RugbyRebels

I've seen everything, although it was largely a symbolic vote- Barclay, Brexit secretary, spoke in favour of extending A50 in the debate, then voted against it.

Banquo wrote:I've seen everything, although it was largely a symbolic vote- Barclay, Brexit secretary, spoke in favour of extending A50 in the debate, then voted against it.

Which Tyler wrote:

Banquo wrote:I've seen everything, although it was largely a symbolic vote- Barclay, Brexit secretary, spoke in favour of extending A50 in the debate, then voted against it.

Love that fillum

Mellsblue wrote:A lot of the ERG are looking for an excuse to climb down. If Cox and reviewed his own cod piece in a more positive manner or the EU had given the UK a unilateral way out then it may/would have been a lot closer last night. Don’t forget that May has immunity from a leadership challenge for a longtime yet. However, she did get to keep no 10 by promising not to contest the next election as leader.

The crux is that ERG want a Brexiteers as leader when negotiations begin during the transition period and May can still be in office for the period of those negotiations unless ousted, which isn’t in the ERG’s gift. They want things moving towards Canada straight away, rather than edging towards Norway.

I *had* forgotten that she was immune from another leadership challenge - that changes things entirely.

Banquo wrote:

Which Tyler wrote:Big one coming up

Defeated by 2
Parliament votes not to take back control after all

Then Corbyn defeated and one of his front bench resigns over referendum.

Could not make this up; think they might be edging towards May's deal inchwise.

Corbyn is being a colossal dickhead over this issue. His party as a whole and most of his supporters are pro-Remain, but he had to be bullied into supporting a second referendum in the first place and has now dropped all pretence at supporting it now that a General Election seems likely again.

His entire plan now appears to be letting the Conservatives crash the country with No Deal so he can ride in as a saviour and have enough of a majority to push through his policies. Politically, very savvy, but hardly the best thing for the country.

Puja

In fairness to Corbyn it's more he's a colossal prat period, he's not doing it on purpose just when it comes to brexit

What is incredible - well, it should be incredible, but isn't - May is not immediately going back to the EU to agree an extension. She's having a third vote on her deal next week. Is this triple jeopardy or something? Is this person person stubborn to the point - beyond the point, in fact - of stupidity? Yes, we are a week closer to the wire, but that is still not going to scare the MPs into accepting the deal.

I fully expect her to have a fourth vote on March 28th.

Puja wrote: Corbyn is being a colossal dickhead over this issue. His party as a whole and most of his supporters are pro-Remain, but he had to be bullied into supporting a second referendum in the first place and has now dropped all pretence at supporting it now that a General Election seems likely again.

His entire plan now appears to be letting the Conservatives crash the country with No Deal so he can ride in as a saviour and have enough of a majority to push through his policies. Politically, very savvy, but hardly the best thing for the country.

Puja

In Corbyn’s defence (there’s something I never thought I’d type) there are as many leave voting Lab constituencies as there are Remain constituencies. He has a tight rope to walk. People keeping going on about how many Labour members there are etc etc but that’s moot on polling day. Corbyn needs strong Leave areas to vote Labour if he wants to win a GE.

As for your second para....... I’ve been trying to tell you that for months.

Corbin is of course a brexiteer himself so really doesn’t care if we leave with no deal. European rules might get in the way of some of his plans. But far better to achieve that aim with the Tories taking all the blame.

Sandydragon wrote:Corbin is of course a brexiteer himself so really doesn’t care if we leave with no deal. European rules might get in the way of some of his plans. But far better to achieve that aim with the Tories taking all the blame.

His strategy has always been clear, and is masterly in isolation. But he may have no party to lead soon, other than Momentum-ites.

Son of Mathonwy wrote:What is incredible - well, it should be incredible, but isn't - May is not immediately going back to the EU to agree an extension. She's having a third vote on her deal next week. Is this triple jeopardy or something? Is this person person stubborn to the point - beyond the point, in fact - of stupidity? Yes, we are a week closer to the wire, but that is still not going to scare the MPs into accepting the deal.

I fully expect her to have a fourth vote on March 28th.

Will Bercow allow the bill back in the same session?

canta_brian wrote:

Son of Mathonwy wrote:What is incredible - well, it should be incredible, but isn't - May is not immediately going back to the EU to agree an extension. She's having a third vote on her deal next week. Is this triple jeopardy or something? Is this person person stubborn to the point - beyond the point, in fact - of stupidity? Yes, we are a week closer to the wire, but that is still not going to scare the MPs into accepting the deal.

I fully expect her to have a fourth vote on March 28th.

Will Bercow allow the bill back in the same session?

If he does there’s a good chance he’ll get on TV......so probably yes.

Mellsblue wrote:

canta_brian wrote:

Son of Mathonwy wrote:What is incredible - well, it should be incredible, but isn't - May is not immediately going back to the EU to agree an extension. She's having a third vote on her deal next week. Is this triple jeopardy or something? Is this person person stubborn to the point - beyond the point, in fact - of stupidity? Yes, we are a week closer to the wire, but that is still not going to scare the MPs into accepting the deal.

I fully expect her to have a fourth vote on March 28th.

Will Bercow allow the bill back in the same session?

If he does there’s a good chance he’ll get on TV......so probably yes.

He's hardly likely to get no coverage if he refuses the government, but my guess is he'd acknowledge a lot of MPs have already voted for it so the house is interested and it'd be a huge intervention to block so he'll allow it. But whilst I can't see him blocking the third time's a charm vote I can see him saying three is enough and you're not going to ignore parliament and bring it back a fourth time in the final hours, so lose again and it's time to move on

Nick Boles forced out of the Tory party for not being Brexity enough, no matter he's voted with his party for brexit. I wouldn't be surprised if he also wasn't straight enough for the blue rinse ensemble, but they may care to deny that. One can only hope those forcing him out cease their coffin dodging in short order

This:

MATT CHORLEY
march 16 2019, 12:01am, the times
Let me tell you which people in politics I can’t stand: Everyone

matt chorley


It’s always late at night. Usually after drink has been taken. And often at party conferences. But once or twice a year I end up tweeting: “I’ll tell you who I can’t stand in politics: everyone.” And then a few hours later I delete it.

This week I have felt like screaming it at the top of my voice, like that man who stands outside parliament shouting “Stop! Brexit!” every day. He’s first on the list. Idiot. Who else?

People, mainly Labour people, who raise tedious quibbles about the backstop but have Ode to Joy as a ringtone, invite Andrew Adonis round for supper and will never vote for any deal in a million years.

People who would struggle to negotiate their way out of wet jeans but gather round to offer their moronic advice, as if Theresa May has spilt red wine on the carpet. Throw white wine on it! Get salt! Rice! A legally binding codicil!

People who put up gazebos on College Green and invite MPs to broadcast to an ungrateful nation. It is either clever dicks not saying what they really think, or morons saying what they really think. There should be a ban on MPs appearing on television until Brexit is sorted. That’ll focus tiny minds.


People who used to be in the army and won’t stop talking about it. Tory Mark Francois was at it this week, explaining why he would do a better job than the PM: “I was in the army, I wasn’t trained to lose.” To be clear, he was in the Territorials, so he could do the negotiations but only on Saturdays.

People who write Twitter threads that start: “This is where I think we are.” I know where you are. Disappearing up your own backstop.

People who write tweets in Latin, as Jacob Rees-Mogg did this week, posting “Dies iræ, dies illa,” without adding “push pineapple, shake the tree”.

People on Twitter. All of them.

People in the Commons who say “the public watching this at home”. Nobody is watching. Nobody has said anything new, interesting or remotely helpful in these debates for about two years. People are just tuning in for the votes, and then all texting me to say: “I don’t understand what’s happening.” No one does.

People who care that Vince Cable has resigned. It’s like hearing that the lead singer of Showaddywaddy has quit, and thinking “Oh, I didn’t know they were still going”.

People’s Vote people who say they want a People’s Vote but tell MPs not to vote for a People’s Vote, then having lost the vote are now demanding another vote. Predictably.

People who say “nothing has changed” like they are the first person to make this joke.

People who feel sorry for Theresa May, as if she was in town one afternoon and got stopped by someone with a clipboard and accidentally signed up to be prime minister and now can’t cancel the direct debit. It’s not her fault she is surrounded by morons, but it is her fault that they outfox her on a daily basis.

People who say “ooh, it’s exciting isn’t it?” No it isn’t. I sat on the train heading into Westminster one morning this week and felt I could cry. It’s all so bloody depressing.

I hate them all. Everyone. Including me. I hate myself. I’ll probably tweet it.

Yep, as someone said, for better or worse, Brexit has confirmed what useless fckrs a huge number of MPs are. As well as exposing how ignorant and nasty the general populace is capable of being,

twitchy wrote:

Even the loony leavers are bored by it all now.

Looks like Parliament (Bercow) won't allow the same motion twice in one session.

He allows that there was enough negotiation and change between January and March, with new documents and new advice.


He states precedent going back a mere 4 centuries and Rei forced by (IIRC) a dozen different speaker's.
ETA, now an article up: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47614074

Brexiteers suggesting the same rule should apply to amendments - specifically stated the (rejected) amendment (to a specific motion) last week that parliament take control of itself for a day, rather than being told what to talk about by the government - but obviously thinking about the (rejected) amendment (to a specific motion) that a second referendum should happen.

May's spokesman releases a statement to say that he's not in a position to release a statement.

May's legal advisor (if I've got that right) suggests dissolving parliament for a few days and starting a new session.

Lots of Tories complaining that Bercow isn't helping them (which isn't his job). Shades of Haskell thinking the ref should coach them how to adapt to a law he didn't know about.





Nothing boring about politics this last 7 days

If I've wrapped my head around all of this correctly, options going forward are:


Parliament is paralysed, and we'd drop out with no deal next Friday => probable violence on the streets.


Parliament "porogues" (new word for the day, dunno if I've spelt it right), reopens next week with a new session => no violence on the street as no-one knows WTF is going on. May's deal gets a 3rd hearing. May probably loses as she'd lose what few MPs actually care about how our, precedent etc.


May asks for a short extension to hold a general election => probably rejected as it doesn't solve anything.


May asks for a short extension to allow a second referendum => probably granted, result of 2nd vote probably depends on the weather.


May asks for a long extension in order to renegotiate from scratch => probably granted on condition that Mays red lines are withdrawn.


May asks for extension, but Farage ('s rupels) convince Italy to veto the extension => article 50 revoked, possible more minor violence on the streets.


May asks for extension, but Farage ('s rupels) convince Italy to veto the extension => drop out with no deal, see point 1, probable violence on the streets.

Ballsy from Bercow to put all that on the line. I do totally agree on these endless and meaningless amendments though. Sounds like we are fecked.

Gawd, a general election would be a nightmare. But it all is.

Which Tyler wrote:If I've wrapped my head around all of this correctly, options going forward are:

You've hit the nail on the head about everything except your spelling of prorogues.

Puja

Banquo wrote:Ballsy from Bercow to put all that on the line. I do totally agree on these endless and meaningless amendments though. Sounds like we are fecked.

Gawd, a general election would be a nightmare. But it all is.

Conservatives complaining that if they'd know it was the last chance, they might have voted differently and how they need to have a chance to have their say now that they know the consequences.

Meanwhile, a second referendum is still undemocratic...

Puja

Puja wrote:

Banquo wrote:Ballsy from Bercow to put all that on the line. I do totally agree on these endless and meaningless amendments though. Sounds like we are fecked.

Gawd, a general election would be a nightmare. But it all is.

Conservatives complaining that if they'd know it was the last chance, they might have voted differently and how they need to have a chance to have their say now that they know the consequences.

Meanwhile, a second referendum is still undemocratic...

Puja

They had, like what, 2 weeks before Brexit Day? How many more chances to vote on a deal did they think they had?