The Pain in Spain (poll)

[rowan]

Gets a back page spread in Spain's highest circulation daily as well. https://elpais.com/deportes/2018/05/15/ ... 90667.html

But, really, what a come-down for both Los Leones and The Oaks. Not so long ago Spain was already celebrating their return to the World Cup after a 20 year absence, with only Belgium standing in their way. Instead they wound up with several players banned and elimination not only from the World Cup but even the playoff! & apparently they will now have to play Portugal just to avoid relegation. That must be shattering for them. It should also serve as a massive wake-up call, however. They need to get their act together if they're going to make the step up to the big time, which they are clearly capable of. Aside from focusing more on local talent and relying less on foreign-born players, this includes developing a greater appreciation of the ethos and conduct traditionally associated with the game. Romania, too, will have learnt some valuable lessons.

[rowan]

Still not entirely clear who's going into the promotion-relegation match with Portugal. I've seen it reported as Spain and I've also seen it reported as Romania, but logically it would have to be Belgium again, surely . . .


1. Russia 10+11=21
2. Germany 8+0=8
3. Romania 15-10+14-20=-1
4. Spain 13-20+13-20=-14
5. Belgium 2-15+9-15=-19

For 2017 (if one would correct the standings):
1. Georgia 19
2. Russia 10
3. Germany 8
4. Romania 19-15=4
5. Spain 13-25=-12
6. Belgium 2-20=-18 (from Wikipedia)

For 2018:
1. Georgia 24
2. Russia 11
3. Germany 0
4. Belgium 9-15=-6 (from Wikipedia)
5. Spain 13-20=-7
6. Romania 14-25=-11

[rowan]

So how hard would it be in the age of the internet and global communication to create an data base of players and countries they have represented? Obviously the people managing that should be World Rugby and its regional associations, with the national associations providing the data, of course. Initially it might require a major undertaking, but they've got plenty of fulltime staff these days, haven't they? & once they got it off the ground, it would simply be a case of maintaining it, which the national unions themselves ought to be able to do with relative ease.

[Digby]

It's not a lot of work, not even to set it up, but you need to overcome the inertia of it's always been done this way, that WR would take on some additional costs, and that right now WR can sanction those responsible in case of a screw up, WR would find it harder to place effective sanction on itself.

[rowan]

Surely there will be some kind of repurcussions after all this. I heard somebody at the Romanian rugby federation has already been given the shove. How about the Spanish - and Belgians, for that matter? & then there is the European federation, which completely mishandled the refereeing situation for the final round of qualifying games. Will any heads roll there? & Will World Rugby take ownership and perhaps take over the process once again? At least the referee himself appears to have been vindicated, with the independent report finding no reason to stage a re-match between Spain and Belgium.

[Digby]

There's a decent chance rather than the ref being vindicated that his reffing career is over

[rowan]

There's a decent chance rather than the ref being vindicated that his reffing career is over

Really? Who made that call? I mean, I wouldn't be surprised if he made it himself, the way he's been treated. But if he's been demoted or sacked, I don't think that's justified.

[rowan]

So what they need to do, to be fair, is integrate Russia into the Autumn tours and provide them with some proper match practice against 1st & 2nd tier teams before next year. I think they have a game upcoming with the US, but that's about all. Romania was down to tour the islands as well. Wonder if that'll still go ahead, given it was designed for World Cup preparation. They even rumored Spain would take their place when it was thought they were about to win the qualifying group.

[rowan]

Samoans still not happy:

How can this rescheduling help Samoa when they have just changed the opponents and the times when the games will be played? How can they say it’s the least possible disruption? Who writes these statements and what drug are they on?

Now the Manu Samoa Coach, Fuimaono Titimaea Tafua, obviously doesn’t share the same enthusiasm. He has every reason to. About half of the first choice Manu Samoa squad will not be available for what could possibly be Samoa’s most important test matches this year.

“There are some players for sure they are not available for these games,” Fuimaono said, adding that Samoa had waited a long time for the schedule to be clarified.

Fuimaono said the reality is that some players have already made other plans while others have specific agreements with their clubs.

“Some of the players it’s in their contract that they won’t be available for their national side,” he said. “Some of them already have plans for their weddings...there are players they’ve already set their plans because right from the start from last year our dates was June so all the players had their plans ahead but they changed it.”

Fuimaono is correct. This is yet another classic from World Rugby thinking that everybody will just swallow it without thinking. Well they are wrong.

sobserver.ws/en/19_05_2018/editorial/33235/Not-all-idiots-are-fools-Why-punish-Samoa-for-sins-of-others.htm

[rowan]

So the appeals have been lodged by both nations, though I don't so what grounds they have, and I hardly imagine World Rugby is going to kick Russia out of the tournament again!! At the end of the day, Spain and Romania both out is poetic justice. Quite aside from the eligibility sagas, they combined to bring the game into disrepute with their antics both on and off the field. & it also seems quite appropriate that Russia is the beneficiary, having been disqualified themselves once before, allowing Spain to qualify. Not to mention the fact they had a clear try disallowed against Spain this season, depriving them of a draw...

[Digby]

Hopefully we get the final update to this on Wednesday

[Digby]

Hopefully we get the final update to this on Wednesday

There is news/a decision which absent of rugby admin levels of poor administration will be communicated today

[rowan]

Both have been dismissed, apparently.

World Rugby report just came up: https://www.worldrugby.org/news/340527

Spanish report: http://ferugby.es/noticias2.php?titulo= ... ra%20todos

Basically says World Rugby has confirmed its earlier decision.

Meanwhile, the FER have Twittered something similar which I can neither translate nor copy & paste.

[rowan]

Romania’s appeal was dismissed on each ground: In regard to the circumstances of the breaches, the Independent Appeal Committee found there was no reason to move away from the long-established and consistent principle (including in 2003 and 2019 RWC qualifiers) of imposing a points deduction. The total imposed, given the facts, was not manifestly excessive.

Spain’s appeal was dismissed on each ground: The Independent Appeal Committee upheld the Independent Disputes Committee’s finding that the two players were previously captured by France and therefore and ineligible for Spain. The Committee therefore determined that the sanction imposed was consistent with established practice. Following consideration, the replaying of the Belgium versus Spain versus match would have proved academic in light of the points deduction.

https://www.worldrugby.org/news/340527

[rowan]

Right decision. & neither union can feel too aggrieved, given the other has also been banned (not to mention Tahiti). So now we can put this to rest and focus on the remaining qualifiers, playoffs and repechage tournament. Canada will certainly be relieved about the whole thing, as their European opponent in the repechage tourny is now almost certainly going to be Germany or Portugal, rather than the Oaks or Leones. Russia, also, can begin preparing in earnest, & with a sense of poetic justice too, after their disqualification from the 99 qualifiers allowed Spain to qualify.

[rowan]

Germany vs. Portugal will apparently be played in Germany on the 16th starting 3pm German time. It's a one-off, winner plays division 1 next year and gets to face Samoa home & away on the 30th & 14th for a spot in November's World Cup qualifying repechages, loser plays division 2 next year.

[rowan]

Technically Georgia could now appeal Romania's 2017 ENC title, in which Sione Faka’osilea also featured. But somehow I don't think that would particularly interest them, even though the Oaks did interrupt their long-standing domination of the championship. It would also have to go through Rugby Europe rather than World Rugby, I suppose, which could be more trouble than it's worth.

[rowan]

Some of the Spanish players involved in confronting the ref after the Belgium match have had their bans lightened considerably by Rugby Europe, which should free them up for next year's European competition. http://www.ferugby.es/noticias2.php?tit ... ancionados

Romania have still to play their promo-relly match with Portugal, obviously minus one key player of Tongan origins, and that may not be quite as straightforward as it looks, given the Germans' lucky escape against the Lobos in Heidelberg...