Russia 2018

[rowan]

The only thing I'm disagreeing with is the post-match claim Japan had fielded a second string side (or even rested any players) for a crucial World Cup tie that could easily have seen them eliminated, and that they did so because they were such geniuses they foretold precisely a 1-0 win to Colombia in a game that saw Senegal awarded an early penalty (subsequently overruled by video replay). That's just not remotely plausible. What happened was they selected their best defense-oriented team to avoid a loss, rather than go for another win, and that very nearly backfired in both games, as they went down a goal and Senegal almost received a golden opportunity to go 1-up. In the end the Japanese almost shot themselves in the foot but got a very fortunate let-off. I'm not disagreeing with any of your comments about the late sub and lack of resolve in the Poland-Japan game. I think it was clear they were happy to settle with that result, knowing by that time that a 2-1 win to Colombia - or any other score that would've knocked them out - was highly unlikely. The Poles, leading 1-0, seemed content to oblige them and go home with a win. Japan is an average side, not a super power in a position to be able to gamble on results, as it would have us believe.

[Galfon]

Arg put to the sword by the pacy free-flowing French, Mbappe to the fore with 2 so far.
4 - 2 after 74 min.
Cynical Arg got lucky and were 2 - 1 but unable to hold possession.(di Maria's bolt from the blue something special though)
Messi pretty anoni-mouse in wide role.

[rowan]

France are my pick to win the tournament and still going strong. I was hardly alone on that count however. I was hoping Argentina would win, but heads went down after France's 4th goal, even though there was plenty of time left. I suspected all along Argentina's win over defensively-loose Nigeria was just a flash in the pan. Argentina still haven't figured out how to use Messi the way Barca does. France will meet Portugal or Uruguay next up, which should be good, then probably either Brazil or Belgium in the semis. On the other side of the draw, Spain's unimpressive tie with Morocco could suggest a surprise finalist might come through. The winner of England v Colombia might have a chance there...although Croatia and Sweden are also in good form...

[Galfon]

FT Fra 4 - 3 Arg..late Aguerro goal not enough.
Bye Messi, hello Mbappe..
top contest.

[rowan]

T'was a good game. I was watching the rugby (African RWC qualifiers - live in Global Rugby Thread) more than the football, but I saw all the goals, and there were some pearlers for sure. Just a pity it all became a little inevitable in the 4th 1/4, notwithstanding the injury time consolation goal. Argentina actually had a gilt-edged opportunity to tie it in the last act of the game, but it wasn't their day. Frogs march on...

[twitchy]

Incredible game. This WC has been special.

[rowan]

Portugal were a one-man team, and that man couldn't do a lot today. I have to back Uruguay as a non-European side, the winning goal was a pleasure to watch, and they really do know how to fight their way through these crucial games, but they have to be the bottom of my list as far as non-European teams go, and today they produced their usual niggly performance full of theatrics. So they will face France while Messi's Argentina and Ronaldo's Portugal go home! Anyway, 2 great games featuring European teams against their SAmerican counterparts, and the honors were even. A lot of superb goals were scored today.

[Galfon]

..and rumbles on!
Uru 2 - 1 Por
Another GOAT-with-a-goatie goes home, and deservedly so.
Uruguay showing real steel and determination and no shortage of skill to see this one out.
First goal conceded by them in 7 games, and in this calendar year.
Suarez showing what a world class player he is..clever, crafty and ran his socks off.

[rowan]

Today might've been the last time we'll see Messi & Ronaldo at the World Cup, and it was somewhat forgettable . . .

[cashead]

The only thing I'm disagreeing with is the post-match claim Japan had fielded a second string side (or even rested any players) for a crucial World Cup tie that could easily have seen them eliminated, and that they did so because they were such geniuses they foretold precisely a 1-0 win to Colombia in a game that saw Senegal awarded an early penalty (subsequently overruled by video replay). That's just not remotely plausible.

Literally no one other than you is saying that you dense fuck. Here, I’ll type it slowly for you, so you can comprehend.

Nishino rests several key players going into the Poland game, probably expecting the Poles to be shit. You can dispute this all you want, it’s clear to see that there was a significant contingent from the starting XI and key subs benched with the intention of resting them.

Poland goes 1-0 ahead.

Now, here’s the crucial part:
With about 10 minutes to go, and with Colombia ahead 1-0, he decides to gamble on that score holding.
Hasebe, the captain is sent on with instructions to keep the score 1-0, and to take no further risks.
Colombia wins 1-0.
Poland is happy to settle with 1-0, Japan goes through on the fair play tie breaker.

[rowan]

Looks like Daffy Duck just turned up with the little black cloud over his head! This guy really amuses me

Round and round in circles we go. The idea the Japan team rested players against Poland - let alone fielded a second string side, as you mentioned earlier - is absolutely absurd, and nothing more than post-match arrogance. They could quite easily have been eliminated. But if you are so gullible as to buy into the rock star statements the Japanese team keeps coming out with (including such gems as how they used their intellect against the physical Senegalese - a game they didn't win, btw), I'll leave you to your haplessness.

& stop pretending I disagreed with you about the late sub and lack of motivation in the closing stages of that game. Because I didn't. They were basically resigned to defeat by that stage and a second place finish behind Colombia.

Anyway, I'll have fun reminding you of this discussion after they get knocked out by Belgium, because that's the predicament they've found themselves in by selecting a defense-oriented team and not defeating Poland - as their group rivals did (Colombia quite easily).

[morepork]

Shut up Rowan. You have about 9 thousand threads that you play at being a journalist on and you cannot act a thundercunt on all of them if someone else chooses to post. You are spectacularly tedious so drop it or jog on.

[rowan]

At least he's a sportsman . . .

[cashead]

Looks like Daffy Duck just turned up with the little black cloud over his head! This guy really amuses me

Round and round in circles we go. The idea the Japan team rested players against Poland - let alone fielded a second string side, as you mentioned earlier - is absolutely absurd, and nothing more than post-match arrogance. They could quite easily have been eliminated. But if you are so gullible as to buy into the rock star statements the Japanese team keeps coming out with (including such gems as how they used their intellect against the physical Senegalese - a game they didn't win, btw), I'll leave you to your haplessness.

& stop pretending I disagreed with you about the late sub and lack of motivation in the closing stages of that game. Because I didn't. They were basically resigned to defeat by that stage and a second place finish behind Colombia.

Anyway, I'll have fun reminding you of this discussion after they get knocked out by Belgium, because that's the predicament they've found themselves in by selecting a defense-oriented team and not defeating Poland - as their group rivals did (Colombia quite easily).

Christ, you are tedious, stupid, arrogant cunt. What's amazing is that you're pretty much the only person in the world that refuses to accept that Nishino gambled on the Senegal-Colombia result holding with 10 minutes to go, with your reasoning being little more than "nuh-uh, because I said so." This post pretty much encapsulates every reason why no one likes you.

And if you don't mind, go ahead and name the first-choice players that Nishino played against Poland. And it's hilarious that you keep going on about fielding a defence-oriented team, when Hasebe, their captain - who was kept on the bench until the 82nd minute - is a defensive midfielder. So yeah, go ahead and explain resting their captain, and key defensive midfielder?

[rowan]

Hasebe is in his mid-thirties, Hapless one. He was on the bench and got called on when it was deemed tactically prudent. That means he was not rested at all. Doh! & the late subbing is not what we are debating. Once again, all I am disputing is the idea Japan gambled on the other result and rested players or fielded a second string team. If you want to buy into that, go ahead. But, in reality, they were facing elimination and neither gambled on the other result nor fielded anything less than the best team they could, which evidently was one designed not to lose rather than chase the win. That conservative approach almost blew up in their faces but they had a lucky escape. This became apparent during the latter stages of their clash with Poland, where they had fallen behind a goal (and not deliberately as part of some ingenious strategy, as you seem to imagine). Thus, having miscalculated but survived, they don the smooth, calm, sophisticated exterior and try to convince the world they had it all under control and that a loss which consigned them to 2nd place and a very tough second round clash with Belgium was all part of their master plan.

[Galfon]

Eng. have usually progressed from the Group stage in the finals reached since '66; with the exits of Betes noires Ger, Arg and Por this only leaves Brazil left who have previously kicked them out in the KO stages ( 02 sk/jap).
Losing shoot-outs were in 90, 98 and 06.
[ Finals not applicable: 74,78 (ftq),82 (mini group stage),
94 (ftq).
14 was the only time progression out of group was not achieved. ]
Here's hoping Eng. can settle the score with Brazil this time...

[rowan]

South America really is amazingly successful at World Cups, despite not actually winning for a while. For a start, half the nations on the continent qualify, the 5th invariably winning its play-off with a CONCACAF or Oceania team. At this tournament, 80% of their teams progressed from the group stages, compared to Europe 71%, CONCACAF 33%, Asia 25% and Africa 0%. At the last World Cup, 5/6 South American teams progressed from the group stages, for an 83% average, while in 2010 all 5 went through for a 100% average!

[cashead]

Hasebe is in his mid-thirties, Hapless one. He was on the bench and got called on when it was deemed tactically prudent. That means he was not rested at all. Doh! & the late subbing is not what we are debating. Once again, all I am disputing is the idea Japan gambled on the other result and rested players or fielded a second string team. If you want to buy into that, go ahead. But, in reality, they were facing elimination and neither gambled on the other result nor fielded anything less than the best team they could, which evidently was one designed not to lose rather than chase the win. That conservative approach almost blew up in their faces but they had a lucky escape. This became apparent during the latter stages of their clash with Poland, where they had fallen behind a goal (and not deliberately as part of some ingenious strategy, as you seem to imagine). Thus, having miscalculated but survived, they don the smooth, calm, sophisticated exterior and try to convince the world they had it all under control and that a loss which consigned them to 2nd place and a very tough second round clash with Belgium was all part of their master plan.

1. "Hasebe is in his mid-thirties" - and still apparently has enough gas in the tank to appear in 24 of 34 2017/18 Bundesliga fixtures, playing the full 90 in all but 2 of those appearances. His 10 missed games were due to - a niggly knee injury which put him out of 3 non-consecutive fixtures, the flu that put him out of 3 fixtures, a 21-day red card suspension at the end of the season, and just one game where he was an unused sub on the bench against Bayer Leverkusen. In fact, other than the 3-week suspension, he didn't miss a single fixture for Eintracht Frankfurt in the league. The aforementioned knee-injury also put him out of a DFB-Pokal fixture, meaning he played 5 of the 6 fixtures Eintracht Frankfurt played on their way to winning the tournament. So if you're suggesting his age means he needs a rest here and there, this clearly isn't the case. He can demonstrably handle 3 consecutive world cup pool games, even if he's in his mid-30s based on his appearance record for his Bundesliga club. Try again.

2. If it's a defence-oriented team, then explain the fielding of Okazaki, a top-quality provider for strikers, a striker with a club record of a goal almost every 2 games for FC Tokyo and every 3 games for Mainz 05, and a clear attacking winger in Usami? You may have a point with fielding Sakai, a defender on the right wing, but even then, there was no change from the otherwise established 4-2-3-1 formation the team used throughout Nishino's tenure so far. Further, if it's not a second-string team, then why not bring on Kagawa or Honda? In fact, why weren't they starting? Kagawa is a key player, and Honda is a superstar in Japanese football for a reason.

3. It's quite curious that you're refusing to even consider the possibility that they'd adapt and count on the result of the other game holding for the remaining 10 minutes or so of the fixture - which you're strawmanning as "gambled on the result from the outset," which no one has stated other than you. What he has stated is that he chose to more-or-less bite the bullet on the 80th, and that it wasn't an unpleasant, undesirable option. It's all in black-and-white here, bro: https://worldcup2018.yomiuri.co.jp/news/3325/

But then again, your issues with Asians teams are a matter of record on here.

[rowan]

1. "Hasebe is in his mid-thirties" - and still apparently has enough gas in the tank to appear in 24 of 34 2017/18 Bundesliga fixtures, playing the full 90 in all but 2 of those appearances. His 10 missed games were due to - a niggly knee injury which put him out of 3 non-consecutive fixtures, the flu that put him out of 3 fixtures, a 21-day red card suspension at the end of the season, and just one game where he was an unused sub on the bench against Bayer Leverkusen.

Wow, sounds like a model excellent health and youthful vigor Do you always shoot yourself in the foot in arguments?

3. It's quite curious that you're refusing to even consider the possibility that they'd adapt and count on the result of the other game holding for the remaining 10 minutes or so of the fixture - which you're strawmanning as "gambled on the result from the outset," which no one has stated other than you.

I believe I made the first observation myself before you came along and started fighting with your phantoms about it. I'm actually the one pointing out the absurdity of gambling on a result (from the outset) in such perilous circumstances. Japan simply couldn't break down the Polish defense & pretty much gave up on doing so late in the game, so the situation was more about hoping than gambling. Again, you seem to be fighting with your own phantoms on this one. & you certainly used the word gambling earlier on.

You also claimed they had rested players and selected a second string side for the match. &, for the umpteenth time, that is all I am disagreeing with. If the Japanese are claiming that after they dodged a bullet and went through in second place despite a loss that surprised most of us, they are either bluffing or just very, very silly. You wouldn't catch the likes of Uruguay doing anything so arrogant or stupid, and that's one reason why they'll be in the quarters and Japan almost certainly won't. Japan are not in the same class and should stop pretending to be with such implausible rock star comments. Disagree if you will, but that's all I'm saying.

[Galfon]

It would be good to hear Miss A Elk's theory on Japan's plan to finish on more points or superior goal difference to Senegal.Pretty straightfoward I suspect, but in the end just a theory.

[rowan]

I think they just got lucky with the early red card conceded by Colombia. That was the only game they won. Senegal had the better of them, and so did Poland obviously - and a little surprisingly. I hope they prove me wrong but I think they are the luckiest team to get through. & I mentioned an incident in France's final pool game where a Danish player did exactly what the red carded Colombian did and only received a yellow - with the freekick not even being taken because halftime was up. I haven't been impressed by the standard of the refereeing in most of the games I've seen, the video replay has been counterproductive (notwithstanding that it helped knock out Germany ), and there just hasn't been any consistency all round. Let's just say the fact Nigeria and Senegal both had penalties overruled by video in situations where they required just one more goal to go through seems a little more than coincidental to me, while Colombia have invariably been harshly dealt with.

[Galfon]

Big call by Hierro not playing Iniesta.
Poor defending by Rus yielding, then defending free kick.
..own goal.
Rus 0 - 1 Esp after 12 min.

[rowan]

Big call by Hierro not playing Iniesta.
Poor defending by Rus yielding, then defending free kick.
..own goal.
Rus 0 - 1 Esp after 12 min.

It's a cunning ploy not to field their best team and gamble on results elsewhere

Yes, slightly unfortunate own goal under pressure at a corner. Russia looking a tad outclassed. The writing was on the wall with the hammering they received from Uruguay. Heart says Russia cos it's their tournament and they've never won it. But head says Spain, obviously.

[Galfon]

It's a cunning ploy not to field their best team and gamble on results elsewhere

more stunt than ploy if done in a knock-out match, obviously.
Sure he'll be on to strangle them later, unless carrying a knock.

[Galfon]

Pique wavy-tree impression results in pen.
1 - 1 after 41 min.
Game on !....home support driving them on.