RugbyRebels

Which Tyler wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2024 7:38 pm https://www.washingtonpost.com/election ... n-results/

Top Republicans, led by Trump, refuse to commit to accept 2024 election results

One possible vice-presidential candidate, Sen. Tim Scott (R-S.C.), repeatedly declined to say whether he will accept the outcome.

I heard a recording of that interview. A simple question which he just couldn’t answer properly without upsetting the King of Orange. The Republican Party is in dire need of some backbone.

Sandydragon wrote: ↑Fri May 10, 2024 7:45 pm

Which Tyler wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2024 7:38 pm https://www.washingtonpost.com/election ... n-results/

Top Republicans, led by Trump, refuse to commit to accept 2024 election results

One possible vice-presidential candidate, Sen. Tim Scott (R-S.C.), repeatedly declined to say whether he will accept the outcome.

I heard a recording of that interview. A simple question which he just couldn’t answer properly without upsetting the King of Orange. The Republican Party is in dire need of some backbone.

I kind of feel: if you don't accept the rules why are you playing the game?

Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2024 4:44 pm

Sandydragon wrote: ↑Fri May 10, 2024 7:45 pm

Which Tyler wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2024 7:38 pm https://www.washingtonpost.com/election ... n-results/

I heard a recording of that interview. A simple question which he just couldn’t answer properly without upsetting the King of Orange. The Republican Party is in dire need of some backbone.

I kind of feel: if you don't accept the rules why are you playing the game?

Because they're hopeful of winning even if they lose?

Puja

Puja wrote: ↑Sun May 12, 2024 12:27 am

Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2024 4:44 pm

Sandydragon wrote: ↑Fri May 10, 2024 7:45 pm

I heard a recording of that interview. A simple question which he just couldn’t answer properly without upsetting the King of Orange. The Republican Party is in dire need of some backbone.

I kind of feel: if you don't accept the rules why are you playing the game?

Because they're hopeful of winning even if they lose?

Puja

To use a finance analogy they see democracy as an option: they only exercise when it's in the money. They only want the upside.

The jury has a verdict in the Trump trial, but it won't be announced for another half hour. I don't know if I can face his triumphant crowing if/when he's acquitted.

Puja

Oh my fucking god, they found him guilty. I genuinely did not expect that.

Puja

Guilty on all 34 counts. Surely to absolute fuck he cannot be voted in as president now?

Look like a constant affected Churchill-like scowl and tough man eyes for the cameras is no substitute for a grown up actual legal defence. Fucking hilarious. I hope he goes inside, even for 6 months. Sometime around November would be ideal.

A test of the sanity of the USA awaits in November. Assuming the Republican party fails that test in July and selects him.

No doubt Trump's base will be even more fired up for Trump the martyr, but they can't vote more. The question is whether the swing voters will be willing to vote for a criminal . . . or whether they see the conviction as irrelevant or politically motivated.

My instinct is that this is good for Biden. But my instinct was that the USA wouldn't have have elected Trump the first time. Who knows what they'll do? It makes a coup or civil war more likely (if still unlikely . . . I hope?).

Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2024 11:41 pm A test of the sanity of the USA awaits in November. Assuming the Republican party fails that test in July and selects him.

No doubt Trump's base will be even more fired up for Trump the martyr, but they can't vote more. The question is whether the swing voters will be willing to vote for a criminal . . . or whether they see the conviction as irrelevant or politically motivated.

My instinct is that this is good for Biden. But my instinct was that the USA wouldn't have have elected Trump the first time. Who knows what they'll do? It makes a coup or civil war more likely (if still unlikely . . . I hope?).

If only the Dems has a more appealing candidate.

In any sensible universe trump would be dead in the water but somehow he’s still in the race, or at least was let’s see how the opinion polls change after this verdict.

I think anything is possible. This may actually improve his polling of the victimhood thing catches on and more Dem support is pulled away from Biden over Gaza.

morepork wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2024 11:27 pm Look like a constant affected Churchill-like scowl and tough man eyes for the cameras is no substitute for a grown up actual legal defence. Fucking hilarious. I hope he goes inside, even for 6 months. Sometime around November would be ideal.

Presumably, if he were incarcerated that would mean he couldn’t campaign, even virtually from the prison?

Sandydragon wrote: ↑Fri May 31, 2024 9:23 am

morepork wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2024 11:27 pm Look like a constant affected Churchill-like scowl and tough man eyes for the cameras is no substitute for a grown up actual legal defence. Fucking hilarious. I hope he goes inside, even for 6 months. Sometime around November would be ideal.

Presumably, if he were incarcerated that would mean he couldn’t campaign, even virtually from the prison?

He won't ever see the inside of a prison cell.

As an ex-president, he has a Secret Service escort, which would be entirely incompatible with Prison, so house arrest at Mar A Largo is the best anyone can hope for.
As a rich white man in America, convicted of a white-collar crime, short-sentence house arrest is the best anyone can hope for.

On top of that, this surely isn't the end of the road, final decision will be delayed by appeal after appeal after appeal, until either he's elected president and pardons himself, or it reaches the Supreme Court where his cronies will ignore the constitution and A] not recuse themselves and B] let him off, probably without even bothering with a fig-leaf of respectability (same reason he's now allowed to stand for president despite being expressly forbidden by the constitution, which does NOT say "a convicted felon cannot stand for public office... except for president, that one's fine")

You’re probably right WT and the impartiality of the Supreme Court is now badly broken. Many Republicans using the letter of the law to avoid making him their enemy, Mitch McConnell springs to mind in the impeachment debates. The Republican leadership has signed up for a cult.

In terms of the upcoming election Stateside, a huge amount will (presumably) depend on the judge of the first appeal case.

If Trump is under house arrest during campaign season, and unable to hold his cult rallies, it will make a huge difference to his chances there.

If the appeal judge thinks "innocent until proven-to-me that you're guilty" and "low risk of flight, low risk of (physically) harming others" and he's free to rally whilst the appeals are ongoing, then this conviction is probably going to add energy to his base (and implicit threat to his opponents).

I know this really ought to be a side-issue from his conviction for criminal activity, but it's impossible to parse them.

I don't think he can pardon himself for this as it's a state-level case. If an appeal was able to reach the conservative-controlled supreme court, of course, he'd be free as a bird.

I think appeals processes would keep him out of jail till the election.

It's all about how those swing voters in those swing states see the conviction.

I find it difficult to judge since, to me, Trump has always been totally unfit for office.

But even the appeals process would keep him away from the campaign trail, at least to a degree, since he would need to be in court.

A point made on a podcast earlier was that this was the weakest case on paper, and it’s just returned 34 guilty verdicts. The secret documents case might be more open and shut but perhaps less damning since every president hoards papers, so the nuance might be lost. The Heorgia case is really interesting as that’s another state case that Trump can’t pardon himself from. Hopefully the prosecutors can keep themselves out of the spotlight long enough to get it to trial.

I don't believe this will go to the US supreme court, there isn't a constitutional question to be answered here and he wasn't president when the crimes were committed. No expert but why would they even hear this case?

I think this is a good thing for Biden in that a hung jury or not guilty verdict would have been more fuel for Trump. Now he's a convicted felon.

Who'd want to be a Trump defense lawyer? Rather than focusing on winning the case they were forced to spend their time attacking Stormy Daniels and Cowen cause Trump couldn't as he was gagged. Had to insist sex didn't happen (no doubt ordered by Trump) opening them up to Stormy Daniels re-telling the details of the encounter in the court room. Beautiful, Trump fucks Trump by being Trump in court, again. Next case please.

Would be great if melania sent in the divorce papers now

She was pregnant when this was going on apparently

Also I see the casual trump supporters are claiming this is good for him but realistically it's not. If anyone hasn't bought into the poor me bullshit up to this point then they definitely aren't now and he'll lose marginals. (Biden should be doing is utmost for a ceasefire and he'd have this in the bag)

paddy no 11 wrote: ↑Fri May 31, 2024 3:04 pm Would be great if melania sent in the divorce papers now

She was pregnant when this was going on apparently

I’d love to know the details of their prenup or what ever contract they have now. She’s hardly been seen with Trump for a very long time; something tells me that he is paying her, or her son, a lot of money for her not to walk away.

Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2024 11:41 pm A test of the sanity of the USA awaits in November. Assuming the Republican party fails that test in July and selects him.

No doubt Trump's base will be even more fired up for Trump the martyr, but they can't vote more. The question is whether the swing voters will be willing to vote for a criminal . . . or whether they see the conviction as irrelevant or politically motivated.

My instinct is that this is good for Biden. But my instinct was that the USA wouldn't have have elected Trump the first time. Who knows what they'll do? It makes a coup or civil war more likely (if still unlikely . . . I hope?).

He didn’t win the vote. The Civil War hangover of the electoral college gave the fat cunt water wings

morepork wrote: ↑Fri May 31, 2024 4:23 pm

Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2024 11:41 pm A test of the sanity of the USA awaits in November. Assuming the Republican party fails that test in July and selects him.

No doubt Trump's base will be even more fired up for Trump the martyr, but they can't vote more. The question is whether the swing voters will be willing to vote for a criminal . . . or whether they see the conviction as irrelevant or politically motivated.

My instinct is that this is good for Biden. But my instinct was that the USA wouldn't have have elected Trump the first time. Who knows what they'll do? It makes a coup or civil war more likely (if still unlikely . . . I hope?).

He didn’t win the vote. The Civil War hangover of the electoral college gave the fat cunt water wings

He won it, US-style. A shining example of democracy.

So he will appeal. No surprise I guess since accepting the verdict would have meant accepting it wasn’t a sham trial as he argued throughout. I wonder how the appeal and his need to be in court will impact other trials? I’ve lost track a bit of which ones are likely to be heard prior to the election.

Sandydragon wrote: ↑Sat Jun 01, 2024 8:35 am So he will appeal. No surprise I guess since accepting the verdict would have meant accepting it wasn’t a sham trial as he argued throughout. I wonder how the appeal and his need to be in court will impact other trials? I’ve lost track a bit of which ones are likely to be heard prior to the election.

All the other ones are gonna be delayed until after the election - the documents one has a Trump-friendly judge who is delaying, the federal one has gone to the Supreme Court to see if he's completely immune. The Georgia one was the only one that could've made the deadline, and that's been stymied by the prosecutors' inability to keep it in their pants.

Puja