Eng v. Ire - Match thread

[Raggs]

I think once we hit 18 points, we basically felt they weren't going to get 3 tries, so let them try. Ping them back and let them bring it. Perhaps not a killer instinct approach, is there a head to head factor with regards to who tops the pool, or is it solely points difference?

[p/d]

MP’s, points diff, tries and if all tied after that cleanest shirt of replacement hooker

[Raggs]

Eddie's such a git .

First reporter lined up to ask him a question is on mute, so doesn't come through, before he gets a chance to start talking, Eddie says "Good question though. Probably the best question you've asked mate." Big grin on his face

Love his answer about questions asked about Willis being absent, and if the backrow he chose answered those questions. Tells the reporter that they didn't have to answer anything to him (eddie), and the press can fantasise about their teams, but those were the guys that played for England today. As a player, I'd love Eddie for that.

Another asks if he's disappointed about not looking like scoring much in the 2nd half (let's be honest, both those penalties could have instead have been put into the corners, but I think the 3s were the smarter choice). Eddie tells him he can be disappointed, but I'm (Eddie) not. That beating Ireland is tough.

[twitchy]

On a slightly different note I really thought the ch4 commentary was really bad.

[Banquo]

On a slightly different note I really thought the ch4 commentary was really bad.

Yep. Pundits were awful.

[p/d]

On a slightly different note I really thought the ch4 commentary was really bad.

Yep. Pundits were awful.

Up there with Habana’s dress sense

[Galfon]

MP’s, points diff, tries and if all tied after that cleanest shirt of replacement hooker

4 head-to-heads on finals weekend..
are they doing cup-plate-bowl-shield to put glitter on the thing, or will it just be for the glory ?

[twitchy]

I'm still in love with jonny may. He is clearly incredibly talented but still gives off this vibe of not knowing what the hell he is doing. I wish I had a screen shot but one time he got the ball and behind the line and about 4 england players were pointing at some space he should be running into.

For what ever reason it genuinely made me laugh.

Reminds me of this.

[Banquo]

Generally that would be a terrific game for the winning coach, as there are so many ostensibly easy things to point out in the debrief to improve. Unfortunately in this case, they are recurring themes- brainless penalties (Launch and Faz had 3 daft ones apiece, the latter especially so), overdoing the kicking, and kicking poorly at that, and quality of some of the passing. But also, I think, a lack of confidence ball in hand beyond a couple of phases- one lovely interchange between Youngs and the back row showed what can be done by playing a bit more heads up, and Mays try was terrific in ambition and good hands to get him the ball early.

There were big positives- Mako and Sinckler were excellent, along with the locks and esp the backrow unit in defence. Lineout wasn’t great, but it was heavily targeted, and didn’t fall apart; the errors were all George’s and that’s unusual (probably a combination of mental pressure and being knackered from shit loads of tackles, thanks to us not wanting the ball ). I do think we need to use Curry more as a jumper, it’s too much to rely on the locks exclusively. The jackaling against a side as good at the breakdown was a massive plus.

In the backs, Youngs and esp Faz are a creative vacuum (Fazs defence was as ropey as ever, stupid penalties, and v average kicking) The centres saw little ball, and made 4 yards between them- their defence was ok, especially Lawrence who defended well at 12.

The May at openside and JJ at blindside wing was interesting, but we didn’t use the ball enough to see if JJ as a third centre off the blindside wing would work, and it caused a lot disruption; we did work some space on a couple of occasions, only to find the man out wide in space was George, twice, and Ollie Lawrence....and I think it was similar on the two or three kicks we shouldn’t have done in good attacking positions.

We have enough good back three players to not have to fanny about like this, as interesting as it is.

We had 30% (32 overall) possession and 23% (28 overall) territory second half. Fair play in defence but you can’t have those stats regularly and keep winning. These were driven by a high penalty count and kicking the ball 34 times, which is a huge percentage of that possession.

Because of that terrific platform- subject to slight lineout tweaks- it should be possibly to graft some much more orthodox ways of attacking ball in hand, but probably not with the half back pairing and Faz in poor nick.

The positives are big, the downsides fixable mostly. That’s the challenge.

[Banquo]

I'm still in love with jonny may. He is clearly incredibly talented but still gives off this vibe of not knowing what the hell he is doing. I wish I had a screen shot but one time he got the ball and behind the line and about 4 england players were pointing at some space he should be running into.

For what ever reason it genuinely made me laugh.

Reminds me of this.

Mate of mine played with him at Hartpury.- space cadet was the phrase.

[Oakboy]

In the backs, Youngs and esp Faz are a creative vacuum (Fazs defence was as ropey as ever, stupid penalties, and v average kicking) The centres saw little ball.

Genuine questions: Does Jones care? Or, is he blind to what is happening? Does he think the alternatives are no better? What are the assistant coaches being paid for (in terms of attack/creativity)?

[Banquo]

In the backs, Youngs and esp Faz are a creative vacuum (Fazs defence was as ropey as ever, stupid penalties, and v average kicking) The centres saw little ball.

Genuine questions: Does Jones care? Or, is he blind to what is happening? Does he think the alternatives are no better? What are the assistant coaches being paid for (in terms of attack/creativity)?

He thinks the best way to win games is to get territory (this has merit )and sees those two as his best bet- though I’d note he generally has played Ford at 10 when having free choice (well, bar the 2019 6n). Over half his starts have been at 12, and a much higher proportion under Eddie. I think he’s a worse 12 than 10, but hey.
He clearly thinks they are two of the first names on the team sheet. He’s not tried very hard to find an alternative to Youngs, and it’s not as if he’s a lazy coach with researching and watching games.

[Mikey Brown]

I had to laugh at crediting the ambition for getting May the ball early for his second. A lineout goes loose in our own 22 and I just have to be glad it’s one our tight five that gathers it and has the composure/vision to move it wide where there’s a bit of space.

[Banquo]

I had to laugh at crediting the ambition for getting May the ball early for his second. A lineout goes loose in our own 22 and I just have to be glad it’s one our tight five that gathers it and has the composure/vision to move it wide where there’s a bit of space.

The irony wasn’t lost on me either- but Slade could have hoofed it, perfect for his left foot, but didn’t,

[Raggs]

It did amuse me to see that it completely skipped our half backs.

[Banquo]

It did amuse me to see that it completely skipped our half backs.

Great pass from Maro .

[FKAS]

MP’s, points diff, tries and if all tied after that cleanest shirt of replacement hooker

4 head-to-heads on finals weekend..
are they doing cup-plate-bowl-shield to put glitter on the thing, or will it just be for the glory ?

Money. It's all for the money.

[Banquo]

Be interesting to hear the debrief on the two dinks over the top, the second for Stockdales try. Where was the sweeper? Also, how many times did we let the high ball bounce?

[twitchy]

[Banquo]

MP’s, points diff, tries and if all tied after that cleanest shirt of replacement hooker

4 head-to-heads on finals weekend..
are they doing cup-plate-bowl-shield to put glitter on the thing, or will it just be for the glory ?

Money. It's all for the money.

Well, it is needed.

[16th man]

4 head-to-heads on finals weekend..
are they doing cup-plate-bowl-shield to put glitter on the thing, or will it just be for the glory ?

Money. It's all for the money.

Well, it is needed.

And it's not like 4 AIs is completely unheard of

[jngf]

Generally that would be a terrific game for the winning coach, as there are so many ostensibly easy things to point out in the debrief to improve. Unfortunately in this case, they are recurring themes- brainless penalties (Launch and Faz had 3 daft ones apiece, the latter especially so), overdoing the kicking, and kicking poorly at that, and quality of some of the passing. But also, I think, a lack of confidence ball in hand beyond a couple of phases- one lovely interchange between Youngs and the back row showed what can be done by playing a bit more heads up, and Mays try was terrific in ambition and good hands to get him the ball early.

There were big positives- Mako and Sinckler were excellent, along with the locks and esp the backrow unit in defence. Lineout wasn’t great, but it was heavily targeted, and didn’t fall apart; the errors were all George’s and that’s unusual (probably a combination of mental pressure and being knackered from shit loads of tackles, thanks to us not wanting the ball ). I do think we need to use Curry more as a jumper, it’s too much to rely on the locks exclusively. The jackaling against a side as good at the breakdown was a massive plus.

In the backs, Youngs and esp Faz are a creative vacuum (Fazs defence was as ropey as ever, stupid penalties, and v average kicking) The centres saw little ball, and made 4 yards between them- their defence was ok, especially Lawrence who defended well at 12.

The May at openside and JJ at blindside wing was interesting, but we didn’t use the ball enough to see if JJ as a third centre off the blindside wing would work, and it caused a lot disruption; we did work some space on a couple of occasions, only to find the man out wide in space was George, twice, and Ollie Lawrence....and I think it was similar on the two or three kicks we shouldn’t have done in good attacking positions.

We have enough good back three players to not have to fanny about like this, as interesting as it is.

We had 30% (32 overall) possession and 23% (28 overall) territory second half. Fair play in defence but you can’t have those stats regularly and keep winning. These were driven by a high penalty count and kicking the ball 34 times, which is a huge percentage of that possession.

Because of that terrific platform- subject to slight lineout tweaks- it should be possibly to graft some much more orthodox ways of attacking ball in hand, but probably not with the half back pairing and Faz in poor nick.

The positives are big, the downsides fixable mostly. That’s the challenge.

Where is this Curry lineout jumper business come from? ( presumably the same place that Curry is a big carrier) I get that he’s enthusiastic and will try his hand to whatever Eddie and Mitchell throw his way - but Curry’s versatility is massively over stated imo - I’ve become a stuck record on the point and appreciate most on board disagree with me so I’ll try and avoid repeating it anymore but just for the record I think he’s a great test openside, a mediocre 6 and an absolutely dire no.8 - over and out

[WaspInWales]

I'm still in love with jonny may. He is clearly incredibly talented but still gives off this vibe of not knowing what the hell he is doing. I wish I had a screen shot but one time he got the ball and behind the line and about 4 england players were pointing at some space he should be running into.

For what ever reason it genuinely made me laugh.

Reminds me of this.

May's second try against Ireland recreated by Hollywood:

[Banquo]

Generally that would be a terrific game for the winning coach, as there are so many ostensibly easy things to point out in the debrief to improve. Unfortunately in this case, they are recurring themes- brainless penalties (Launch and Faz had 3 daft ones apiece, the latter especially so), overdoing the kicking, and kicking poorly at that, and quality of some of the passing. But also, I think, a lack of confidence ball in hand beyond a couple of phases- one lovely interchange between Youngs and the back row showed what can be done by playing a bit more heads up, and Mays try was terrific in ambition and good hands to get him the ball early.

There were big positives- Mako and Sinckler were excellent, along with the locks and esp the backrow unit in defence. Lineout wasn’t great, but it was heavily targeted, and didn’t fall apart; the errors were all George’s and that’s unusual (probably a combination of mental pressure and being knackered from shit loads of tackles, thanks to us not wanting the ball ). I do think we need to use Curry more as a jumper, it’s too much to rely on the locks exclusively. The jackaling against a side as good at the breakdown was a massive plus.

In the backs, Youngs and esp Faz are a creative vacuum (Fazs defence was as ropey as ever, stupid penalties, and v average kicking) The centres saw little ball, and made 4 yards between them- their defence was ok, especially Lawrence who defended well at 12.

The May at openside and JJ at blindside wing was interesting, but we didn’t use the ball enough to see if JJ as a third centre off the blindside wing would work, and it caused a lot disruption; we did work some space on a couple of occasions, only to find the man out wide in space was George, twice, and Ollie Lawrence....and I think it was similar on the two or three kicks we shouldn’t have done in good attacking positions.

We have enough good back three players to not have to fanny about like this, as interesting as it is.

We had 30% (32 overall) possession and 23% (28 overall) territory second half. Fair play in defence but you can’t have those stats regularly and keep winning. These were driven by a high penalty count and kicking the ball 34 times, which is a huge percentage of that possession.

Because of that terrific platform- subject to slight lineout tweaks- it should be possibly to graft some much more orthodox ways of attacking ball in hand, but probably not with the half back pairing and Faz in poor nick.

The positives are big, the downsides fixable mostly. That’s the challenge.

Where is this Curry lineout jumper business come from? ( presumably the same place that Curry is a big carrier) I get that he’s enthusiastic and will try his hand to whatever Eddie and Mitchell throw his way - but Curry’s versatility is massively over stated imo - I’ve become a stuck record on the point and appreciate most on board disagree with me so I’ll try and avoid repeating it anymore but just for the record I think he’s a great test openside, a mediocre 6 and an absolutely dire no.8 - over and out

You might try watching Sale play, and also taking note of what actually does when playing for England. But I don’t know why I’m bothering after your ludicrous comments about the back row during the game.

[Raggs]

Generally that would be a terrific game for the winning coach, as there are so many ostensibly easy things to point out in the debrief to improve. Unfortunately in this case, they are recurring themes- brainless penalties (Launch and Faz had 3 daft ones apiece, the latter especially so), overdoing the kicking, and kicking poorly at that, and quality of some of the passing. But also, I think, a lack of confidence ball in hand beyond a couple of phases- one lovely interchange between Youngs and the back row showed what can be done by playing a bit more heads up, and Mays try was terrific in ambition and good hands to get him the ball early.

There were big positives- Mako and Sinckler were excellent, along with the locks and esp the backrow unit in defence. Lineout wasn’t great, but it was heavily targeted, and didn’t fall apart; the errors were all George’s and that’s unusual (probably a combination of mental pressure and being knackered from shit loads of tackles, thanks to us not wanting the ball ). I do think we need to use Curry more as a jumper, it’s too much to rely on the locks exclusively. The jackaling against a side as good at the breakdown was a massive plus.

In the backs, Youngs and esp Faz are a creative vacuum (Fazs defence was as ropey as ever, stupid penalties, and v average kicking) The centres saw little ball, and made 4 yards between them- their defence was ok, especially Lawrence who defended well at 12.

The May at openside and JJ at blindside wing was interesting, but we didn’t use the ball enough to see if JJ as a third centre off the blindside wing would work, and it caused a lot disruption; we did work some space on a couple of occasions, only to find the man out wide in space was George, twice, and Ollie Lawrence....and I think it was similar on the two or three kicks we shouldn’t have done in good attacking positions.

We have enough good back three players to not have to fanny about like this, as interesting as it is.

We had 30% (32 overall) possession and 23% (28 overall) territory second half. Fair play in defence but you can’t have those stats regularly and keep winning. These were driven by a high penalty count and kicking the ball 34 times, which is a huge percentage of that possession.

Because of that terrific platform- subject to slight lineout tweaks- it should be possibly to graft some much more orthodox ways of attacking ball in hand, but probably not with the half back pairing and Faz in poor nick.

The positives are big, the downsides fixable mostly. That’s the challenge.

Where is this Curry lineout jumper business come from? ( presumably the same place that Curry is a big carrier) I get that he’s enthusiastic and will try his hand to whatever Eddie and Mitchell throw his way - but Curry’s versatility is massively over stated imo - I’ve become a stuck record on the point and appreciate most on board disagree with me so I’ll try and avoid repeating it anymore but just for the record I think he’s a great test openside, a mediocre 6 and an absolutely dire no.8 - over and out

Can you tell me what the differences are between an international 6 and 7, specifically in how England utilise them.