6 Nations 2020

[Mellsblue]

All the talk is Lawes at 6.

[Stom]

All the talk is Lawes at 6.

With Hill at 7 and Itoje at 8?

[jngf]

Marchand and Mauvaka are really good young players...but only 3 caps between them! Just looking through the French squad now, and genuinely shocked at the lack of experience in the tight 5.

How’s Demba Bamba developing, as he really struggled in the scrum last 6N’s?

I think they've just made the decision to skip straight to the next generation, which is pretty wise long-term, but could leave them vulnerable this 6N. They do worry me for 2023.

Puja

Yes, but just looking from afar seems maybe that while their backrow and backline look test ready despite age/experience, tight 5 not quite up to that mark yet.

I’m really not a fan of either Willemse or Taofifenua and if Bamba is starting tight head then I think they might struggle a bit in the tight. This weekends game should be really interesting.

Willemse and Taofifenua do have the advantage of ballast (both 19 stone +) whereas we’ve lost our heaviest forward and risk fielding an undersized lock and back row combo

[jngf]

All the talk is Lawes at 6.

Lawes is a great carrying impact 6 but not so keen on him as a back row starter and have doubts he’s got the engine and mobility to play like a more specialist grafting 6 ( similar reservations about Itoje in this context).

Just watch Jones stick Lawes at 8 just for the hell of it

[Puja]

All the talk is Lawes at 6.

Lawes is a great carrying impact 6 but not so keen on him as a back row starter and have doubts he’s got the engine and mobility to play like a more specialist grafting 6 ( similar reservations about Itoje in this context).

Just watch Jones stick Lawes at 8 just for the hell of it

Seconded. Even if we're playing two sevens, I don't see it making up for the loss to the breakdown cause by picking three locks. It never works at international level for England, it never has worked, and very likely never will work. Eddie needs to give up the dream and start training up Ted Hill if he wants a PSdT clone.

Puja

[Oakboy]

The lock at 6 bit is a reasonable option for later in the game. Apart from that, with a positive glut of quick backrowers available, why go that route? And, if you do, why the hell is it not Simmonds at 8?

[Mellsblue]

All the talk is Lawes at 6.

With Hill at 7 and Itoje at 8?

That’s the dream.

[Banquo]

All the talk is Lawes at 6.

Lawes is a great carrying impact 6 but not so keen on him as a back row starter and have doubts he’s got the engine and mobility to play like a more specialist grafting 6 ( similar reservations about Itoje in this context).

Just watch Jones stick Lawes at 8 just for the hell of it

He really isnt a ‘great carrying’ player at all. And hes a mediocre 6 all round. If he plays there, more about the lineout than anything I’d think. This experiment has failed already.

[Banquo]

The lock at 6 bit is a reasonable option for later in the game. Apart from that, with a positive glut of quick backrowers available, why go that route? And, if you do, why the hell is it not Simmonds at 8?

Because he’s seen Simmonds up close, started him as an 8 before and doesn’t like the look of him there? Once again, as Scrumhead has said, Chiefs tend to put players who play more like open sides at 8.

[Oakboy]

The lock at 6 bit is a reasonable option for later in the game. Apart from that, with a positive glut of quick backrowers available, why go that route? And, if you do, why the hell is it not Simmonds at 8?

Because he’s seen Simmonds up close, started him as an 8 before and doesn’t like the look of him there? Once again, as Scrumhead has said, Chiefs tend to put players who play more like open sides at 8.

Ah, we've done this before. I accept that but IF Lawes is at 6, Jones will be playing an open side at 8 who has never done the job before. I still just don't get how Underhill or Curry can be one step ahead of Simmonds who HAS done the job before. As a matter of interest, did Simmonds get rejected ever or did he lose his place through injury? Your memory is always better than mine but I thought it was the latter and until that point he was in favour.

[Banquo]

The lock at 6 bit is a reasonable option for later in the game. Apart from that, with a positive glut of quick backrowers available, why go that route? And, if you do, why the hell is it not Simmonds at 8?

Because he’s seen Simmonds up close, started him as an 8 before and doesn’t like the look of him there? Once again, as Scrumhead has said, Chiefs tend to put players who play more like open sides at 8.

Ah, we've done this before. I accept that but IF Lawes is at 6, Jones will be playing an open side at 8 who has never done the job before. I still just don't get how Underhill or Curry can be one step ahead of Simmonds who HAS done the job before. As a matter of interest, did Simmonds get rejected ever or did he lose his place through injury? Your memory is always better than mine but I thought it was the latter and until that point he was in favour.

He was dropped iirc, though you are right about him being injured too

[Scrumhead]

As I recall, he was called up as a bit of a last resort and then did well getting MoM vs. Samoa and following it up with some decent 6Ns performances including two tries. Then we played Wales and he got a bit found out as an 8 - specifically struggling to control the ball on a couple of occasions at the base of a scrum that was second best. It definitely wasn’t solely his fault, but it did illustrate that his skill set as an 8 outside of the Exeter system was a bit exposed.

That said, he’d definitely done well enough to keep his spot and possibly would have done if injury hadn’t intervened.

My overall feeling on Simmonds is that he is definitely good enough for test rugby but probably not as an 8, which then begs the question of whether he’s better than Underhill, Curry, Ludlam or Earl, which I’m not fully convinced he is.

[Banquo]

As I recall, he was called up as a bit of a last resort and then did well getting MoM vs. Samoa and following it up with some decent 6Ns performances including two tries. Then we played Wales and he got a bit found out as an 8 - specifically struggling to control the ball on a couple of occasions at the base of a scrum that was second best. It definitely wasn’t solely his fault, but it did illustrate that his skill set as an 8 outside of the Exeter system was a bit exposed.

That said, he’d definitely done well enough to keep his spot and possibly would have done if injury hadn’t intervened.

My overall feeling on Simmonds is that he is definitely good enough for test rugby but probably not as an 8, which then begs the question of whether he’s better than Underhill, Curry, Ludlam or Earl, which he quite possibly isn’t.

Good spot- I do remember him falling out of favour though after some starts; he started getting knocked back in tackles when carrying in close. I think your pecking order point is well made. You could chuck Willis into that mix, though slightly different style to say Curry.

[Raggs]

I don't recall Samoa. I remember Italy where he failed to make yards with a run up at a backline. Then scored two tries late on when Italy were fading.

[jngf]

All the talk is Lawes at 6.

Lawes is a great carrying impact 6 but not so keen on him as a back row starter and have doubts he’s got the engine and mobility to play like a more specialist grafting 6 ( similar reservations about Itoje in this context).

Just watch Jones stick Lawes at 8 just for the hell of it

He really isnt a ‘great carrying’ player at all. And hes a mediocre 6 all round. If he plays there, more about the lineout than anything I’d think. This experiment has failed already.

Lawns’ carrying and for that matter Itoje’s did used to be barely existant at test level but I’ve seen both make great strides in this area over the past couple of reasons. That said they’re never going to have the energy or mobility of a Wilson/Robshaw/Ludlum/Curry about the park. It may be a low bar but Lawes’ outings at 6 have convinced me far more than Itoje’s but everybody knows where I’d like the latter to play

[Stom]

Look, if we have Lawes at 6, Simmonds at 8 won't make any difference, we'll still get mullered at the breakdown.

We need to stop this. It's ridiculous. Lawes is not an international 6. He is ponderous as a backrow forward, his ruck work is not good enough, and his carrying is that of a lock, not a flanker.

In other words...HE'S A LOCK!

I think it's madness we've not selected an 8, but with the options available, it just made/makes the most sense to pick Curry, Underhill, Earl.

[Stom]

Lawes is a great carrying impact 6 but not so keen on him as a back row starter and have doubts he’s got the engine and mobility to play like a more specialist grafting 6 ( similar reservations about Itoje in this context).

Just watch Jones stick Lawes at 8 just for the hell of it

He really isnt a ‘great carrying’ player at all. And hes a mediocre 6 all round. If he plays there, more about the lineout than anything I’d think. This experiment has failed already.

Lawns’ carrying and for that matter Itoje’s did used to be barely existant at test level but I’ve seen both make great strides in this area over the past couple of reasons. That said their never going to have the energy or mobility of a Wilson/Robshaw/Ludlum/Curry about the park. It may be a low bar but Lawes’ outings at 6 have convinced me far more than Itoje’s but everybody knows where I’d like the latter to play

Itoje hasn't played 6. He's worn the shirt #, but Lawes packed down on the flank and Itoje was at lock.

[Scrumhead]

I don't recall Samoa. I remember Italy where he failed to make yards with a run up at a backline. Then scored two tries late on when Italy were fading.

I was at the Samoa game which is maybe why it’s stuck in my mind a little more. Without looking it up, I seem to remember us playing Lawes, Robshaw and Simmonds as our back row and unsurprisingly got done over at the breakdown. Simmonds made shedloads of tackles and worked his ass off trying to stem the tide at the breakdown.

[Banquo]

Lawes is a great carrying impact 6 but not so keen on him as a back row starter and have doubts he’s got the engine and mobility to play like a more specialist grafting 6 ( similar reservations about Itoje in this context).

Just watch Jones stick Lawes at 8 just for the hell of it

He really isnt a ‘great carrying’ player at all. And hes a mediocre 6 all round. If he plays there, more about the lineout than anything I’d think. This experiment has failed already.

Lawns’ carrying and for that matter Itoje’s did used to be barely existant at test level but I’ve seen both make great strides in this area over the past couple of reasons. That said they’re never going to have the energy or mobility of a Wilson/Robshaw/Ludlum/Curry about the park. It may be a low bar but Lawes’ outings at 6 have convinced me far more than Itoje’s but everybody knows where I’d like the latter to play

Lawes may have slightly improved his carrying but it was from a low base. He isn’t a ‘great carrier’ even at club level. His handling is also pretty average. Top notch lock despite this, average 6.

[Banquo]

I don't recall Samoa. I remember Italy where he failed to make yards with a run up at a backline. Then scored two tries late on when Italy were fading.

Yep

[jngf]

I don't recall Samoa. I remember Italy where he failed to make yards with a run up at a backline. Then scored two tries late on when Italy were fading.

I was at the Samoa game which is maybe why it’s stuck in my mind a little more. Without looking it up, I seem to remember us playing Lawes, Robshaw and Simmonds as our back row and unsurprisingly got done over at the breakdown. Simmonds made shedloads of tackles and worked his ass off trying to stem the tide at the breakdown.

I recall Simmonds coming off the bench in an autumn test a year or so back and making something like 20 tackles. I’ve no doubts he has the pace and work rate to make a fantastic link man style openside - I do acknowledge though that in view of being played at 8 by England in his test appearances so far, his fetching skills are an unknown quantity.

[Timbo]

Simmonds was dropped for the tour of SA, then did his knee prior to the Autumn internationals.

Simmonds is up against it while Jones is in charge imo. I think Eddie has him in competition with the likes of Tom Curry, Underhill, Ludlam, Earl, Wilson etc, rather than ‘specialist’ 8’s.

[fivepointer]

What does Earl offer that Simmonds doesn't?

[Digby]

I don't recall Samoa. I remember Italy where he failed to make yards with a run up at a backline. Then scored two tries late on when Italy were fading.

I was at the Samoa game which is maybe why it’s stuck in my mind a little more. Without looking it up, I seem to remember us playing Lawes, Robshaw and Simmonds as our back row and unsurprisingly got done over at the breakdown. Simmonds made shedloads of tackles and worked his ass off trying to stem the tide at the breakdown.

I recall Simmonds coming off the bench in an autumn test a year or so back and making something like 20 tackles. I’ve no doubts he has the pace and work rate to make a fantastic link man style openside - I do acknowledge though that in view of being played at 8 by England in his test appearances so far, his fetching skills are an unknown quantity.

None of that speaks to his main problem playing 7 which is to protect 2nd phase ball. I don't like the expression, but you've got to survive the clearout. After that comes his left shoulder tackle breaking off the scrum (somewhere above it's noted the Chiefs have signed Hinkley from Glaws, and he keeps making right shoulder tackles when I see him, though he has time to learn, but it can be a problem)

[Oakboy]

Ah, it's all opinion and perception. Ignoring the lumps, Billy V, Dombrandt and Hughes, I'd rank the back rowers something like:

Tom Curry, Willis, Simmonds, Underhill, Wilson, Earl, Hill, Ben Curry, Ludlam.

Jones thinks differently. He's right until he's wrong, as ever. Win and he's right. Lose and he's wrong. In terms of long-term construction, I think he's a disaster waiting to happen but what the hell.