RugbyRebels

Mellsblue wrote:Yeah. Not sure what Jones could do once the whistle went. You could argue that he hadn’t prepared them well enough as they were clearly nervous as hell but he could only do so much. There are numerous Lions, European champions, league champions and players with north of 50 caps, they should not make the early mistakes they made no matter who their head coach is.
I wonder whether, in hindsight, he might privately admit he should have made different decisions on selection.

Wondering whether they'd have been better for more World Cup veterans and whether it isn't a slightly different beast from the others. It can't be easy, being hothoused for so long, knowing that every loss might/will be your last. Playoffs/Europe you get to go home and they're broken up, the Lions have relatively few do or die games. Two wasted World Cups means pretty much nobody in the playing staff had been in that position before.

I certainly that think in 2023, this experience will stand us in good stead. So too would an older wiser squad. It's a shame a couple more of the old lags didn't make it through; if I could have picked any rugby player in England to be fit for that WC in hindsight, it'd probably be Hartley.

Mike Brown for me, could've been useful in that final instead of Daly.

Beasties wrote:Mike Brown for me, could've been useful in that final instead of Daly.

I look back and wonder why Jones ever wanted Daly at FB. At the time Daly was one of the best wingers in world rugby. Even harder to explain, is why he played Brown on the wing for several games (4/5?). Was there a desire to prove that he was short of pace or what?

Brown, for all his limitations, was usually close to mistake-free defensively and he was the sort of feisty character most would want to share a dressing room with.

Daly seems far less of a character but is one hell of a talented player - on the wing.

I think most of us can see why he wanted to try him there but the fact remains that in only one game (Arg) did he actually look like someone that was worth gambling on. Not that he had much to do defensively in that game. It's just that it would've been prudent to have Brown in the squad instead of McConnachie for just such a game when it was all turning to shit. Sometimes you need someone to stand up and stem the tide.

My main quibble with Eddie was that he hung his hat on Farrell's captaincy and it proved totally inadequate in that final, not for the first time in a pressure situation. Itoje now looks like a no brainer to take over the captaincy, but tbf before the tournament started most were still annoyed by his petulance and histrionics. Hopefully we've seen the last of that now and can install him as captain for years to come.

Wow ... I’m about to agree with Oakboy for the second time in two days!

Brown could have played against Tonga and the USA and then been brought in as a tactical decision for the final to counter SA’s kicking game. He would have been a far more worthwhile pick than McConnochie.

If we had taken Brown, I’m not sure Daly would really have justified being picked on the wing ahead of May or Watson though. As it is, I’d immediately install Watson at 15 and make Daly earn his place ahead of the other wingers.

Scrumhead wrote:Wow ... I’m about to agree with Oakboy for the second time in two days!

Brown could have played against Tonga and the USA and then been brought in as a tactical decision for the final to counter SA’s kicking game. He would have been a far more worthwhile pick than McConnochie.

If we had taken Brown, I’m not sure Daly would really have justified being picked on the wing ahead of May or Watson though. As it is, I’d immediately install Watson at 15 and make Daly earn his place ahead of the other wingers.

Careful. If you start feeling giddy, have a long sit-down with a stiff brandy!

Brown might have been a better tactical choice for the day than Daly, but he'd do nothing for fixing the mental side, hence why I said Hartley. I think he could have brought an element of calm to proceedings. Going forwards, the leadership group needs to mature and be able to ride out those difficult moments better.

But yeah, Brown probably should have been there in the squad. It feels like Jones had his 23, and wanted some guys who'd be grateful just to be there outside the 23 so they didn't rock the boat.

Possibly. I’m not even sure I’d have McConnochie or Francis in the squad moving forward.

The likes of Thorley and Tompkins have the potential to add so much more IMO.

From what I saw this weekend, and in terms of relatively imminent England squad selection;

Jack Willis- immense, and quite possibly good enough to get into the team even ahead of Curry or Underhill. He’s a freakish talent.

Rapava-Ruskin, Simmonds brothers, Jonny Hill and Ben Earl were also really good. More controversially I thought Ribbands, Ackermann and T Harrison were excellent too.

The saints full back could be looked at closely.

Timbo wrote:From what I saw this weekend, and in terms of relatively imminent England squad selection;

Jack Willis- immense, and quite possibly good enough to get into the team even ahead of Curry or Underhill. He’s a freakish talent.

Rapava-Ruskin, Simmonds brothers, Jonny Hill and Ben Earl were also really good. More controversially I thought Ribbands, Ackermann and T Harrison were excellent too.

Previously couldn't see why T Harrison was even considered but he has been excellent end of last and so far this season (and was unlucky with card today)

twitchy wrote:The saints full back could be looked at closely.

Definitely. He looks fast and skilful. Think he’s played a fair bit at 10 in the past and is in the Daly mould as an attacking threat. Just based on today felt he was a bit of a mixed bag.

So Wisemantel is on the top of Aus list of people to go after to build Rennie back room team along with Matt Taylor.

Tigersman wrote:So Wisemantel is on the top of Aus list of people to go after to build Rennie back room team along with Matt Taylor.

Unsurprising. I think he made a real difference to our attack and I'm sad to see him go.

I'm interested to see who Eddie rebuilds his team with after losing everybody but Mitchell. I wouldn't mind seeing Vesty get tapped for attack, but I've got no idea who would be my favourite for forwards coach.

Puja

Puja wrote:
I'm interested to see who Eddie rebuilds his team with after losing everybody but Mitchell. I wouldn't mind seeing Vesty get tapped for attack, but I've got no idea who would be my favourite for forwards coach.

Puja

Borthwick's still there, as he's maybe not yet made up his mind to go to the bottom club (but one, now!) in the Premiership.

francoisfou wrote:

Puja wrote:
I'm interested to see who Eddie rebuilds his team with after losing everybody but Mitchell. I wouldn't mind seeing Vesty get tapped for attack, but I've got no idea who would be my favourite for forwards coach.

Puja

Borthwick's still there, as he's maybe not yet made up his mind to go to the bottom club (but one, now!) in the Premiership.

If he's got any ambitions for future advancements, he should be leaping on the job. It's a squad with 6 England RWC players, alongside the likes of Lavanini and Veainu, coupled with the biggest revenue stream in the Prem and a rep that still lets them attract players like Taufua when finishing 11th. That's not to mention the crop of U18s that are going to be coming through in the next few years. Any halfway competent and ambitious coach should be champing at the bit to take over and make things better.

Puja

Puja wrote:

francoisfou wrote:

Puja wrote:
I'm interested to see who Eddie rebuilds his team with after losing everybody but Mitchell. I wouldn't mind seeing Vesty get tapped for attack, but I've got no idea who would be my favourite for forwards coach.

Puja

Borthwick's still there, as he's maybe not yet made up his mind to go to the bottom club (but one, now!) in the Premiership.

If he's got any ambitions for future advancements, he should be leaping on the job. It's a squad with 6 England RWC players, alongside the likes of Lavanini and Veainu, coupled with the biggest revenue stream in the Prem and a rep that still lets them attract players like Taufua when finishing 11th. That's not to mention the crop of U18s that are going to be coming through in the next few years. Any halfway competent and ambitious coach should be champing at the bit to take over and make things better.

Puja

If he can do the job he wants sure. But if he's being given obstacles around things like the coaching team he wants, around how training should work, around what players will be retained... he might reasonably conclude it's not the right position for him

From what I gather the deal between him and Tigers is done and it’s a case of RFU and Tigers agreeing to a thing for early release.

Again that 2nd band info though so who knows.

Digby wrote:

Puja wrote:

francoisfou wrote:
Borthwick's still there, as he's maybe not yet made up his mind to go to the bottom club (but one, now!) in the Premiership.

If he's got any ambitions for future advancements, he should be leaping on the job. It's a squad with 6 England RWC players, alongside the likes of Lavanini and Veainu, coupled with the biggest revenue stream in the Prem and a rep that still lets them attract players like Taufua when finishing 11th. That's not to mention the crop of U18s that are going to be coming through in the next few years. Any halfway competent and ambitious coach should be champing at the bit to take over and make things better.

Puja

If he can do the job he wants sure. But if he's being given obstacles around things like the coaching team he wants, around how training should work, around what players will be retained... he might reasonably conclude it's not the right position for him

Good point. Leicester's a plum job... except for the board as things stand.

Hopefully they're going to appoint him, give him whatever the hell he wants, and stay out of his way.

Tigersman wrote:From what I gather the deal between him and Tigers is done and it’s a case of RFU and Tigers agreeing to a thing for early release.

Again that 2nd band info though so who knows.

Excellent news.

Puja