RugbyRebels

p/d wrote: ↑Sat May 03, 2025 2:01 pm

Oakboy wrote: ↑Sat May 03, 2025 12:40 pm

p/d wrote: ↑Sat May 03, 2025 9:31 am Freddie should have been given a go at 12 a season or so back. It was the perfect opportunity rather than plugging the midfield hole with Slade.

Still think he would excel there, but what do i know.

Let's give you one pick for the 12 shirt. Steward or Atkinson?

Seb has been the most consistent quality 12, even when at Wuss. Not sure if he can show much more. Either they like him or they don’t.
Steward has been in camp and has the test credentials at fb. However I think his strengths would suit 12 and his presumed weaknesses less, well, of a weakness.

Is that good enough?

Oakboy wrote: ↑Sat May 03, 2025 2:58 pm

p/d wrote: ↑Sat May 03, 2025 2:01 pm

Oakboy wrote: ↑Sat May 03, 2025 12:40 pm

Let's give you one pick for the 12 shirt. Steward or Atkinson?

Seb has been the most consistent quality 12, even when at Wuss. Not sure if he can show much more. Either they like him or they don’t.
Steward has been in camp and has the test credentials at fb. However I think his strengths would suit 12 and his presumed weaknesses less, well, of a weakness.

Is that good enough?

Good political reply. Avoid answering the question by answering with another one.

Scrumhead wrote: ↑Sat May 03, 2025 3:07 pm I don’t hate the idea but I don’t even think it’s an option unless it’s tested at club level. I think the idea he could just drop into a test match at 12 is somewhat fanciful. If we’re going to do that, I’d rather do it with Earl who has at least looked the part when slotting in there late in games.

Atkinson really deserves an opportunity to show he can cut it at test level. I’d back him to do well if he’s given a shot. If I was in charge, he’d have already had that chance.

FKAS wrote: ↑Sat May 03, 2025 3:53 pm

Scrumhead wrote: ↑Sat May 03, 2025 3:07 pm I don’t hate the idea but I don’t even think it’s an option unless it’s tested at club level. I think the idea he could just drop into a test match at 12 is somewhat fanciful. If we’re going to do that, I’d rather do it with Earl who has at least looked the part when slotting in there late in games.

Atkinson really deserves an opportunity to show he can cut it at test level. I’d back him to do well if he’s given a shot. If I was in charge, he’d have already had that chance.

I'm quite open to a 12. Atkinson, 13. Dingwall, 15. Steward combination on this tour with maybe a dabble of Steward at 12 in the last 5 mins or so as done with Earl just to test the theory. It would obviously have to go well in training as well.

Currently there's no games where Tigers are likely to take the chance of Steward at 12. Games are competitive and Tigers have centres. If in the AIs he isn't starting then releasing him back to Tigers for a PRC appearance might be a goer.

Scrumhead wrote: ↑Sat May 03, 2025 7:10 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Sat May 03, 2025 3:53 pm

Scrumhead wrote: ↑Sat May 03, 2025 3:07 pm I don’t hate the idea but I don’t even think it’s an option unless it’s tested at club level. I think the idea he could just drop into a test match at 12 is somewhat fanciful. If we’re going to do that, I’d rather do it with Earl who has at least looked the part when slotting in there late in games.

Atkinson really deserves an opportunity to show he can cut it at test level. I’d back him to do well if he’s given a shot. If I was in charge, he’d have already had that chance.

I'm quite open to a 12. Atkinson, 13. Dingwall, 15. Steward combination on this tour with maybe a dabble of Steward at 12 in the last 5 mins or so as done with Earl just to test the theory. It would obviously have to go well in training as well.

Currently there's no games where Tigers are likely to take the chance of Steward at 12. Games are competitive and Tigers have centres. If in the AIs he isn't starting then releasing him back to Tigers for a PRC appearance might be a goer.

I could get behind that.

Atkinson and Dingwall are just a bit too similar for me. Atkinson offers a bit more of a direct running threat, but I think it would be a little bit too much of a subtle pairing. Dingwall is the player in possession so I expect him to start at 12. I’d like to see Beard at 13 for a bit more size and contrast.

It’s unlikely that Saints or Quins make the play-offs now so there is probably an opportunity to try that combination in the England XV fixture. I think Gloucester will make it which might put Atkinson and Clark at a bit of a disadvantage from an England POV.

Scrumhead wrote: ↑Sun May 04, 2025 8:34 am Yeah … I’ve been hesitant to join the Pollock hype train but to be as influential as he was in a game of that magnitude is very, very impressive.

The Lions’ have a tradition of taking a bolter, but there’s argument to say he’s among the top performing back rows in Europe this season.

I’ve gone from dismissing talk of a Lions call-up as ridiculous to now thinking he’s got an excellent chance of touring and possibly even featuring in the tests.

Oakboy wrote: ↑Sun May 04, 2025 8:56 am

Scrumhead wrote: ↑Sun May 04, 2025 8:34 am Yeah … I’ve been hesitant to join the Pollock hype train but to be as influential as he was in a game of that magnitude is very, very impressive.

The Lions’ have a tradition of taking a bolter, but there’s argument to say he’s among the top performing back rows in Europe this season.

I’ve gone from dismissing talk of a Lions call-up as ridiculous to now thinking he’s got an excellent chance of touring and possibly even featuring in the tests.

Well said.

How good will he be in two or five years' time? Have we ever had a backrower who could burn off Prendergast like that? We'd have all been crowing about a winger doing it. How many 20 year old flankers would still be making vital contributions in the 75th minute (especially in a team defending a man short)?

So, good at all the basics; exceptional pace; outstanding stamina; infectiously good mental approach: can we English fans just get behind him, try not to find fault and watch him make progress? I really hope so. He IS that good.

Oakboy wrote: ↑Sun May 04, 2025 8:56 am

Scrumhead wrote: ↑Sun May 04, 2025 8:34 am Yeah … I’ve been hesitant to join the Pollock hype train but to be as influential as he was in a game of that magnitude is very, very impressive.

The Lions’ have a tradition of taking a bolter, but there’s argument to say he’s among the top performing back rows in Europe this season.

I’ve gone from dismissing talk of a Lions call-up as ridiculous to now thinking he’s got an excellent chance of touring and possibly even featuring in the tests.

Have we ever had a backrower who could burn off Prendergast like that?

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Sun May 04, 2025 11:21 am

Oakboy wrote: ↑Sun May 04, 2025 8:56 am

Scrumhead wrote: ↑Sun May 04, 2025 8:34 am Yeah … I’ve been hesitant to join the Pollock hype train but to be as influential as he was in a game of that magnitude is very, very impressive.

The Lions’ have a tradition of taking a bolter, but there’s argument to say he’s among the top performing back rows in Europe this season.

I’ve gone from dismissing talk of a Lions call-up as ridiculous to now thinking he’s got an excellent chance of touring and possibly even featuring in the tests.

Have we ever had a backrower who could burn off Prendergast like that?

Lol. We’ve got one right now and everybody hates him.

He actually does a ton of the things we all criticise Earl for, now I think about it. That’s not to say he can’t improve on them, but you make it sound like even questioning any of his skills is being dour or unpatriotic or something.

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Sun May 04, 2025 11:21 am Lol. We’ve got one right now and everybody hates him.

Banquo wrote: ↑Sun May 04, 2025 11:28 am

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Sun May 04, 2025 11:21 am

Oakboy wrote: ↑Sun May 04, 2025 8:56 am

Have we ever had a backrower who could burn off Prendergast like that?

Lol. We’ve got one right now and everybody hates him.

He actually does a ton of the things we all criticise Earl for, now I think about it. That’s not to say he can’t improve on them, but you make it sound like even questioning any of his skills is being dour or unpatriotic or something.

as before, he is only 20, and the physical side will develop. He's already better over the ball than Earl, and does more nitty gritty than him from what I've seen...I also like the remit of being able to choose what to do off his own bat. I also think he has more skill with the ball than Earl (who is overly harshly critiqued, prob because he behaves like a dick).

Saints showed some lovely handling touches when scoring yesterday, and the lines of running exceptional for a couple of the tries. I've only seen limited highlights so far, but looked a great game.

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Sun May 04, 2025 11:42 am

Banquo wrote: ↑Sun May 04, 2025 11:28 am

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Sun May 04, 2025 11:21 am

Lol. We’ve got one right now and everybody hates him.

He actually does a ton of the things we all criticise Earl for, now I think about it. That’s not to say he can’t improve on them, but you make it sound like even questioning any of his skills is being dour or unpatriotic or something.

as before, he is only 20, and the physical side will develop. He's already better over the ball than Earl, and does more nitty gritty than him from what I've seen...I also like the remit of being able to choose what to do off his own bat. I also think he has more skill with the ball than Earl (who is overly harshly critiqued, prob because he behaves like a dick).

Saints showed some lovely handling touches when scoring yesterday, and the lines of running exceptional for a couple of the tries. I've only seen limited highlights so far, but looked a great game.

I know he’s 20. Funnily enough it’s been mentioned already.

I’m not saying he has all the same flaws as Earl, but conceding pens at the breakdown, questionable tackle technique and being pretty loose with the ball around contact/transition are features of his game at the moment.

That’s not to say he isn’t looking fantastic in general, but I can see reasons Farrell potentially wouldn’t consider taking him with the Lions right now.

Danno wrote: ↑Sun May 04, 2025 12:01 pm Because he's a player you only ever want on your side

Banquo wrote: ↑Sun May 04, 2025 11:51 am

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Sun May 04, 2025 11:42 am

Banquo wrote: ↑Sun May 04, 2025 11:28 am

as before, he is only 20, and the physical side will develop. He's already better over the ball than Earl, and does more nitty gritty than him from what I've seen...I also like the remit of being able to choose what to do off his own bat. I also think he has more skill with the ball than Earl (who is overly harshly critiqued, prob because he behaves like a dick).

Saints showed some lovely handling touches when scoring yesterday, and the lines of running exceptional for a couple of the tries. I've only seen limited highlights so far, but looked a great game.

I know he’s 20. Funnily enough it’s been mentioned already.

I’m not saying he has all the same flaws as Earl, but conceding pens at the breakdown, questionable tackle technique and being pretty loose with the ball around contact/transition are features of his game at the moment.

That’s not to say he isn’t looking fantastic in general, but I can see reasons Farrell potentially wouldn’t consider taking him with the Lions right now.

You just didn't seem to be taking into account his youth and senior inexperience- hence his physicality when assessing him. Every decent 7 is going to concede penalties, its more a question of where and when; tackle technique almost certainly driven by physical ability at the moment tbh.

BTW what's with the 'everybody hates him' schtick?

Banquo wrote: ↑Sun May 04, 2025 12:03 pm

Danno wrote: ↑Sun May 04, 2025 12:01 pm Because he's a player you only ever want on your side

Ok....

fivepointer wrote: ↑Sun May 04, 2025 9:01 am From an England POV I want him in Argentina but his claim to a Lions call up seems very strong.

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Sun May 04, 2025 12:08 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Sun May 04, 2025 11:51 am

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Sun May 04, 2025 11:42 am

I know he’s 20. Funnily enough it’s been mentioned already.

I’m not saying he has all the same flaws as Earl, but conceding pens at the breakdown, questionable tackle technique and being pretty loose with the ball around contact/transition are features of his game at the moment.

That’s not to say he isn’t looking fantastic in general, but I can see reasons Farrell potentially wouldn’t consider taking him with the Lions right now.

You just didn't seem to be taking into account his youth and senior inexperience- hence his physicality when assessing him. Every decent 7 is going to concede penalties, its more a question of where and when; tackle technique almost certainly driven by physical ability at the moment tbh.

BTW what's with the 'everybody hates him' schtick?

Does one comment qualify as schtick? I was talking about Earl, in response to having a forward who could skin Prendergast. He regularly does things like but all people do is complain about him.

Along with Hill, Croft, Simmonds etc. there’s always some quick guys who are rapid. I’d love to know how Pollock compares. His acceleration is crazy.

Probably worth noting you’d back a current day Dan Cole to round Sam Prendergast too. He is quite hilariously bad at tackling.

Again I’m not questioning where Pollock will get to, and possibly very soon, but it’s not being a hater just to acknowledge there is plenty for him to work on.

Oakboy wrote: ↑Sun May 04, 2025 8:56 am

Scrumhead wrote: ↑Sun May 04, 2025 8:34 am Yeah … I’ve been hesitant to join the Pollock hype train but to be as influential as he was in a game of that magnitude is very, very impressive.

The Lions’ have a tradition of taking a bolter, but there’s argument to say he’s among the top performing back rows in Europe this season.

I’ve gone from dismissing talk of a Lions call-up as ridiculous to now thinking he’s got an excellent chance of touring and possibly even featuring in the tests.

Well said.

How good will he be in two or five years' time? Have we ever had a backrower who could burn off Prendergast like that? We'd have all been crowing about a winger doing it. How many 20 year old flankers would still be making vital contributions in the 75th minute (especially in a team defending a man short)?

So, good at all the basics; exceptional pace; outstanding stamina; infectiously good mental approach: can we English fans just get behind him, try not to find fault and watch him make progress? I really hope so. He IS that good.