Training Squad named ...

[Raggs]

Wonder if there is scope for Martin to join up with the 20’s. Seems a shame for him to miss their 6 Nations for the sake of 2 weeks training.

It might be that Eddie has told him to have a big pre-season, or bulk up, or any number of things that being in camp to play USA etc wouldn't really help. Or maybe he's got some niggles etc. Or maybe Eddie has dropped him.

This series is really not one to read into for me, those that have been picked have caught the eye, but anyone that's been in camp before, especially those that have been capped, shouldn't have the public panicking too much.

[Puja]

The only thing I can think of with Martin is that it's a motivational thing - Eddie thinks he'll go away and fight harder to improve when slighted, like he did with Itoje. I'll trust to his judgement if that's the case, although not every player thrives on rejection and does better to prove him wrong (cf BCurry).

Not too bothered about JSimmonds - I've never been a massive fan and he's dropped off the form that was making me question whether I was wrong about him. Same for Devoto - decent player, but an international in waiting?

Made up for Kenningham. Really good story and I've been so impressed with his desire and workrate. Just the minerals needed to line up opposite LCD for the two tap penalties and not only call "My Man", but then be able to back that up with stopping him dead twice in a row. I don't know if he's got what it takes to be a future regular international, but there's not a person who can argue that he hasn't earned a shot at a cap now.

Puja

[Timbo]

Wonder if there is scope for Martin to join up with the 20’s. Seems a shame for him to miss their 6 Nations for the sake of 2 weeks training.

It might be that Eddie has told him to have a big pre-season, or bulk up, or any number of things that being in camp to play USA etc wouldn't really help. Or maybe he's got some niggles etc. Or maybe Eddie has dropped him.

This series is really not one to read into for me, those that have been picked have caught the eye, but anyone that's been in camp before, especially those that have been capped, shouldn't have the public panicking too much.

Oh absolutely. I’m perfectly sanguine about Martin’s omission. Just fancied seeing him tearing it up for the England 20’s. I imagine he’d be pretty brutal at that level.

[Stom]

It's just a shame he didn't call up Northmore, Murley and Lynagh. And where's Symonds and Chisholm?

Seriously, though, great for Kenningham. I look forward to seeing him in a white shirt.

[Timbo]

By position;

LH: Genge, Obano, Rodd
TH: Hayes, Davison, P Hill
Hooker: Blamire, Langdon, Oghre
Lock: Ewels, McNally, Munga, Wells
Flankers: B Curry, T Hill, Kenningham, Ludlum, Ludlow, Underhill
8’s: Chick, Dombrandt

SH: Mitchell, Randall, Robson
FH: Smith, Umaga
Centre: Slade, Kelly, Lawrence, Ojomoh
Wing: Cokanasiga, Bassett, Radwan
FB: Furbank, Steward
Utility: Malins, Marchant

A fair few backrow. Likely a couple won’t feature at all in the tests. And only just realised that Ojomoh made the cut. Quite the rise for a player who seemed virtually forgotten for most of the season at Bath.

[Puja]

By position;

LH: Genge, Obano, Rodd
TH: Hayes, Davison, P Hill
Hooker: Blamire, Langdon, Oghre
Lock: Ewels, McNally, Munga, Wells
Flankers: B Curry, T Hill, Kenningham, Ludlum, Ludlow, Underhill
8’s: Chick, Dombrandt

SH: Mitchell, Randall, Robson
FH: Smith, Umaga
Centre: Slade, Kelly, Lawrence, Ojomoh
Wing: Cokanasiga, Bassett, Radwan
FB: Furbank, Steward
Utility: Malins, Marchant

A fair few backrow. Likely a couple won’t feature at all in the tests. And only just realised that Ojomoh made the cut. Quite the rise for a player who seemed virtually forgotten for most of the season at Bath.

Gods bless you for that.

I believe Ojomoh was injured for the first half of the season, wasn't he? Had a reasonable bit of time towards the end of the season, although you'd suspect he's at the back of that queue of centres. Not entirely sure what the point of picking Slade in the squad is though - we're not really gonna learn much that we didn't already know from watching him take the piss out of a makeshift USA defence.

On the back row, if we're picking on a mixture of form/potential, I'd say Ludlow and Chick are the ones I have the least interest in, followed by Ludlam who hasn't kicked forwards since being given the chances in 2019. Any combination of BCurry, Underhill, Hill, and Kenningham on the flanks would be of interest to me.

Puja

[Stom]

I reckon it'll be Underhill and Curry on the flanks. Who gets the 20 shirt depends on how Eddie plays it, but it'll most likely be one of Hill or Ludlam.

The backs, though, could be tasty...

Mitchell, Smith, Coka, Lawrence, Marchant, Radwan, Malins

[jngf]

I reckon it'll be Underhill and Curry on the flanks. Who gets the 20 shirt depends on how Eddie plays it, but it'll most likely be one of Hill or Ludlam.

The backs, though, could be tasty...

Mitchell, Smith, Coka, Lawrence, Marchant, Radwan, Malins

Btw what’s happened to Earl? Availability/injury?

[Stom]

I reckon it'll be Underhill and Curry on the flanks. Who gets the 20 shirt depends on how Eddie plays it, but it'll most likely be one of Hill or Ludlam.

The backs, though, could be tasty...

Mitchell, Smith, Coka, Lawrence, Marchant, Radwan, Malins

Btw what’s happened to Earl? Availability/injury?

Or maybe he's just meh...

[jngf]

I reckon it'll be Underhill and Curry on the flanks. Who gets the 20 shirt depends on how Eddie plays it, but it'll most likely be one of Hill or Ludlam.

The backs, though, could be tasty...

Mitchell, Smith, Coka, Lawrence, Marchant, Radwan, Malins

Btw what’s happened to Earl? Availability/injury?

Or maybe he's just meh...

Don’t think that’s fair to be honest - more to offer in attack than T Curry - Underhill or Wilson imo for starters and only been given the finisher spot to display capabilities to date.

[Mikey Brown]

He's got a ton of pace and linking ability but in terms of actual output I really don't think you can say that. I don't disagree there could be a lot more to come from him, but is he demanding a spot in terms of performances or does he just offer a lot of potential?

[jngf]

He's got a ton of pace and linking ability but in terms of actual output I really don't think you can say that. I don't disagree there could be a lot more to come from him, but is he demanding a spot in terms of performances or does he just offer a lot of potential?

If he’s never been gain a start it’s hard to judge, I think he would portentially add much more to attack than any of Wilson, Underhill nor Curry (since he became more of 6.5 ) have shown in the starts at 7 they’ve all demonstrated in the past few seasons. All three have great qualities but none have been prominent in the wider channels nor could be realistically termed linkmen - and I maintain having a linking player amongst the forwards would improve our forward play. I believe deep down Jones is myopically wedded to a Curry - Underhill - Billy triumvirate come what may.

[Timbo]

Earl is a good player and he was on fire after the restart up until he was called into England camp. For whatever reason he’s not been the same post 6 Nations. Has a good chance to nail down the 7 shirt at Sarries which won’t do his England prospects any harm.

[Scrumhead]

I’m assuming Earl is carrying a knock. Despite not yet starting a game, he’s definitely been the ‘go to’ back row substitute for Eddie in recent times, so I wouldn’t immediately jump to the conclusion of him being out of favour.

On the other hand, he hasn’t been in sparkling form and it wouldn’t be completely unfair to say that he hasn’t really grasped his opportunities with England so far.

I like him and I think he offers something different to our other options at 7. He’s quicker and a more elusive run ball-in-hand, but he’s some distance behind the likes of Curry and Underhill in most of the other areas I’d prioritise from a 7. His best role is probably the ‘impact sub’ but by definition, that means he needs to make an impact which I’m not really sure he has so far. As it is, I can see Ben Curry or maybe even Simmonds (depending on the Lions tour) leapfrogging him for that role.

[fivepointer]

What should be a little concerning is that Earl has 13 caps, all earned as a sub. He's yet to start a game. He might just miss out given the competition in the back row.

[Scrumhead]

Not really. Most of those were 6 Nations games and I don’t think anyone would have preferred to see him start ahead of Curry or Underhill (who have mostly featured at 7 during his 13 caps) against the home nations or France.

We could/maybe should have given him a couple of 6N starts against Italy or Georgia in the Autumn Nations Cup maybe, but that’s all I’d have expected TBH.

[Puja]

I have to say I don't get the fuss about Earl either. I never see him do something which makes me say, "Wow, that's special." He runs fast, picks a good support line, and looks good finishing off Bristol breaks (which might impress those obsessed with "link play"), but he's not got the always-there-always-involved feel of a TCurry, an Underhill, or a JWillis.

I definitely don't think it's because he's got a Hughes-like lack of workrate; it feels like he just hasn't got the nous of reading the game to be in the right place at the right time and has maybe grown up being able to use his speed to compensate for that.

I'm very interested to see how he gets on back at Saracens next season. Feels like he won't suit them as well as he did Bristol, but they've lost a few back row and so won't really have the option of benching him. Be interesting to see if he'll adapt and develop.

Puja

[Scrumhead]

Earl is better over the ball and defensively than he often gets credit for. He’s just competing with a generation of brilliant players. In a different era, we would probably have been very happy for him to be an undisputed first pick.

I actually think he will benefit from being back at Saracens. It’s a little bit of a changing of the guard there and he has the opportunity to be a leading player in their new era. The Bristol style of play suited him but arguably put him in a comfort zone of doing more of the ‘fun stuff’ and less of the dog work. Saracens will need him to be at the coal face, which I think is better for his development.

[Banquo]

Earl is better over the ball and defensively than he often gets credit for. He’s just competing with a generation of brilliant players. In a different era, we would probably have been very happy for him to be an undisputed first pick.

I actually think he will benefit from being back at Saracens. It’s a little bit of a changing of the guard there and he has the opportunity to be a leading player in their new era. The Bristol style of play suited him but arguably put him in a comfort zone of doing more of the ‘fun stuff’ and less of the dog work. Saracens will need him to be at the coal face, which I think is better for his development.

Agree- he's good over the ball, and quick. I'd say he's better than a couple of the back rows in this squad, but looks like he's been overlooked to give Curry B a chance.

[Freddo]

Eddie goes through wingers doesn't he? Haven't seen anything of Radwan, is he worth the call up?

[Digby]

Yep, Earl might not be now or ever really pushing to start test matches, but when you see some of the fluff commentary on others in the current squad he certainly has more to hang his hat on, even if only for now.

[Digby]

Eddie goes through wingers doesn't he? Haven't seen anything of Radwan, is he worth the call up?

He's alright. Ignoring Wade to later picked Radwan would be a little odd, but we'll see if he can push on

[FKAS]

Eddie goes through wingers doesn't he? Haven't seen anything of Radwan, is he worth the call up?

Absolutely rapid. May and Rees-Zammit levels of pace. Little bit shorter so has a lower centre of gravity, good footwork. Decent kick chase skills but average in the air. Definitely one I thought should be in there.

Check out his kick chase Vs Worcester and his length of the field effort Vs Gloucester.

[Puja]

Yep, Earl might not be now or ever really pushing to start test matches, but when you see some of the fluff commentary on others in the current squad he certainly has more to hang his hat on, even if only for now.

He's in the unfortunate position of being in our strongest area though, as opposed to the likes of Oghre, whose credentials are, "Not yet proven to never be good enough to be an international".

Gods, just imagine if he'd been around in 2005ish. He'd've got 100+ caps.

Puja

[Digby]

Yep, Earl might not be now or ever really pushing to start test matches, but when you see some of the fluff commentary on others in the current squad he certainly has more to hang his hat on, even if only for now.

He's in the unfortunate position of being in our strongest area though, as opposed to the likes of Oghre, whose credentials are, "Not yet proven to never be good enough to be an international".

Gods, just imagine if he'd been around in 2005ish. He'd've got 100+ caps.

Puja

Our strongest area doesn't dominate many games, which might be indicative


Edit, poor choice of wording that, even for me, it'd be better to say they don't control many games