Finally a proper look at Sarries and the salary cap

[Mellsblue]

Interesting that Stephen Jones, sympathetic to Sarries before, has consistently been handed the new exclusives since this came out. I can't imagine why. in unrelated news, a new PR firm has been employed by a North London rugby club...

Interesting that Sarries are sending a second choice team (albeit one that has a full international front row, 8 internationals in the starting XV, 12 in the match day squad, and two World Cup winners) to Racing. Does not contravene competition rules on playing your best available team?

If it’s any consolation, Jones gets a shoeing in the Letters to the Editor section of today’s edition.

[Peej]

Hmm, Mark McCall has just suggested on TV that they might not be accepting the punishment after all. Also says the England players "aren't ready to return to rugby yet", which I think is bollocks, frankly.

[Which Tyler]

Yep PRL. Doesn’t preclude them from sticking the money into grassroots. Whether that’s funnelled through the clubs or not is moot, for me. Just need a positive headline out of it.

Yup - also easily handed from PRL to PRPA if they don't want to give the RFU a hand - £5M would fund quite a lot of research into concussion, for example.

[Banquo]

Hmm, Mark McCall has just suggested on TV that they might not be accepting the punishment after all. Also says the England players "aren't ready to return to rugby yet", which I think is bollocks, frankly.

they can't feasibly compete in Europe though, if accepting the 35 point deduction, Relegation would be a catastrophe for them.

[Oakboy]

Hmm, Mark McCall has just suggested on TV that they might not be accepting the punishment after all. Also says the England players "aren't ready to return to rugby yet", which I think is bollocks, frankly.

they can't feasibly compete in Europe though, if accepting the 35 point deduction, Relegation would be a catastrophe for them.

Yes, assuming the points deduction stands, how can McCall NOT prioritise GP results?

[Timbo]

Hmm, Mark McCall has just suggested on TV that they might not be accepting the punishment after all. Also says the England players "aren't ready to return to rugby yet", which I think is bollocks, frankly.

they can't feasibly compete in Europe though, if accepting the 35 point deduction, Relegation would be a catastrophe for them.

I read that Billy jetted off on more holidays yesterday, so they’re obviously gearing their players up for a good run at the upcoming league fixtures.

[Banquo]

Hmm, Mark McCall has just suggested on TV that they might not be accepting the punishment after all. Also says the England players "aren't ready to return to rugby yet", which I think is bollocks, frankly.

they can't feasibly compete in Europe though, if accepting the 35 point deduction, Relegation would be a catastrophe for them.

I read that Billy jetted off on more holidays yesterday, so they’re obviously gearing their players up for a good run at the upcoming league fixtures.

Sounds sensible

[Galfon]

Does not contravene competition rules on playing your best available team?

It certainly devalues the competition a bit.
Wonder if the Sarries players got wind of the club sanctions whilst (or before) the rwc was in progress.

[fivepointer]

Hmm, Mark McCall has just suggested on TV that they might not be accepting the punishment after all. Also says the England players "aren't ready to return to rugby yet", which I think is bollocks, frankly.

They have until midnight today to lodge an appeal.

this explains just how they might appeal - http://rugbyandthelaw.com/2019/11/16/sa ... ge-appeal/

its legal stuff with the conclusion being "The chances of Saracens successfully challenging the Decision of the Panel seem slim, on the basis of the information that is publicly available. Their best chance would likely be to attack the amount of the fine and the points deduction, by arguing that this is disproportionate. Of course, it may be that there have been other errors in the calculation of the fine, which would provide grounds for reviewing that element of the decision as “ultra vires”.

[Peej]

Interesting statement from Nigel Wray: https://www.saracens.com/club-statement ... igel-wray/

TL;DR Sarries won't appeal "for the good of the game and the Premiership"

I'm struck by this line though; "I recognise that the arrangements between myself and players, made in good faith, which comprise the material element of the charges, should have been brought to the attention of the salary cap manager for consultation prior to entering into them."

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Sarries say that they had notified the salary cap manager and he had cleared them when they were protesting their innocence 10 days ago?

[fivepointer]

They're bang to rights and they know it. We havent seen the full judgment but i'm betting it was watertight from a legal perspective, leaving the club with no viable option to seek a review.

[Peej]

They know it, and we know it too. But it also shows that their attempts at a defence, and claims they were being victimised, were flat out lies too

[Tigersman]

6/7 more Games until Tigers go bottom again.

I can relax for christmas it's a true miracle.

[Peej]

Eddie suggesting that he either won't pick the Sarries players for England or they won't make themselves available. How convenient.

[Shiny]

Eddie suggesting that he either won't pick the Sarries players for England or they won't make themselves available. How convenient.

Part of me would like that as it gives everyone a chance to have a good look at other options which we may not have seen at the highest level.

[Which Tyler]

Eddie suggesting that he either won't pick the Sarries players for England or they won't make themselves available. How convenient.

Part of me would like that as it gives everyone a chance to have a good look at other options which we may not have seen at the highest level.

I'd like it, but based on RWC minutes played (and age), not which club played for

[Digby]

I don't see any way the Sarries players currently in the England side want to give anyone else 5 games to take a shirt off them and pass up at minimum £125k into the bargain. Also they be passing up a chance to win a 6N and even a GS, and too I've heard some will even care about starting to present a case to be on the jamboree tour

[Mellsblue]

Today’s Times:

Exeter Chiefs are investigating taking legal action against Saracens to recover revenue they lost as a result of losing two Premiership titles to a team who have since been found in breach of the salary-cap rules.

Tony Rowe, the Exeter chairman, has branded Nigel Wray, his opposite number at Saracens, a “cheater” and is due to meet lawyers today to discuss whether Exeter have a legal case.

Saracens were deducted 35 points and fined £5.36 million for breaking the salary cap in each of the past three seasons. In two of those seasons, Saracens won the Premiership title with victory in the Twickenham final over Exeter.

Exeter won the title in 2017, beating Wasps in the final. If they had won those next two finals against Saracens, they would have become the first team to be champions three years in a row since Wasps (2003 to 2005). “There would have been an impact on our commercial value,” Rowe said.

The value of any possible compensation is hard to quantify. The Premiership winners take a cash prize of £120,000 and the runners-up receive £90,000, but the £30,000 disparity would be just the start of any case that Exeter may make. It is extra value in sponsorships that would be far more significant.


“We have got to look to see if we have got any grounds for recompense from Saracens for cheating,” Rowe said. “We’re not sure whether we would have won. You can’t possibly know. The reality is we were cheated out of the chance to win two cups.

“[Wray] is a cheater. I believe he brought the sport into disrepute and he shouldn’t be allowed to get away with it. It’s absolutely ridiculous: he is still muttering away in the press about how hard done by he is. All he has done is brought the sport into disrepute.”

Rowe said that he regrets that Exeter and the other Premiership clubs agreed four years ago to keep confidential another salary-cap breach by Saracens.

“They were put on trust that they wouldn’t do it again,” he said. “I remember the meeting. All the chairmen agreed to work by the rules and the spirit of the rules.

“The game is built on respect. It goes to show that Nigel’s got no respect for any other club.”

[p/d]

I feel for him, but Rowe needs to be the bigger man here.
No distractions, keep your concentration on the field both domestically and (especially) in Europe. And prove that being the bridesmaid isn’t in the Exeter DNA

[Raggs]

Whilst I'd not have a problem stripping sarries of them, i don't see how you could gift them to anyone else.

[twitchy]

I'm an exeter fan. Titles/cup finals etc are some thing you win in the moment. It seems pointless trying to argue "what if" now. That being said it does sort of feel like sarries "got away with it" because their owner can financially cover the fine.

[Peej]

Think this is a step too far from Rowe. I also think they're jumping the gun by looking to twist the knife/put more of the boot in

[Which Tyler]

Agreed with all of the above TBH.
Yes Sarries took the piss.
I would have no particular problem stripping them of their titles, though it seems a little OTT, spiteful, and too bloody late.
But you can't just award the titles to someone else as the whole season would have panned out differently for all 12 clubs had they not been financially doping.
Rowe would be better advised to take the legal advice BEFORE spouting off about it; and Exeter should really be trying to rise above these things, and get on with winning stuff on the pitch.

[Mellsblue]

Interesting that Stephen Jones, sympathetic to Sarries before, has consistently been handed the new exclusives since this came out. I can't imagine why. in unrelated news, a new PR firm has been employed by a North London rugby club...

Interesting that Sarries are sending a second choice team (albeit one that has a full international front row, 8 internationals in the starting XV, 12 in the match day squad, and two World Cup winners) to Racing. Does not contravene competition rules on playing your best available team?

If it’s any consolation, Jones gets a shoeing in the Letters to the Editor section of today’s edition.

Jones is an absolute embarrassment in the latest edition of the times’ rugby podcast. To save you having to listen to him hector and interrupt for 10/15 mins, he believes it’s a fact that Saracens are only guilty of an administration error and any thought to the contrary is borne out of jealousy.

[Digby]

Interesting that Stephen Jones, sympathetic to Sarries before, has consistently been handed the new exclusives since this came out. I can't imagine why. in unrelated news, a new PR firm has been employed by a North London rugby club...

Interesting that Sarries are sending a second choice team (albeit one that has a full international front row, 8 internationals in the starting XV, 12 in the match day squad, and two World Cup winners) to Racing. Does not contravene competition rules on playing your best available team?

If it’s any consolation, Jones gets a shoeing in the Letters to the Editor section of today’s edition.

Jones is an absolute embarrassment in the latest edition of the times’ rugby podcast. To save you having to listen to him hector and interrupt for 10/15 mins, he believes it’s a fact that Saracens are only guilty of an administration error and any thought to the contrary is borne out of jealousy.

Much more likely he's being paid to believe that than he actually believes that