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Re: Team for the Summer
Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2024 9:35 am
by Numbers
Not sure why Tompkins is playing this one, he's not a 13 bt any stretch as was proved when he got gassed on the outside in that channel for the Aus try in the first test, in fact the fact the only player who has played regularly at 13 is Owen Watkin (and he is better 12) I would think that's an area that needs improvement. Maybe we'll see some of Louie Hennessey or Macs Page next season.
Re: Team for the Summer
Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2024 10:04 am
by Son of Mathonwy
I don't get the order of the centres here. Tompkins is a 12. Isn't James usually a 13? He's certainly better suited for it.
Cory Hill shouldn't be in Oz at all, let alone captain. Don't we have enough captains now?
I'd have given Beetham another shot at 10 here (or at least 22).
Plumtree at 7 is a bit random but okay, it's experience I guess.
Yay, we get to see Grace at last! Hope we don't come to regret not capping him.
Not sure what's kept Hardy out of the 9 shirt this tour.
Re: Team for the Summer
Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2024 11:02 am
by Which Tyler
Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Wed Jul 17, 2024 10:04 amYay, we get to see Grace at last! Hope we don't come to regret not capping him.
Wait - you're handing out caps for a match against a local club team?
Re: Team for the Summer
Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2024 11:07 am
by pompey-zebra
Which Tyler wrote: ↑Wed Jul 17, 2024 11:02 am
Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Wed Jul 17, 2024 10:04 amYay, we get to see Grace at last! Hope we don't come to regret not capping him.
Wait - you're handing out caps for a match against a local club team?
No I think he means we dont regret not capping him against Australia, in case he makes an impression but isnt then tied to Wales
Re: Team for the Summer
Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2024 11:15 am
by Sandydragon
Maybe we will see Thomas and Grady in the centres together. Or perhaps Grady and James?
Thomas at 12 outside Costelow is worth a look IMO, although the latter doesn’t fit Gatlands idea of a centres physical requirements.
Looks like the management debates giving Grace a run out but he wasn’t quite ready. I get that argument given the lack of game time. Hopefully being part of the squad will keep him motivated for Wales before we can cap him
Properly.
If only we had a second team!
Re: Team for the Summer
Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2024 11:52 am
by Which Tyler
pompey-zebra wrote: ↑Wed Jul 17, 2024 11:07 am
Which Tyler wrote: ↑Wed Jul 17, 2024 11:02 am
Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Wed Jul 17, 2024 10:04 amYay, we get to see Grace at last! Hope we don't come to regret not capping him.
Wait - you're handing out caps for a match against a local club team?
No I think he means we dont regret not capping him against Australia, in case he makes an impression but isnt then tied to Wales
My apologies - yep, that's obvious on re-reading. No idea why that's the conclusion I leapt to
Re: Team for the Summer
Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2024 1:00 pm
by pompey-zebra
Sandydragon wrote: ↑Wed Jul 17, 2024 11:15 am
If only we had a second team!
Some might argue we've not got a proper first team let alone a second!
Re: Team for the Summer
Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2024 1:09 pm
by Puja
pompey-zebra wrote: ↑Wed Jul 17, 2024 11:07 am
Which Tyler wrote: ↑Wed Jul 17, 2024 11:02 am
Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Wed Jul 17, 2024 10:04 amYay, we get to see Grace at last! Hope we don't come to regret not capping him.
Wait - you're handing out caps for a match against a local club team?
No I think he means we dont regret not capping him against Australia, in case he makes an impression but isnt then tied to Wales
I can't imagine he'll jump ship - seems quite tied to Wales emotionally and this tour shows that you're not ignoring him (far from it!), so I'd assume he's as good as tied.
Puja
Re: Team for the Summer
Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2024 1:32 pm
by Numbers
Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Wed Jul 17, 2024 10:04 am
I don't get the order of the centres here. Tompkins is a 12.
Isn't James usually a 13? He's certainly better suited for it.
Cory Hill shouldn't be in Oz at all, let alone captain. Don't we have enough captains now?
I'd have given Beetham another shot at 10 here (or at least 22).
Plumtree at 7 is a bit random but okay, it's experience I guess.
Yay, we get to see Grace at last! Hope we don't come to regret not capping him.
Not sure what's kept Hardy out of the 9 shirt this tour.
Nope he plays 12, again I don't know why Gatland has only taken one player who can play 13 in Owen Watkin, the positions are quite different defensively, hopefully when Joe Roberts is back fit he'll be the answer there as the cupboard is quite bare at 13 unless Gatland manages to persuade North out of retirement.
Not sure what you have against Cory Hill, I think h'es a very good athlete.
Beetham is injured.
Happy to see Regan Grace, hopefully we can get the ball in his hands.
The backrow is huge.
Re: Team for the Summer
Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2024 3:18 pm
by Son of Mathonwy
Puja wrote: ↑Wed Jul 17, 2024 1:09 pm
pompey-zebra wrote: ↑Wed Jul 17, 2024 11:07 am
Which Tyler wrote: ↑Wed Jul 17, 2024 11:02 am
Wait - you're handing out caps for a match against a local club team?
No I think he means we dont regret not capping him against Australia, in case he makes an impression but isnt then tied to Wales
I can't imagine he'll jump ship - seems quite tied to Wales emotionally and this tour shows that you're not ignoring him (far from it!), so I'd assume he's as good as tied.
Puja
That's
probably true. But the only thing 'as good as tied' is tied.
Re: Team for the Summer
Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2024 3:21 pm
by Son of Mathonwy
Which Tyler wrote: ↑Wed Jul 17, 2024 11:52 am
pompey-zebra wrote: ↑Wed Jul 17, 2024 11:07 am
Which Tyler wrote: ↑Wed Jul 17, 2024 11:02 am
Wait - you're handing out caps for a match against a local club team?
No I think he means we dont regret not capping him against Australia, in case he makes an impression but isnt then tied to Wales
My apologies - yep, that's obvious on re-reading. No idea why that's the conclusion I leapt to
No worries, just using the old double negative
.
Re: Team for the Summer
Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2024 3:38 pm
by Son of Mathonwy
Numbers wrote: ↑Wed Jul 17, 2024 1:32 pm
Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Wed Jul 17, 2024 10:04 am
I don't get the order of the centres here. Tompkins is a 12.
Isn't James usually a 13? He's certainly better suited for it.
Cory Hill shouldn't be in Oz at all, let alone captain. Don't we have enough captains now?
I'd have given Beetham another shot at 10 here (or at least 22).
Plumtree at 7 is a bit random but okay, it's experience I guess.
Yay, we get to see Grace at last! Hope we don't come to regret not capping him.
Not sure what's kept Hardy out of the 9 shirt this tour.
Nope he plays 12, again I don't know why Gatland has only taken one player who can play 13 in Owen Watkin, the positions are quite different defensively, hopefully when Joe Roberts is back fit he'll be the answer there as the cupboard is quite bare at 13 unless Gatland manages to persuade North out of retirement.
Not sure what you have against Cory Hill, I think h'es a very good athlete.
Beetham is injured.
Happy to see Regan Grace, hopefully we can get the ball in his hands.
The backrow is huge.
Yeah, you're right, James hasn't played 13 since the u20s. North's early retirement is a problem (although his injury would have presumably made him unavailable for this tour anyway). Hennessey plays 13 (most of the time) . . . but he's not getting much game time at Leicester.
Nothing against Hill's altheticism. It's his commitment to Wales I have a problem with.
Yeah, the back row is huge, and unbalanced. But whatever it's only a club side so we should be fine . . . ?
Re: Team for the Summer
Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2024 3:49 pm
by Numbers
Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Wed Jul 17, 2024 3:38 pm
Numbers wrote: ↑Wed Jul 17, 2024 1:32 pm
Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Wed Jul 17, 2024 10:04 am
I don't get the order of the centres here. Tompkins is a 12.
Isn't James usually a 13? He's certainly better suited for it.
Cory Hill shouldn't be in Oz at all, let alone captain. Don't we have enough captains now?
I'd have given Beetham another shot at 10 here (or at least 22).
Plumtree at 7 is a bit random but okay, it's experience I guess.
Yay, we get to see Grace at last! Hope we don't come to regret not capping him.
Not sure what's kept Hardy out of the 9 shirt this tour.
Nope he plays 12, again I don't know why Gatland has only taken one player who can play 13 in Owen Watkin, the positions are quite different defensively, hopefully when Joe Roberts is back fit he'll be the answer there as the cupboard is quite bare at 13 unless Gatland manages to persuade North out of retirement.
Not sure what you have against Cory Hill, I think h'es a very good athlete.
Beetham is injured.
Happy to see Regan Grace, hopefully we can get the ball in his hands.
The backrow is huge.
Yeah, you're right, James hasn't played 13 since the u20s. North's early retirement is a problem (although his injury would have presumably made him unavailable for this tour anyway). Hennessey plays 13 (most of the time) . . . but he's not getting much game time at Leicester.
Nothing against Hill's altheticism. It's his commitment to Wales I have a problem with.
Yeah, the back row is huge, and unbalanced. But whatever it's only a club side so we should be fine . . . ?
I don't think he's ever ruled himself out for selection.
The backrow whilst it seems unbalanced should be ok, Tshiunza has been playing 7 for Exeter quite a bit so should add a jackal threat and Plumtree is not a bad jackaller, I'm wondering if Gatland thinks the extra weight might help the scrum a bit too.
Re: Team for the Summer
Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2024 8:32 pm
by Son of Mathonwy
Numbers wrote: ↑Wed Jul 17, 2024 3:49 pm
Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Wed Jul 17, 2024 3:38 pm
Numbers wrote: ↑Wed Jul 17, 2024 1:32 pm
Nope he plays 12, again I don't know why Gatland has only taken one player who can play 13 in Owen Watkin, the positions are quite different defensively, hopefully when Joe Roberts is back fit he'll be the answer there as the cupboard is quite bare at 13 unless Gatland manages to persuade North out of retirement.
Not sure what you have against Cory Hill, I think h'es a very good athlete.
Beetham is injured.
Happy to see Regan Grace, hopefully we can get the ball in his hands.
The backrow is huge.
Yeah, you're right, James hasn't played 13 since the u20s. North's early retirement is a problem (although his injury would have presumably made him unavailable for this tour anyway). Hennessey plays 13 (most of the time) . . . but he's not getting much game time at Leicester.
Nothing against Hill's altheticism. It's his commitment to Wales I have a problem with.
Yeah, the back row is huge, and unbalanced. But whatever it's only a club side so we should be fine . . . ?
I don't think he's ever ruled himself out for selection.
The backrow whilst it seems unbalanced should be ok, Tshiunza has been playing 7 for Exeter quite a bit so should add a jackal threat and Plumtree is not a bad jackaller, I'm wondering if Gatland thinks the extra weight might help the scrum a bit too.
He moved to Japan when he had less than 60 caps. That's ruling yourself out.
Re: Team for the Summer
Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2024 11:03 pm
by Sandydragon
I thought Hill would be out of content as a result of the league he was recently playing in not being sufficient preparation for international rugby. To be fair, he doesn't seem to be that far off the pace.
I wonder what role he plays moving forward? We have a clutch of new and promising locks coming through, plus the likes of Rowlands and Beard who might make the next RWC (more of a stretch for Rowlands who is already 32, but a 35 year old lock is hardly unheard of at international level. Is Hill just there due to injury, or is Gatland looking to bring him back more full time? Personally, having gone through the pain of this season and seeing the likes of Jenkins, Tshiunza, Carter compete at international level to complement the locks we already have, Im not keen on reverting to Hill when younger players can continue to develop.
Re: Team for the Summer
Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2024 11:30 am
by pompey-zebra
Sandydragon wrote: ↑Wed Jul 17, 2024 11:03 pm
I thought Hill would be out of content as a result of the league he was recently playing in not being sufficient preparation for international rugby. To be fair, he doesn't seem to be that far off the pace.
I wonder what role he plays moving forward? We have a clutch of new and promising locks coming through, plus the likes of Rowlands and Beard who might make the next RWC (more of a stretch for Rowlands who is already 32, but a 35 year old lock is hardly unheard of at international level. Is Hill just there due to injury, or is Gatland looking to bring him back more full time? Personally, having gone through the pain of this season and seeing the likes of Jenkins, Tshiunza, Carter compete at international level to complement the locks we already have, Im not keen on reverting to Hill when younger players can continue to develop.
It may that Gatland is just building his resources, and Hill is still seen as a useful addition to those resources. He's usually performed well for Wales in the past, so if he's going to be available over the next 2-3 years ( perhaps not always to be relied upon, from past squad selections), it's probably not a bad idea. I think we'll see others of Hill's generation come back into contention, not necessarily to block the younger players, but to add to the available player pool. We've lost some experienced players over the last 2 years or so, so adding experience to a young group wont harm if managed properly.
Re: Team for the Summer
Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2024 12:41 pm
by Scrumhead
Numbers wrote: ↑Wed Jul 17, 2024 3:49 pm
Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Wed Jul 17, 2024 3:38 pm
Numbers wrote: ↑Wed Jul 17, 2024 1:32 pm
Nope he plays 12, again I don't know why Gatland has only taken one player who can play 13 in Owen Watkin, the positions are quite different defensively, hopefully when Joe Roberts is back fit he'll be the answer there as the cupboard is quite bare at 13 unless Gatland manages to persuade North out of retirement.
Not sure what you have against Cory Hill, I think h'es a very good athlete.
Beetham is injured.
Happy to see Regan Grace, hopefully we can get the ball in his hands.
The backrow is huge.
Yeah, you're right, James hasn't played 13 since the u20s. North's early retirement is a problem (although his injury would have presumably made him unavailable for this tour anyway). Hennessey plays 13 (most of the time) . . . but he's not getting much game time at Leicester.
Nothing against Hill's altheticism. It's his commitment to Wales I have a problem with.
Yeah, the back row is huge, and unbalanced. But whatever it's only a club side so we should be fine . . . ?
I don't think he's ever ruled himself out for selection.
The backrow whilst it seems unbalanced should be ok,
Tshiunza has been playing 7 for Exeter quite a bit so should add a jackal threat and Plumtree is not a bad jackaller, I'm wondering if Gatland thinks the extra weight might help the scrum a bit too.
I don’t really see Tshiunza as a jackal threat TBH.
Exeter don’t typically compete that hard for turnovers at the breakdown and the numbers players wear don’t actually correspond to a regular back row set up.
In their system the 7 is usually more of a blindside flanker profile mainly there to hit the first ruck. It’s usually Vermeulen or Tshiunza. The role their 6 plays is more like most teams’ 8 and then whoever is playing 8 is a bit more like the openside. They started this with Sam Simmonds and have kept it up with Fisilau.
Re: Team for the Summer
Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2024 1:03 pm
by Graigwen
I think this tour is turning out to be more experimental than I had expected. I don't think Gatland has prioritized winning matches at all costs. We can see a kit of parts emerging, except for centres, but the parts are not yet welded into a team.
I assumed when Hill reappeared he was to provide cover for the first game. I accept he has provided what Gatland was looking for in the past, I did not expect him to be part of the future.
Re: Team for the Summer
Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2024 9:47 am
by Numbers
Scrumhead wrote: ↑Thu Jul 18, 2024 12:41 pm
Numbers wrote: ↑Wed Jul 17, 2024 3:49 pm
Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Wed Jul 17, 2024 3:38 pm
Yeah, you're right, James hasn't played 13 since the u20s. North's early retirement is a problem (although his injury would have presumably made him unavailable for this tour anyway). Hennessey plays 13 (most of the time) . . . but he's not getting much game time at Leicester.
Nothing against Hill's altheticism. It's his commitment to Wales I have a problem with.
Yeah, the back row is huge, and unbalanced. But whatever it's only a club side so we should be fine . . . ?
I don't think he's ever ruled himself out for selection.
The backrow whilst it seems unbalanced should be ok,
Tshiunza has been playing 7 for Exeter quite a bit so should add a jackal threat and Plumtree is not a bad jackaller, I'm wondering if Gatland thinks the extra weight might help the scrum a bit too.
I don’t really see Tshiunza as a jackal threat TBH.
Exeter don’t typically compete that hard for turnovers at the breakdown and the numbers players wear don’t actually correspond to a regular back row set up.
In their system the 7 is usually more of a blindside flanker profile mainly there to hit the first ruck. It’s usually Vermeulen or Tshiunza. The role their 6 plays is more like most teams’ 8 and then whoever is playing 8 is a bit more like the openside. They started this with Sam Simmonds and have kept it up with Fisilau.
He's got more turnovers on the tour than Reffell..
Re: Team for the Summer
Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2024 10:35 am
by Graigwen
Cory Hill is out of Today's team. He is replaced in the starting XV by Daf Jenkins. The bench place is filled by Dewi Lake (!). This is not completely mad as Tshiunza is already in the back row.
.
Re: Team for the Summer
Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2024 10:49 am
by Graigwen
Hill's withdrawal is being reported as being for personal reasons, not injury. I guess that is the end of his Wales career.
It looks like we could se one of the hookers in the back row in the second half. (Unless of course the universal substitute Grady is used.)
.
Re: Team for the Summer
Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2024 11:05 am
by Sandydragon
I’d love to be watching this but for some reason boxing is on sky sports action not rugby as advertised
Re: Team for the Summer
Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2024 11:06 am
by pompey-zebra
Is the game actually on sky? The schedule shows international rugby union but currently the boxing is on.
Re: Team for the Summer
Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2024 11:12 am
by pompey-zebra
Sky reporting a world-wide IT problem which is causi g numerous system issues, which may be related.
Re: Team for the Summer
Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2024 11:15 am
by Sandydragon
FFS.
They need to put something on the actual channel. People have paid money to watch this game not some random boxing match