plan.

[Digby]

Seems very odd to promote Care ahead of Youngs, has just as many problems without as many positives, and too given the link between 9 and 10 isn't quite working another change isn't the obvious step to fix that. But whatever, France look a shambles

[Mikey Brown]

Seems very odd to promote Care ahead of Youngs, has just as many problems without as many positives, and too given the link between 9 and 10 isn't quite working another change isn't the obvious step to fix that. But whatever, France look a shambles

The link at 9 and 10 isn't working because Youngs can't get the ball to Ford in any prompt or useful fashion. I really can't imagine what more evidence you need to see of this?!

Maybe we could go back to using the scrum-half to get the ball out? When Care runs he is so much more dangerous than Youngs anyway. I just hope we try and play a game that actually fits these changes. Youngs is possibly a better option for 9 man rugby, granted, but we actually have some decent backs at the moment. I'd love to see what might happen if we give Ford the chance to use them rather than just kicking and chasing.

[p/d]

Care's selection ahead of Youngs suggests that EJ was critical of Youngs's performance against Wales. That rather flies in the face of some pundits' high marks for him.

If one thing was certain, it was Care starting. He has yo-yo'ed with them both all 6 nations. Load of old bollocks if you ask me. Not sure how good this has been for Ford's game.............Pick one and stick with him ffs!!

[Epaminondas Pules]

Care's selection ahead of Youngs suggests that EJ was critical of Youngs's performance against Wales. That rather flies in the face of some pundits' high marks for him.

Or he's picked players for a particular opponent and game plan.

[Epaminondas Pules]

Seems very odd to promote Care ahead of Youngs, has just as many problems without as many positives, and too given the link between 9 and 10 isn't quite working another change isn't the obvious step to fix that. But whatever, France look a shambles

The link at 9 and 10 isn't working because Youngs can't get the ball to Ford in any prompt or useful fashion. I really can't imagine what more evidence you need to see of this?!

Maybe we could go back to using the scrum-half to get the ball out? When Care runs he is so much more dangerous than Youngs anyway. I just hope we try and play a game that actually fits these changes. Youngs is possibly a better option for 9 man rugby, granted, but we actually have some decent backs at the moment. I'd love to see what might happen if we give Ford the chance to use them rather than just kicking and chasing.

He probably needs a bit more convincing as he's got two eyes to convince.

[Digby]

Seems very odd to promote Care ahead of Youngs, has just as many problems without as many positives, and too given the link between 9 and 10 isn't quite working another change isn't the obvious step to fix that. But whatever, France look a shambles

The link at 9 and 10 isn't working because Youngs can't get the ball to Ford in any prompt or useful fashion. I really can't imagine what more evidence you need to see of this?!

I agree with that, and on such basis whilst Youngs has otherwise been very good if not excellent I can't see how he keeps his spot. But I'm just not remotely convinced the solution to that problem is Care.

[Mikey Brown]

Seems very odd to promote Care ahead of Youngs, has just as many problems without as many positives, and too given the link between 9 and 10 isn't quite working another change isn't the obvious step to fix that. But whatever, France look a shambles

The link at 9 and 10 isn't working because Youngs can't get the ball to Ford in any prompt or useful fashion. I really can't imagine what more evidence you need to see of this?!

I agree with that, and on such basis whilst Youngs has otherwise been very good if not excellent I can't see how he keeps his spot. But I'm just not remotely convinced the solution to that problem is Care.

It's about 1 of 2 possible options we have. Surely the question Jones has to ask is "do we go in to this game completely unable to get the ball to our fly-half? Yes or no?" It's that simple.

EP, that seems a very odd statement. This isn't about me picking Care because I think he's brilliant, it's because mostly he's capable of doing his job. There's a whole load of not-very-impressive scrum-halves I would probably select ahead of Youngs right now. I wouldn't pick a hooker who missed 80% of his lineouts or a goal-kicker who missed 80% of his kicks. Is it very old-fashioned to think a scrum-half that can't pass is comparable to that?

[Digby]

The link at 9 and 10 isn't working because Youngs can't get the ball to Ford in any prompt or useful fashion. I really can't imagine what more evidence you need to see of this?!

I agree with that, and on such basis whilst Youngs has otherwise been very good if not excellent I can't see how he keeps his spot. But I'm just not remotely convinced the solution to that problem is Care.

It's about 1 of 2 possible options we have. Surely the question Jones has to ask is "do we go in to this game completely unable to get the ball to our fly-half? Yes or no?" It's that simple.

I think they both have issues moving the ball for a variety of reasons and if given a choice of Youngs and Care then I'll pick Youngs who has played well and allow him continued time as a pairing with Ford. I get moving past Youngs, but not for a still worse option.

[Mikey Brown]

I see. We'll have to agree to disagree then. It's a funny game where one person can think he's played well and the other think he's been absolutely atrocious, killing such a massive proportion of our momentum and attacking opportunities.

Cue Danny Care having the worst game in history on Saturday.

[Renniks]

It will be interesting too see how the game plan changes with care. More running less kicking?

The scot's showed running at the French with players busting through is the most effective attack to get them disorganised. Putting care and Mako on suggests we will follow that plan.

Interestingly EJ seems to be analysing oppositions and picking plays that work against them (or that's how it appears) - this is quite crazy for an England coach and I think we should go back to just playing negative rugby against everyone.

[Mellsblue]

It will be interesting too see how the game plan changes with care. More running less kicking?

The scot's showed running at the French with players busting through is the most effective attack to get them disorganised. Putting care and Mako on suggests we will follow that plan.

Interestingly EJ seems to be analysing oppositions and picking plays that work against them (or that's how it appears) - this is quite crazy for an England coach and I think we should go back to just playing negative rugby against everyone.

Worrying, isn't it. But what do you expect if you employ someone who is a proven, top class head coach? The RFU only have themselves to blame.

[Epaminondas Pules]

The link at 9 and 10 isn't working because Youngs can't get the ball to Ford in any prompt or useful fashion. I really can't imagine what more evidence you need to see of this?!

I agree with that, and on such basis whilst Youngs has otherwise been very good if not excellent I can't see how he keeps his spot. But I'm just not remotely convinced the solution to that problem is Care.

It's about 1 of 2 possible options we have. Surely the question Jones has to ask is "do we go in to this game completely unable to get the ball to our fly-half? Yes or no?" It's that simple.

EP, that seems a very odd statement. This isn't about me picking Care because I think he's brilliant, it's because mostly he's capable of doing his job. There's a whole load of not-very-impressive scrum-halves I would probably select ahead of Youngs right now. I wouldn't pick a hooker who missed 80% of his lineouts or a goal-kicker who missed 80% of his kicks. Is it very old-fashioned to think a scrum-half that can't pass is comparable to that?

Not one eyed in terms of loving Care, but certainly one eyed in dislike of Youngs.

Of the two, neither of which are top notch I'd go with Youngs who did a lot well on Saturday. His passing has been overhyped in terms of badness though some were awful. Our momentum in the first half was excellent and Youngs was a big part of that. However at times his passing in the first half was also poor, for example our try, but most of it was fine, as was his bringing on runners into the fringe defence, plus his kicking was spot on. I don't think he was brilliant by a log shot, but he did a lot right.

However EJ seems to look at horses for courses in terms of whi he plays depending on opponent and game plan. If we end up with Care kicking lots then it's an awful decision.

I'd never have Youngs coming off the bench personally. I don't think he's an impact player. A closer maybe I suppose.

[Mellsblue]

I agree with that, and on such basis whilst Youngs has otherwise been very good if not excellent I can't see how he keeps his spot. But I'm just not remotely convinced the solution to that problem is Care.

It's about 1 of 2 possible options we have. Surely the question Jones has to ask is "do we go in to this game completely unable to get the ball to our fly-half? Yes or no?" It's that simple.

EP, that seems a very odd statement. This isn't about me picking Care because I think he's brilliant, it's because mostly he's capable of doing his job. There's a whole load of not-very-impressive scrum-halves I would probably select ahead of Youngs right now. I wouldn't pick a hooker who missed 80% of his lineouts or a goal-kicker who missed 80% of his kicks. Is it very old-fashioned to think a scrum-half that can't pass is comparable to that?

Not one eyed in terms of loving Care, but certainly one eyed in dislike of Youngs.

Of the two, neither of which are top notch I'd go with Youngs who did a lot well on Saturday. His passing has been overhyped in terms of badness though some were awful. Our momentum in the first half was excellent and Youngs was a big part of that. However at times his passing in the first half was also poor, for example our try, but most of it was fine, as was his bringing on runners into the fringe defence, plus his kicking was spot on. I don't think he was brilliant by a log shot, but he did a lot right.

However EJ seems to look at horses for courses in terms of whi he plays depending on opponent and game plan. If we end up with Care kicking lots then it's an awful decision.

I'd never have Youngs coming off the bench personally. I don't think he's an impact player. A closer maybe I suppose.

I can see Youngs' plus points but for me his passing is a serious issue. I can't see how you can have a scrumhalf whose passing can be so woeful at times. It is surely the first requirement of the position. It's like having a prop who, 30% of the time, will be a liability in the scrum - Gethin Jenkins is world class around the field but can't make the Wales 1stXV because his scrummaging has deteriorated too much.

Finally, a Tigers fan who can claim not to be one-eyed about a Tigers player, come on

[thedman]

The scot's showed running at the French with players busting through is the most effective attack to get them disorganised. Putting care and Mako on suggests we will follow that plan.

Interestingly EJ seems to be analysing oppositions and picking plays that work against them (or that's how it appears) - this is quite crazy for an England coach and I think we should go back to just playing negative rugby against everyone.

Worrying, isn't it. But what do you expect if you employ someone who is a proven, top class head coach? The RFU only have themselves to blame.

At the press conference EJ said:

They’ve got one of the most successful coaches in European rugby and they’re looking to play that off the cuff French style of play. They haven’t been able to do that, it all relies on their forwards being able to go forward before they can play the off the cuff stuff. We’ve got to make sure on Saturday that we don’t let them get go-forward in the forwards.

Does the choice of Care help us deal with that? (it is well beyond my ability and knowledge to work that out but hopefully those on here who understand tactics can advise!)

[Epaminondas Pules]

It's about 1 of 2 possible options we have. Surely the question Jones has to ask is "do we go in to this game completely unable to get the ball to our fly-half? Yes or no?" It's that simple.

EP, that seems a very odd statement. This isn't about me picking Care because I think he's brilliant, it's because mostly he's capable of doing his job. There's a whole load of not-very-impressive scrum-halves I would probably select ahead of Youngs right now. I wouldn't pick a hooker who missed 80% of his lineouts or a goal-kicker who missed 80% of his kicks. Is it very old-fashioned to think a scrum-half that can't pass is comparable to that?

Not one eyed in terms of loving Care, but certainly one eyed in dislike of Youngs.

Of the two, neither of which are top notch I'd go with Youngs who did a lot well on Saturday. His passing has been overhyped in terms of badness though some were awful. Our momentum in the first half was excellent and Youngs was a big part of that. However at times his passing in the first half was also poor, for example our try, but most of it was fine, as was his bringing on runners into the fringe defence, plus his kicking was spot on. I don't think he was brilliant by a log shot, but he did a lot right.

However EJ seems to look at horses for courses in terms of whi he plays depending on opponent and game plan. If we end up with Care kicking lots then it's an awful decision.

I'd never have Youngs coming off the bench personally. I don't think he's an impact player. A closer maybe I suppose.

I can see Youngs' plus points but for me his passing is a serious issue. I can't see how you can have a scrumhalf whose passing can be so woeful at times. It is surely the first requirement of the position. It's like having a prop who, 30% of the time, will be a liability in the scrum - Gethin Jenkins is world class around the field but can't make the Wales 1stXV because his scrummaging has deteriorated too much.

Finally, a Tigers fan who can claim not to be one-eyed about a Tigers player, come on

Both starting 9s on Saturday had issues with their passing, and oddly Youngs was the better of the two. There was a marked difference on Saturday in terms of speed in getting the ball out of the breakdown, though I do attribute a lot of that down to much better clearing out by the supporting forwards. Itoje is especially good at this. It gives the SH much cleaner and clearer ball to play with. The clearing out is probably what pleased me most about the first half.

Over the last couple of years his form has been pretty poo. His passing is not to the standard I would want from a 9, absolutely. His form has been getting better since working with Hansen.

[Epaminondas Pules]

Interestingly EJ seems to be analysing oppositions and picking plays that work against them (or that's how it appears) - this is quite crazy for an England coach and I think we should go back to just playing negative rugby against everyone.

Worrying, isn't it. But what do you expect if you employ someone who is a proven, top class head coach? The RFU only have themselves to blame.

At the press conference EJ said:

They’ve got one of the most successful coaches in European rugby and they’re looking to play that off the cuff French style of play. They haven’t been able to do that, it all relies on their forwards being able to go forward before they can play the off the cuff stuff. We’ve got to make sure on Saturday that we don’t let them get go-forward in the forwards.

Does the choice of Care help us deal with that? (it is well beyond my ability and knowledge to work that out but hopefully those on here who understand tactics can advise!)

Care will be more of an attacking decision from EJ.

[thedman]

Worrying, isn't it. But what do you expect if you employ someone who is a proven, top class head coach? The RFU only have themselves to blame.

At the press conference EJ said:

They’ve got one of the most successful coaches in European rugby and they’re looking to play that off the cuff French style of play. They haven’t been able to do that, it all relies on their forwards being able to go forward before they can play the off the cuff stuff. We’ve got to make sure on Saturday that we don’t let them get go-forward in the forwards.

Does the choice of Care help us deal with that? (it is well beyond my ability and knowledge to work that out but hopefully those on here who understand tactics can advise!)

Care will be more of an attacking decision from EJ.

Is that an "attack being the best form of defence" strategy?