RugbyRebels

Digby wrote:In truth the 10s like the 9s were hit and miss. And just because the France and Ireland games annoyed me because there was so little attempt to play rugby doesn’t mean those weren't strong performances from Faz in big wins

Even so, his abysmal performance on Saturday should preclude him from any best XV of the tournament.

Spiffy wrote:

Digby wrote:In truth the 10s like the 9s were hit and miss. And just because the France and Ireland games annoyed me because there was so little attempt to play rugby doesn’t mean those weren't strong performances from Faz in big wins

Even so, his abysmal performance on Saturday should preclude him from any best XV of the tournament.

Totally agree

In fact, he came under pressure twice in the whole tournament: the second half against Wales and Scotland, and he was utterly awful on both occasions

"And the man is a superb rugby player & is developing into a bloody good captain. We all need time, experience and painful experiences to grow & develop - I have no doubt he will become outstanding as a leader" - Will Carling

This is part of a trend. A lot of former & current players, coaches and pundits really rate Farrell.

They obviously see something in him......

TheNomad wrote:

Spiffy wrote:

Digby wrote:In truth the 10s like the 9s were hit and miss. And just because the France and Ireland games annoyed me because there was so little attempt to play rugby doesn’t mean those weren't strong performances from Faz in big wins

Even so, his abysmal performance on Saturday should preclude him from any best XV of the tournament.

Totally agree

In fact, he came under pressure twice in the whole tournament: the second half against Wales and Scotland, and he was utterly awful on both occasions

He wasn’t utterly awful in the second half against Wales...he was worse that that, and it was for the entire 80 minutes.

I have stuck up for him in the past on this forum, but certainly on re-watching the Wales game i’m convinced we win that with a competent performance at 10. He was actively undermining a lot of the team effort.

Throw in the Scotland game where, in between a lot of his other bad stuff, he gifted the Scots 12 (14? points)...who knows. It’s a massive worry.

fivepointer wrote:"And the man is a superb rugby player & is developing into a bloody good captain. We all need time, experience and painful experiences to grow & develop - I have no doubt he will become outstanding as a leader" - Will Carling

This is part of a trend. A lot of former & current players, coaches and pundits really rate Farrell.

They obviously see something in him......

And they've seen something in him for 6 years, but they're still telling us that in time he'll get really good.

Timbo wrote:

TheNomad wrote:

Spiffy wrote:
Even so, his abysmal performance on Saturday should preclude him from any best XV of the tournament.

Totally agree

In fact, he came under pressure twice in the whole tournament: the second half against Wales and Scotland, and he was utterly awful on both occasions

He wasn’t utterly awful in the second half against Wales...he was worse that that, and it was for the entire 80 minutes.

I have stuck up for him in the past on this forum, but certainly on re-watching the Wales game i’m convinced we win that with a competent performance at 10. He was actively undermining a lot of the team effort.

Throw in the Scotland game where, in between a lot of his other bad stuff, he gifted the Scots 12 (14? points)...who knows. It’s a massive worry.

Welcome to the club.

fivepointer wrote:"And the man is a superb rugby player & is developing into a bloody good captain. We all need time, experience and painful experiences to grow & develop - I have no doubt he will become outstanding as a leader" - Will Carling

This is part of a trend. A lot of former & current players, coaches and pundits really rate Farrell.

They obviously see something in him......

Yep...it's pretty much universal. Former players, pundits, experts and the like all rate him.

They don't even talk about the mistakes, they give him excuses like the pressure of being captain at the same time as ignoring the countless other examples of errors, missed tackles etc.

Saw a team of the tournament which had Russell at 10...fair enough, but even then it was noted about the mistakes he makes. Farrell was a close second!

Jesus, if he reads this he will go over the edge and start randomly shoulder charging people in the street.

He had one very good game against Ireland. Two awful games against Wales and Scotland, one fairly good match against France and an average game against Italy.

Looking back at all of our tries, Farrell’s involvement is surprisingly low in the phases in the build up.

Ireland:

Try - May. Daly’s assist, but Farrell makes the try with a very good long miss pass to Daly.
Try - Daly. Farrell makes a fairly regulation pass to Daly who chases his own kick (with assistance from Nowell) to score.
Try - Slade. Great move from Youngs to Slade, to May. Slade chases through to score. No involvement from Farrell.
Try - Slade. Intercept. No involvement from Farrell.

France:

Try - May. Daly kicks through for May to score. No involvement from Farrell.
Try - May. Ashton kicks through for May to score. No involvement from Farrell.
Try - May. Very good miss pass from Farrell after calling for a change in direction. May’s footwork finishes it off.
Try - Slade. Great pass from Sinckler to Slade who finishes with some nice footwork.
Try - Penalty Try made by Slade’s inter elf and kick through. No involvement from Farrell.
Try - Farrell. Ultimately touches down his own kick through after May is beaten to the ball.

Wales:

Try - Curry. Makes his own try with an opportunist dart from the ruck. No involvement from Farrell.

Italy:

Try - George. Driving maul. No involvement from Farrell apart from the kick to the corner.
Try - May. Regulation pass from Farrell to Daly who then makes the break to set up May in the corner.
Try - Tuilagi. Regulation pass from Farrell to Tuilagi who does the rest.
Try - Shields. Decent delayed pass from Farrell to Tuilagi who breaks to set up Shields.
Try - Tuilagi. Farrell shifts the play with a long pass. George makes the try with a miss pass.
Try - Kruis. Charge down. Makes his own try. No involvement from Farrell.
Try - Shields. Another charge down from Kruis. Easy score for Shields. No involvement from Farrell.

Scotland:

Try - Nowell. Basic pass from Farrell right at the beginning of the move. Good finish from Nowell after good breaks from Daly and Slade who make the try.
Try - Curry from a lineout drive. No involvement from Farrell.
Try - Launchbury. Nice dummy to finish after a lovely offload from Genge to Sinckler and then a nice, quick delivery from Youngs to Launchbury. No involvement from Farrell.
Try - May. Another nice pass from Youngs after quick tap penalty. Slade with a delicious offload to May. No involvement from Farrell.
Try - Ford. Curry passes from the base to Genge at first-receiver who then passes on to Ford to finish. No involvement from Farrell.

Obviously tries aren’t representative of the whole game but if Farrell is the architect of our attack, it’s not resulting in very many direct involvements in our try scoring.

Scrumhead wrote:He had one very good game against Ireland. Two awful games against Wales and Scotland, one fairly good match against France and an average game against Italy.

Looking back at all of our tries, Farrell’s involvement is surprisingly low in the phases in the build up.

Ireland:

Try - May. Daly’s assist, but Farrell makes the try with a very good long miss pass to Daly.
Try - Daly. Farrell makes a fairly regulation pass to Daly who chases his own kick (with assistance from Nowell) to score.
Try - Slade. Great move from Youngs to Slade, to May. Slade chases through to score. No involvement from Farrell.
Try - Slade. Intercept. No involvement from Farrell.

France:

Try - May. Daly kicks through for May to score. No involvement from Farrell.
Try - May. Ashton kicks through for May to score. No involvement from Farrell.
Try - May. Very good miss pass from Farrell after calling for a change in direction. May’s footwork finishes it off.
Try - Slade. Great pass from Sinckler to Slade who finishes with some nice footwork.
Try - Penalty Try made by Slade’s inter elf and kick through. No involvement from Farrell.
Try - Farrell. Ultimately touches down his own kick through after May is beaten to the ball.

Wales:

Try - Curry. Makes his own try with an opportunist dart from the ruck. No involvement from Farrell.

Italy:

Try - George. Driving maul. No involvement from Farrell apart from the kick to the corner.
Try - May. Regulation pass from Farrell to Daly who then makes the break to set up May in the corner.
Try - Tuilagi. Regulation pass from Farrell to Tuilagi who does the rest.
Try - Shields. Decent delayed pass from Farrell to Tuilagi who breaks to set up Shields.
Try - Tuilagi. Farrell shifts the play with a long pass. George makes the try with a miss pass.
Try - Kruis. Charge down. Makes his own try. No involvement from Farrell.
Try - Shields. Another charge down from Kruis. Easy score for Shields. No involvement from Farrell.

Scotland:

Try - Nowell. Basic pass from Farrell right at the beginning of the move. Good finish from Nowell after good breaks from Daly and Slade who make the try.
Try - Curry from a lineout drive. No involvement from Farrell.
Try - Launchbury. Nice dummy to finish after a lovely offload from Genge to Sinckler and then a nice, quick delivery from Youngs to Launchbury. No involvement from Farrell.
Try - May. Another nice pass from Youngs after quick tap penalty. Slade with a delicious offload to May. No involvement from Farrell.
Try - Ford. Curry passes from the base to Genge at first-receiver who then passes on to Ford to finish. No involvement from Farrell.

Obviously tries aren’t representative of the whole game but if Farrell is the architect of our attack, it’s not resulting in very many direct involvements in our try scoring.

Like Sarries, more playmaking is done by the 9 than Faz...ie a lot of kicking

Crikey, I’m glad we don’t have this kind of introspection on our 10s on the Wales board!!

Genuinely interested in where Russel's big lows came in this tournament. First half on the weekend wasnt great but didnt see him as a huge culprit. Otherwise thought he was remarkably consistent for him especially considering the changes around him. Some of the comments about him seem based more on reputation

normanski wrote:Crikey, I’m glad we don’t have this kind of introspection on our 10s on the Wales board!!

It’s more of an antidote to the media inflating his ability and influence.

Cameo wrote:Genuinely interested in where Russel's big lows came in this tournament. First half on the weekend wasnt great but didnt see him as a huge culprit. Otherwise thought he was remarkably consistent for him especially considering the changes around him. Some of the comments about him seem based more on reputation

I agree, but amazingly I saw the studio experts go to great lengths to mention mistakes he made against Italy at half time.

Still no mention of Farrell's many failings...just excuses for them.

I wouldn't be surprised to read at some point that Owen has 'struggled' as he is trying too hard whilst carrying the team.

Oh yeah, and he has too much responsibility

What we're seeing now is really no different than over the last few years or so...the huddles are new though. Great leadership material.

Scrumhead wrote:He had one very good game against Ireland. Two awful games against Wales and Scotland, one fairly good match against France and an average game against Italy.

Looking back at all of our tries, Farrell’s involvement is surprisingly low in the phases in the build up.

Ireland:

Try - May. Daly’s assist, but Farrell makes the try with a very good long miss pass to Daly.
Try - Daly. Farrell makes a fairly regulation pass to Daly who chases his own kick (with assistance from Nowell) to score.
Try - Slade. Great move from Youngs to Slade, to May. Slade chases through to score. No involvement from Farrell.
Try - Slade. Intercept. No involvement from Farrell.

France:

Try - May. Daly kicks through for May to score. No involvement from Farrell.
Try - May. Ashton kicks through for May to score. No involvement from Farrell.
Try - May. Very good miss pass from Farrell after calling for a change in direction. May’s footwork finishes it off.
Try - Slade. Great pass from Sinckler to Slade who finishes with some nice footwork.
Try - Penalty Try made by Slade’s inter elf and kick through. No involvement from Farrell.
Try - Farrell. Ultimately touches down his own kick through after May is beaten to the ball.

Wales:

Try - Curry. Makes his own try with an opportunist dart from the ruck. No involvement from Farrell.

Italy:

Try - George. Driving maul. No involvement from Farrell apart from the kick to the corner.
Try - May. Regulation pass from Farrell to Daly who then makes the break to set up May in the corner.
Try - Tuilagi. Regulation pass from Farrell to Tuilagi who does the rest.
Try - Shields. Decent delayed pass from Farrell to Tuilagi who breaks to set up Shields.
Try - Tuilagi. Farrell shifts the play with a long pass. George makes the try with a miss pass.
Try - Kruis. Charge down. Makes his own try. No involvement from Farrell.
Try - Shields. Another charge down from Kruis. Easy score for Shields. No involvement from Farrell.

Scotland:

Try - Nowell. Basic pass from Farrell right at the beginning of the move. Good finish from Nowell after good breaks from Daly and Slade who make the try.
Try - Curry from a lineout drive. No involvement from Farrell.
Try - Launchbury. Nice dummy to finish after a lovely offload from Genge to Sinckler and then a nice, quick delivery from Youngs to Launchbury. No involvement from Farrell.
Try - May. Another nice pass from Youngs after quick tap penalty. Slade with a delicious offload to May. No involvement from Farrell.
Try - Ford. Curry passes from the base to Genge at first-receiver who then passes on to Ford to finish. No involvement from Farrell.

Obviously tries aren’t representative of the whole game but if Farrell is the architect of our attack, it’s not resulting in very many direct involvements in our try scoring.

He set up a couple of beauties for Scotland, too. Credit where it's due.

normanski wrote:Crikey, I’m glad we don’t have this kind of introspection on our 10s on the Wales board!!

People love to hate farrell and go completely overboard. It is weird yes, before you ask.

Cameo wrote:Genuinely interested in where Russel's big lows came in this tournament. First half on the weekend wasnt great but didnt see him as a huge culprit. Otherwise thought he was remarkably consistent for him especially considering the changes around him. Some of the comments about him seem based more on reputation

Yeah it’s interesting how/why the media have Farrell down as incredibly consistent when in reality he’s no less of a flake than Russell. Difference being Russell at the top of his game will reliably take a defence apart.

twitchy wrote:

normanski wrote:Crikey, I’m glad we don’t have this kind of introspection on our 10s on the Wales board!!

People love to hate farrell and go completely overboard. It is weird yes, before you ask.

I call WUM

Cameo wrote:Genuinely interested in where Russel's big lows came in this tournament. First half on the weekend wasnt great but didnt see him as a huge culprit. Otherwise thought he was remarkably consistent for him especially considering the changes around him. Some of the comments about him seem based more on reputation

Funnily enough I commented that v Wales he looked poor especially in their 22, and speculated that he had taken another head knock and looked a bit woozy.

Spiffy wrote:

Digby wrote:In truth the 10s like the 9s were hit and miss. And just because the France and Ireland games annoyed me because there was so little attempt to play rugby doesn’t mean those weren't strong performances from Faz in big wins

Even so, his abysmal performance on Saturday should preclude him from any best XV of the tournament.

It's not so much he isn't in my XV for the tournament, it's more I've picked Anscombe and I'm thus having to overlook he struggled badly at times. There really isn't anyone who didn't shit the bed at times

Banquo wrote:

Cameo wrote:Genuinely interested in where Russel's big lows came in this tournament. First half on the weekend wasnt great but didnt see him as a huge culprit. Otherwise thought he was remarkably consistent for him especially considering the changes around him. Some of the comments about him seem based more on reputation

Funnily enough I commented that v Wales he looked poor especially in their 22, and speculated that he had taken another head knock and looked a bit woozy.

Second half I agree it got a bit scrappy in their 22 but I put that as much down to a very makeshift back three. It was also very good control and kicking from hand that kept as down there most of the half.

Cameo wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Cameo wrote:Genuinely interested in where Russel's big lows came in this tournament. First half on the weekend wasnt great but didnt see him as a huge culprit. Otherwise thought he was remarkably consistent for him especially considering the changes around him. Some of the comments about him seem based more on reputation

Funnily enough I commented that v Wales he looked poor especially in their 22, and speculated that he had taken another head knock and looked a bit woozy.

Second half I agree it got a bit scrappy in their 22 but I put that as much down to a very makeshift back three. It was also very good control and kicking from hand that kept as down there most of the half.

We will have to disagree then- I saw that as a big low for him, which was the question.

With an objective viewpoint, Farrell has proved that he is not a good captain. The debate about his prowess as a player can continue. Next question for Jones should be, 'Is Farrell a better player when he is NOT captain?'

Banquo wrote:

Cameo wrote:

Banquo wrote: Funnily enough I commented that v Wales he looked poor especially in their 22, and speculated that he had taken another head knock and looked a bit woozy.

Second half I agree it got a bit scrappy in their 22 but I put that as much down to a very makeshift back three. It was also very good control and kicking from hand that kept as down there most of the half.

We will have to disagree then- I saw that as a big low for him, which was the question.

He had a big low when Scotland went 7 points ahead at the weekend. first he kicked the ball away to England who needed the ball to score any points and having done that he runs totally out of the defensive line allowing Ford to pick a hole and put momentum into England's attack that just wasn't there before

Russell isn't going to get much lower than going above and beyond to bin a first win at HQ in decades, the incompetent buffoon

Oakboy wrote:With an objective viewpoint, Farrell has proved that he is not a good captain. The debate about his prowess as a player can continue. Next question for Jones should be, 'Is Farrell a better player when he is NOT captain?'

But, but, but the huddling skills and the shouting and backslapping?????