RugbyRebels

Both very interesting calls.

I wonder what orientation he would go with if forced to field Daly, Malins and Steward all at once.

If I see 15. Daly I will lose it and magically become French for a few years.

Danno wrote:May out. Lawes on return to play protocols

Isiekwe and Daly called up.

https://www.englandrugby.com/news/artic ... ions-squad

…and Ford

Danno wrote:May out. Lawes on return to play protocols

Isiekwe and Daly called up.

https://www.englandrugby.com/news/artic ... ions-squad

May's a big loss, especially if it's going to be horrible weather. Having Daly back as a winger is an interesting idea though.

Sounds like we're naming the captain on a game-by-game basis, rather than naming one for the tournament. Assuming it's Curry if Lawes doesn't make it (although he's got plenty of time).

Puja

Mikey Brown wrote:Both very interesting calls.

I wonder what orientation he would go with if forced to field Daly, Malins and Steward all at once.

While Steward can play wing, his major USP that makes him international quality right now is his command coming forward onto kicks from fullback. If you move him to the wing and take that away, he's not good enough in other facets yet.

Puja

Puja wrote:

Danno wrote:May out. Lawes on return to play protocols

Isiekwe and Daly called up.

https://www.englandrugby.com/news/artic ... ions-squad

May's a big loss, especially if it's going to be horrible weather.Having Daly back as a winger is an interesting idea though.

Sounds like we're naming the captain on a game-by-game basis, rather than naming one for the tournament. Assuming it's Curry if Lawes doesn't make it (although he's got plenty of time).

Puja

Interesting to see London Irish FB Stokes gassing Daly at the weekend. Wonder if he's match fit enough for international rugby.

Puja wrote:

Mikey Brown wrote:Both very interesting calls.

I wonder what orientation he would go with if forced to field Daly, Malins and Steward all at once.

While Steward can play wing, his major USP that makes him international quality right now is his command coming forward onto kicks from fullback. If you move him to the wing and take that away, he's not good enough in other facets yet.

Puja

Yeah maybe orientation wasn't the right word to use. It would be odd not to have Steward in the 15 shirt, but it would seem a very Eddie thing to want to mess with having 3 fullback-esque players, particularly after the way Daly was used in attack from fullback for England previously. He does seem quite wedded to contrasting wings though.

Puja wrote:

Danno wrote:May out. Lawes on return to play protocols

Isiekwe and Daly called up.

https://www.englandrugby.com/news/artic ... ions-squad

May's a big loss, especially if it's going to be horrible weather. Having Daly back as a winger is an interesting idea though.

Sounds like we're naming the captain on a game-by-game basis, rather than naming one for the tournament. Assuming it's Curry if Lawes doesn't make it (although he's got plenty of time).

Puja

Yep. Realistically, it sounds like Isiekwe is there for training. I’d expect Lawes to be back in time for Scotland. Hopefully Isiekwe impresses enough in training to leapfrog Ewels though.

I know he hasn’t shone since he moved back to Gloucester, but I think a lot of people have forgotten how good May is and want to put him out to pasture too early. He had a couple of bad moments vs. SA but is still a very good player and will be a big loss. His positioning in defence and reliability under the high ball are underrated.

I’m not overly surprised to see Daly back in. Radwan hasn’t really done anything of note since the AIs and doesn’t have the experience/credit in the bank to fall back on. Also, aside from May and Nowell, the rest of the back three options are inexperienced. Daly at least solves that. If he plays on the wing and gets back into the groove there, we (and he) might remember how good he was there for a while …

Mikey Brown wrote:

Puja wrote:

Mikey Brown wrote:Both very interesting calls.

I wonder what orientation he would go with if forced to field Daly, Malins and Steward all at once.

While Steward can play wing, his major USP that makes him international quality right now is his command coming forward onto kicks from fullback. If you move him to the wing and take that away, he's not good enough in other facets yet.

Puja

Yeah maybe orientation wasn't the right word to use. It would be odd not to have Steward in the 15 shirt, but it would seem a very Eddie thing to want to mess with having 3 fullback-esque players, particularly after the way Daly was used in attack from fullback for England previously. He does seem quite wedded to contrasting wings though.

I think the only way Nowell won't be in the number 14 shirt against Scotland is if he picks up an injury. He's probably about the fourth name on Eddie's teamsheet - he's the epitome of the roving winger/centre/flanker that Eddie's been trying to develop for years.

Puja

Puja wrote:

Mikey Brown wrote:

Puja wrote:
While Steward can play wing, his major USP that makes him international quality right now is his command coming forward onto kicks from fullback. If you move him to the wing and take that away, he's not good enough in other facets yet.

Puja

Yeah maybe orientation wasn't the right word to use. It would be odd not to have Steward in the 15 shirt, but it would seem a very Eddie thing to want to mess with having 3 fullback-esque players, particularly after the way Daly was used in attack from fullback for England previously. He does seem quite wedded to contrasting wings though.

I think the only way Nowell won't be in the number 14 shirt against Scotland is if he picks up an injury. He's probably about the fourth name on Eddie's teamsheet - he's the epitome of the roving winger/centre/flanker that Eddie's been trying to develop for years.

Puja

Hard agree. I do wonder what might have been if Cokanasiga or Rokoduguni might have been able to have that brief instead. I'm a fan of Nowell, but to use a worn out criticism he is definitely short a yard or 2 of pace, regardless of his ability to make ground in contact. It's Exeter all over though - Simmonds, Slade, Nowell fit their systems but you can get frustrated about them missing their ceilings on the international stage but for a change of position. I imagine 12. Slade 13. Nowell would have been an interesting experiment at the very least

I don't know that May is such a loss. He can't get a start for Glos lately and, speculatively, I wonder if he's carrying something long term like Ford was that needs a decent bit of rehab. His ability to make something from nothing is going to suffer if that is the case.

In attacking terms, does Malins, Nowell and Steward work as a back three unit? I'm a big Nowell fan but I don't see him as a May replacement. If Daly has not got maximum gas back in his legs, I'm not sure what the right balance is. There surely has to be out and out pace somewhere.

I’m perfectly fine with Nowell coming back in. I’ve always liked him as a player and while I know he’s relatively slow for a wing, I rate his ability in other areas sufficiently highly to see past that.

I’m not even disappointed by Daly’s recall - my only real concern is whether it means Steward gets shifted over to the wing, which is a real possibility given his recent deployment there for Tigers. He’s been such a find at 15 for England, I really don’t want that undone by the return of Daly.

Based upon the original squad, the logical choice would be Malins and Nowell on the wing with Stewsrd at 15 and Daly coming in at 23. Logic and Eddie don’t always go hand in glove though …

Oakboy wrote:In attacking terms, does Malins, Nowell and Steward work as a back three unit? I'm a big Nowell fan but I don't see him as a May replacement. If Daly has not got maximum gas back in his legs, I'm not sure what the right balance is. There surely has to be out and out pace somewhere.

Depends on the conditions to some degree. On a shitty day in Scotland where the ball spends a lot of time in the air, pace won’t matter that much.

Malins isn’t May/Radwan levels of pace, but is fast and elusive and even if Steward doesn’t look that quick, it looks to me that his long stride eats up the ground and he’s actually quite fast.

Scrumhead wrote:

Oakboy wrote:In attacking terms, does Malins, Nowell and Steward work as a back three unit? I'm a big Nowell fan but I don't see him as a May replacement. If Daly has not got maximum gas back in his legs, I'm not sure what the right balance is. There surely has to be out and out pace somewhere.

Depends on the conditions to some degree. On a shitty day in Scotland where the ball spends a lot of time in the air, pace won’t matter that much.

Malins isn’t May/Radwan levels of pace, but is fast and elusive and even if Steward doesn’t look that quick, it looks to me that his long stride eats up the ground and he’s actually quite fast.

Daly at the back isn't something I ever, ever want to see again. Outside of his debut (red card in the first 15 mins iirc) he was a damn handy winger. Malins/Daly/Steward is what I'm immediately discounting, because I'm too used to being disappointed

I watched the full Sarries-Irish game at the weekend and, apart from being comfortably the best player on the pitch, Daly looked very sharp, elusive and quick throughout.

Except for one shank his kicking was brilliant too btw. Got 2 50/22’s and nearly got a 3rd. That sort of stuff will be very useful if it’s a wet day against the Scots.

Timbo wrote:I watched the full Sarries-Irish game at the weekend and, apart from being comfortably the best player on the pitch, Daly looked very sharp, elusive and quick throughout.

Except for one shank his kicking was brilliant too btw. Got 2 50/22’s and nearly got a 3rd. That sort of stuff will be very useful if it’s a wet day against the Scots.

I saw the highlights and thoroughly agree. I just don't want him doing that at 15 when we could use Steward

Pleased that Ford has rightly been added to the squad. Frankly it was a no brainer.

Also i'm happy that Isiekwe has been recognised. He's put in a good season and halfs work and deserves his recall, albeit one that is unlikely to see him get a cap. At least he's back in the frame, though others like Martin and Ted Hill have strong claims too.

I dont reckon losing May is such a terrible blow. His form has been indifferent over the last year and i'd be content with a back 3 of Nowell, Malins and Steward. Daly would seem to be the ideal bench option, which would be tough on others selected ahead of him.

Puja wrote:

Mikey Brown wrote:

Puja wrote:
While Steward can play wing, his major USP that makes him international quality right now is his command coming forward onto kicks from fullback. If you move him to the wing and take that away, he's not good enough in other facets yet.

Puja

Yeah maybe orientation wasn't the right word to use. It would be odd not to have Steward in the 15 shirt, but it would seem a very Eddie thing to want to mess with having 3 fullback-esque players, particularly after the way Daly was used in attack from fullback for England previously. He does seem quite wedded to contrasting wings though.

I think the only way Nowell won't be in the number 14 shirt against Scotland is if he picks up an injury. He's probably about the fourth name on Eddie's teamsheet - he's the epitome of the roving winger/centre/flanker that Eddie's been trying to develop for years.

Puja

Steward is as big as a flanker...

I think Steward coming into the line from deep has added something that Daly never did and that was the ability to run hard lines at pace. It gave the rest of the backline a lot of space to work in and worked well with Smith's delayed passing game, just as it works well with Ford at Tigers.

I'm coming round to the idea of Daly on the wing though.

Yeah, cold and wet games in Feb/March with the ball up in the air constantly = Steward.

FKAS wrote:

Puja wrote:

Mikey Brown wrote:
Yeah maybe orientation wasn't the right word to use. It would be odd not to have Steward in the 15 shirt, but it would seem a very Eddie thing to want to mess with having 3 fullback-esque players, particularly after the way Daly was used in attack from fullback for England previously. He does seem quite wedded to contrasting wings though.

I think the only way Nowell won't be in the number 14 shirt against Scotland is if he picks up an injury. He's probably about the fourth name on Eddie's teamsheet - he's the epitome of the roving winger/centre/flanker that Eddie's been trying to develop for years.

Puja

Steward is as big as a flanker...

I think Steward coming into the line from deep has added something that Daly never did and that was the ability to run hard lines at pace. It gave the rest of the backline a lot of space to work in and worked well with Smith's delayed passing game, just as it works well with Ford at Tigers.

I'm coming round to the idea of Daly on the wing though.

Daly was an excellent 11, both as a finisher and as auxiliary kicker from hand (and goal kicking from distance); he was also a good counter attacker from 15- amidst his obvious deficiencies without the ball at 15, he was effective when we had the ball.....albeit, I agree that he should have been used more in a standard way at 15 from 1st phase out wide, rather than popping up as a third centre- imo his pace would have made life harder for defences if coming from depth.

I'm just hoping Eddie doesn't mess around too much with Steward- he ended up on the wing in one of the AI's with Slade at 15 more often than not, and it was a mess.

FKAS wrote:

Puja wrote:

Mikey Brown wrote:
Yeah maybe orientation wasn't the right word to use. It would be odd not to have Steward in the 15 shirt, but it would seem a very Eddie thing to want to mess with having 3 fullback-esque players, particularly after the way Daly was used in attack from fullback for England previously. He does seem quite wedded to contrasting wings though.

I think the only way Nowell won't be in the number 14 shirt against Scotland is if he picks up an injury. He's probably about the fourth name on Eddie's teamsheet - he's the epitome of the roving winger/centre/flanker that Eddie's been trying to develop for years.

Puja

Steward is as big as a flanker...

I think Steward coming into the line from deep has added something that Daly never did and that was the ability to run hard lines at pace. It gave the rest of the backline a lot of space to work in and worked well with Smith's delayed passing game, just as it works well with Ford at Tigers.

I'm coming round to the idea of Daly on the wing though.

Yeah I agree with all of the above. Unless we start Atkinson, we’re lacking size in midfield so Steward’s ability to hit the line from 15 is a very useful threat to have.

Another option I think might be fairly likely is Marchant on one of the wings. He’s defensively excellent and is handy under the high ball (probably more so than Nowell) which might tempt Eddie in to shifting him out wide and putting Atkinson at 12. It’s not what I’d do, but I could see it happening. Also Atkinson’s lack of pace is less likely to be exposed vs. Johnson and Harris who aren’t really known for their speed and flair.

Am I the only thinking a back line of
10. Smith
11. Mallins
12. Slade
13. Marchant
14. Daly
15. Steward

22. Ford
23. Atkinson

Looks the most balanced we've seen in forever - or at least, since Greenwood retired.

Which Tyler wrote:Am I the only thinking a back line of
10. Smith
11. Mallins
12. Slade
13. Marchant
14. Daly
15. Steward

22. Ford
23. Atkinson

Looks the most balanced we've seen in forever - or at least, since Greenwood retired.

There's certainly a lot of skill there. Looks like its worth a go . (have to feel a bit for Ford...imagine what he could have done with a similar backline all these years )

Banquo wrote:There's certainly a lot of skill there. Looks like its worth a go . (have to feel a bit for Ford...imagine what he could have done with a similar backline all these years )

Agreed, but I DO see the point in getting as much game time into Smith as possible before RWC23.
It's not how I would have done it, but now the die's been cast, you've kinda got to follow through and play it out.

It's similar to when I did this in the Autumn, only this time with extra ball handlers

Out of interest, does anyone know how many of Ford's 55 starts didn't have Farrell getting in his way?
Off the top of my head, I've got 2 tests against Argentine during the 2017 Lions

Which Tyler wrote:Am I the only thinking a back line of
10. Smith
11. Mallins
12. Slade
13. Marchant
14. Daly
15. Steward

22. Ford
23. Atkinson

Looks the most balanced we've seen in forever - or at least, since Greenwood retired.

I'd put Nowell in at 14, and Daly on the bench ahead of Atkinson, but aside from that, I'd say that's perfect.

Puja