RugbyRebels

Oakboy wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2024 10:25 am

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2024 10:21 am Is that what it sounds like? Hard to know what 2kg on Earl's frame really looks like to be honest. Makes sense given our number 8 options to look at giving them a bit more freedom to roam and link play than what we've asked from Billy (and his stand-ins) the last few years.

Otherwise just pick Barbeary and forget about Earl, Dombrandt, Mercer etc.

Did you not notice that he looked lumpier? It seemed quite evident in the Italy game compared with the RWC, I thought.

I can't say I did but my ability to pay much attention to England games is still pretty low.

As Beasties suggests, being able to skip 5 seconds every time there's a scrum, box-kick or tedious series of replays would help, but it's so hard to avoid spoiling the results when you watch a game on delay. The break in the 6 nations always kills the momentum for me too. You can argue the players shouldn't have to play 5 internationals in a row every year, like with a world cup, but they'd be playing for their clubs anyway. Wirth the club games being limited around the 6 nations I thought that might change, but needs to align properly with T14/URC I guess.

Such a shame T Willis got injured when he did

francoisfou wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2024 8:48 am

Banquo wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2024 8:29 am

francoisfou wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2024 8:00 am

Yes, and he has been the mainstay of the French XV's backs' defence for a while now, but questions are starting to be asked of his form at club and Test level. However, he's a consummate professional and will undoubtedly apply himself to retrieve the form that's expected of him, and he'll need to as there are some recent U20 centres snapping at his heels (Gailleton of Pau and Depoortère of Bordeaux/Bègles)

No idea why you'd question his form based on his last two international outings, but fair enough.

I mentioned his club form too, Racing’s Champions’ Cup match at home to Harlequins before Christmas comes to mind, and am simply stating that questions are being asked.

sorry, should have said why 'one would question his international form'. I know you mentioned Racing, but they have issues elsewhere too.

Just watched the game having been away over the weekend with no internet. Wales were only in the game due to some interesting refereeing decisions. They didn't create a great deal and until Chessum's yellow card didn't look able to get out of their own half.

England's inability to go through phases and overly rigid adherence to the game plan made us a bit predictable. The back three looked dangerous when they got the ball but we rarely brought them into the line like we did last weekend. On the rare occasions we did Wales looked under pressure. We've got to the get the ball in Freeman's hands and awful lot more often.

Backrow still doesn't look balanced.

FKAS wrote: ↑Wed Feb 14, 2024 3:09 pm Just watched the game having been away over the weekend with no internet. Wales were only in the game due to some interesting refereeing decisions. They didn't create a great deal and until Chessum's yellow card didn't look able to get out of their own half.

England's inability to go through phases and overly rigid adherence to the game plan made us a bit predictable. The back three looked dangerous when they got the ball but we rarely brought them into the line like we did last weekend. On the rare occasions we did Wales looked under pressure. We've got to the get the ball in Freeman's hands and awful lot more often.

Backrow still doesn't look balanced.

agreed- this should be our focus, as we have a range of choices and styles available here (in theory).

Banquo wrote: ↑Wed Feb 14, 2024 3:50 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Wed Feb 14, 2024 3:09 pm Just watched the game having been away over the weekend with no internet. Wales were only in the game due to some interesting refereeing decisions. They didn't create a great deal and until Chessum's yellow card didn't look able to get out of their own half.

England's inability to go through phases and overly rigid adherence to the game plan made us a bit predictable. The back three looked dangerous when they got the ball but we rarely brought them into the line like we did last weekend. On the rare occasions we did Wales looked under pressure. We've got to the get the ball in Freeman's hands and awful lot more often.

Backrow still doesn't look balanced.

agreed- this should be our focus, as we have a range of choices and styles available here (in theory).

I agree, some tweaking here could really give us a lot more in game impact for little change. It's a shame we've had some injuries and suspensions at inopportune times.

Banquo wrote: ↑Wed Feb 14, 2024 3:50 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Wed Feb 14, 2024 3:09 pm Just watched the game having been away over the weekend with no internet. Wales were only in the game due to some interesting refereeing decisions. They didn't create a great deal and until Chessum's yellow card didn't look able to get out of their own half.

England's inability to go through phases and overly rigid adherence to the game plan made us a bit predictable. The back three looked dangerous when they got the ball but we rarely brought them into the line like we did last weekend. On the rare occasions we did Wales looked under pressure. We've got to the get the ball in Freeman's hands and awful lot more often.

Backrow still doesn't look balanced.

agreed- this should be our focus, as we have a range of choices and styles available here (in theory).

From the squad, I can't see how to improve it much. T'other Curry, perhaps? Outside the squad, there is probably a better unit - dropping all three. I doubt it will happen if we keep winning.

Oakboy wrote: ↑Wed Feb 14, 2024 4:32 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Wed Feb 14, 2024 3:50 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Wed Feb 14, 2024 3:09 pm Just watched the game having been away over the weekend with no internet. Wales were only in the game due to some interesting refereeing decisions. They didn't create a great deal and until Chessum's yellow card didn't look able to get out of their own half.

England's inability to go through phases and overly rigid adherence to the game plan made us a bit predictable. The back three looked dangerous when they got the ball but we rarely brought them into the line like we did last weekend. On the rare occasions we did Wales looked under pressure. We've got to the get the ball in Freeman's hands and awful lot more often.

Backrow still doesn't look balanced.

agreed- this should be our focus, as we have a range of choices and styles available here (in theory).

From the squad, I can't see how to improve it much. T'other Curry, perhaps? Outside the squad, there is probably a better unit - dropping all three. I doubt it will happen if we keep winning.

Underhill has been underwhelming, and Roots is just ok. You talk about ceilings, and his is pretty low imo. Its a shame Pearson has been binned, and CCS so inexperienced tbh. I'd have another look at Ben Curry for Underhill.

When did back row selection get so stupid? I blame Exeter…

6 is physical, workhorse, lineout option. 7 is mobile, turnaover threat. 8 is big carrier. We won a World Cup like this and saffas have won the last 2. Borthwick had it at Leicester as well.

6- CCS, Roots, Pearson
7- Earl, Underhill, curry x 2, pepper
8- Barbeary, Willis,

The squad is missing a big carrying 8. No idea why Barbeary hasn’t been called up.

P.S. fisalau and pollock can go play centre where they belong.

p/d wrote: ↑Mon Feb 05, 2024 6:04 pm I just hope Martin is back asap.

Chessum to bench.

Would really like to see AD at 8 alongside Earl at 7.

and Steward at 12.

Hopefully these knee injuries won't continue to be a problem for the lad during his career.

Martin is one I’m really going to struggle not to view as the unmovable saviour at tight-head lock after that SA game. He’s still very young to be providing the bulk of the grunt at lock, and has had his share of injury issues already, but he just looked so good.

I like Chessum, and he still has credit in the bank I think, but he doesn’t look as natural a partner to Itoje, and will likely continue developing as a 4 alongside Martin as a 5 anyway.

No pressure!

Captainhaircut wrote: ↑Wed Feb 14, 2024 8:07 pm When did back row selection get so stupid? I blame Exeter…

6 is physical, workhorse, lineout option. 7 is mobile, turnaover threat. 8 is big carrier. We won a World Cup like this and saffas have won the last 2. Borthwick had it at Leicester as well.

6- CCS, Roots, Pearson
7- Earl, Underhill, curry x 2, pepper
8- Barbeary, Willis,

The squad is missing a big carrying 8. No idea why Barbeary hasn’t been called up.

P.S. fisalau and pollock can go play centre where they belong.

CCS is an 8 all day long in my mind. I think he has the potential to be an excellent international 8 - I'd be inclined to select him there and just stick with him long term.

Captainhaircut wrote: ↑Wed Feb 14, 2024 8:07 pm When did back row selection get so stupid? I blame Exeter…

6 is physical, workhorse, lineout option. 7 is mobile, turnaover threat. 8 is big carrier. We won a World Cup like this and saffas have won the last 2. Borthwick had it at Leicester as well.

6- CCS, Roots, Pearson
7- Earl, Underhill, curry x 2, pepper
8- Barbeary, Willis,

The squad is missing a big carrying 8. No idea why Barbeary hasn’t been called up.

P.S. fisalau and pollock can go play centre where they belong.

Pearson is an openside for a start

Adam_P wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 8:06 am

Captainhaircut wrote: ↑Wed Feb 14, 2024 8:07 pm When did back row selection get so stupid? I blame Exeter…

6 is physical, workhorse, lineout option. 7 is mobile, turnaover threat. 8 is big carrier. We won a World Cup like this and saffas have won the last 2. Borthwick had it at Leicester as well.

6- CCS, Roots, Pearson
7- Earl, Underhill, curry x 2, pepper
8- Barbeary, Willis,

The squad is missing a big carrying 8. No idea why Barbeary hasn’t been called up.

P.S. fisalau and pollock can go play centre where they belong.

CCS is an 8 all day long in my mind. I think he has the potential to be an excellent international 8 - I'd be inclined to select him there and just stick with him long term.

I’d be starting CCS. Some players just look at home on the international stage, and he is one of them. Likewise Martin, Dan and Freeman

Pearson is not an openside for me. I know he’s played there almost solely but much like Jack Willis, I think he’s more of a six given his size and therefore reduced mobility (although he is mobile for a big lad). Plus we have loads of 7s so we need to be thinking about where these lads go. Looking at the A squad, I’d be surprised if Pearson didn’t play 6.

CCS could go 6 or 8. But given we have Barbeary, Fisalau and Willis at 8, I’d be looking for him to go in at 6.

p/d wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 8:52 am

Adam_P wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 8:06 am

Captainhaircut wrote: ↑Wed Feb 14, 2024 8:07 pm When did back row selection get so stupid? I blame Exeter…

6 is physical, workhorse, lineout option. 7 is mobile, turnaover threat. 8 is big carrier. We won a World Cup like this and saffas have won the last 2. Borthwick had it at Leicester as well.

6- CCS, Roots, Pearson
7- Earl, Underhill, curry x 2, pepper
8- Barbeary, Willis,

The squad is missing a big carrying 8. No idea why Barbeary hasn’t been called up.

P.S. fisalau and pollock can go play centre where they belong.

CCS is an 8 all day long in my mind. I think he has the potential to be an excellent international 8 - I'd be inclined to select him there and just stick with him long term.

I’d be starting CCS. Some players just look at home on the international stage, and he is one of them. Likewise Martin, Dan and Freeman

CCS would be one I'd give proper game time to over this 6 Nations and he's doing OK on that front so far. I'd be tempted to swap him and Roots, but I doubt Simple Baldyman will do that, though you never know. With Gorgeous George back I wouldn't be surprised to see Chessum go to 6. I wouldn't, but I wouldn't be surprised. Personally, I'd want CCS at 6 with George and Chessum at lock (start and bench either way round).

Captainhaircut wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 9:33 am Pearson is not an openside for me. I know he’s played there almost solely but much like Jack Willis, I think he’s more of a six given his size and therefore reduced mobility (although he is mobile for a big lad). Plus we have loads of 7s so we need to be thinking about where these lads go. Looking at the A squad, I’d be surprised if Pearson didn’t play 6.

CCS could go 6 or 8. But given we have Barbeary, Fisalau and Willis at 8, I’d be looking for him to go in at 6.

I'm not sure I'd call out lack of mobility for either Willis or Pearson. I do get either could potentially be that more hybrid flanker, but I'd hate to negate their differentiators in terms of breakdown nuisance.

Epaminondas Pules wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 9:46 am

p/d wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 8:52 am

Adam_P wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 8:06 am

CCS is an 8 all day long in my mind. I think he has the potential to be an excellent international 8 - I'd be inclined to select him there and just stick with him long term.

I’d be starting CCS. Some players just look at home on the international stage, and he is one of them. Likewise Martin, Dan and Freeman

Personally, I'd want CCS at 6 with George and Chessum at lock (start and bench either way round).

this

Banquo wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 9:55 am

Epaminondas Pules wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 9:46 am

p/d wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 8:52 am

I’d be starting CCS. Some players just look at home on the international stage, and he is one of them. Likewise Martin, Dan and Freeman

Personally, I'd want CCS at 6 with George and Chessum at lock (start and bench either way round).

this

Yep

I know Roots is not flavour of the month but I think he has been more effective than the other two in the back row. I'd cheerfully dump all three but I can't see how Roots is the main problem.

Oakboy wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 10:26 am I know Roots is not flavour of the month but I think he has been more effective than the other two in the back row. I'd cheerfully dump all three but I can't see how Roots is the main problem.

Nobody is saying he is the problem. I would drop Underhill and move Earl over and bring in Alex the Assassin or CCS

Oakboy wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 10:26 am I know Roots is not flavour of the month but I think he has been more effective than the other two in the back row. I'd cheerfully dump all three but I can't see how Roots is the main problem.

low ceiling Dors, low ceiling. Earl has been very good actually.....but I do think back row is where we have the most room to improve. That said, in general ruck speed is better- as noted, ball presentation has clearly been worked on......and ironically exposing 9 a little bit whilst he gets used to it!!

p/d wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 10:29 am

Oakboy wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 10:26 am I know Roots is not flavour of the month but I think he has been more effective than the other two in the back row. I'd cheerfully dump all three but I can't see how Roots is the main problem.

Nobody is saying he is the problem. I would drop Underhill and move Earl over and bring in Alex the Ass or CCS

Fixed

Oakboy wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 10:26 am I know Roots is not flavour of the month but I think he has been more effective than the other two in the back row. I'd cheerfully dump all three but I can't see how Roots is the main problem.

Not sure I'd say he's been more effective than Earl. He's had a good game and an average game in his two caps. He's still limited ad along with Underhill slow of the set piece

Oakboy wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 10:26 am I know Roots is not flavour of the month but I think he has been more effective than the other two in the back row. I'd cheerfully dump all three but I can't see how Roots is the main problem.

We've been getting a lot of very quick ball. We've lost three attacking rucks across 145 minutes of games so far. How are the back row the position where we need to "dump all three"?

I was looking at the Opta stats the other day and Roots is doing a very impressive job on the stats alone. He has made 13 carries, committing 2+ tacklers for 12 of them, and 69% have made it over the gainline (especially impressive when you consider some of the hard yards he's been asked to make). In attacking rucks, he's hit 37 with an 89% effectiveness. I can definitely see why Statistics Bastard likes him.

https://theanalyst.com/eu/2024/02/six-n ... stats-hub/

Puja